50nl newbie - two big pots

splashies

I thought i'd dabble at 50nl last night to see how i got on.

Here are the two biggest pots i played and would be interested to see what people think i should do.

Only have limited reads as this is the first time i have played at this level on sky.

Hand 1. Note on villain "called 5x raise pre OOP with QJo". When they flat on flop i put them on either QJ or a flush draw. Their turn C/R shows massive strength. What would you do in my shoes now?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
welp	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£47.28
Goingbust2	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£73.36
elainel	Big blind		£0.50	£1.25	£8.50
	Your hole cards	K 10
daniello36	Fold
splashies	Raise		£2.00	£3.25	£45.00
elainel	Fold
cottlad	Call		£2.00	£5.25	£65.02
welp	Call		£1.75	£7.00	£45.53
Goingbust2	Fold
Flop
		3 K 10
welp	Check
splashies	Bet		£4.00	£11.00	£41.00
cottlad	Fold
welp	Call		£4.00	£15.00	£41.53
Turn
		8
welp	Check
splashies	Bet		£11.50	£26.50	£29.50
welp	Raise		£23.00	£49.50	£18.53
splashies

Hand 2. Villain here I haven't played before but we all know is a winning player. Have I played the hand ok preflop so far? Would you call the all-in?

He dwelt a lot before shoving all his chips in, my initial thoughts were maybe he had JJ or AK. How many times do i walk into AA or KK?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
hurst05	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£49.25
splashies	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£47.17
	Your hole cards	Q Q
keeny	Raise		£2.00	£2.75	£48.44
curtis87	Fold
stevew44	Fold
hurst05	Raise		£6.25	£9.00	£43.00
splashies	Raise		£19.50	£28.50	£27.67
keeny	Fold
hurst05	All-in		£43.00	£71.50	£0.00
splashies

DOHHHHHHH

Hand 1 is fine if you snap shove.

Hand 2 also fine if you snap it off. It's similar to a hand on the poker clinic last night. Have a look for the repeat on 865, it's Frazer and Hartigan going over it. A guy 4bets queens like you did then considers passing to the shove 100xbb deep. Just can't 4bet fold for 2/5 of ur stack.

Haven't played Hurst for ages but I'd imagine his range here isn't as nitty as AA/KK/AK only. Which makes your 4 bet fine, obviously for value, therefore you can't fold to his 5bet.

Will reply to ur PM in a bit.

N1CK

hand 1 i would only really be worried about set of 3s so easy decision there imo
would 4 bet smaller hand two he aint got much room as it is so prolly min it and call it off and hit the queen lol

splashies

Thanks you two. Il post the outcomes tonight when i get in from work.

LOL_RAISE

4bet size is way too big in hand2, you have to call it off but he should probably fold AK to your 4bet with no history between you two

grantorino

1. I would fold pre, bet flop bigger, call now

2. Dont ever even consider 4b/f QQ this deep, especially not after putting in 40% of your stack. I'm not always 4betting though, if villains are competent and there is no unusual dynamic someone 3betting an UTG raise is usually pretty strong. If you do 4bet make it smaller, close to a minraise, but never 4bet unless you are happy getting it in

N1CK

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

1. I would fold pre, bet flop bigger, call now 2. Dont ever even consider 4b/f QQ this deep, especially not after putting in 40% of your stack. I'm not always 4betting though, if villains are competent and there is no unusual dynamic someone 3betting an UTG raise is usually pretty strong. If you do 4bet make it smaller, close to a minraise, but never 4bet unless you are happy getting it in
Posted by grantorino

NIT

i wouldnt say its necessarily strong unless utg is a complete Nit, ranges can be fairly wide utg nl50 what makes it look stronger is that he in the SB

scotty77

hand 1 get it in.  only 1 hand beating us really.

hand 2 is tricky.  we 4bet too mcuh really to fold.  like 4bet to like 13ish and we can do a fold i dont think we can do a fold now tho.

grantorino

yeah it depends obv, but people dont usually 3bet utg raises light too often, and utg continuing range if we 4bet has us crushed  (from my experience of 50NL, wasnt here though). SB 3bet is usually air or a monster with tag villains, cause utg continuing range when 3bet from these positions is usually pretty narrow

yeah I'm a nit, hate playing KTo oop though

N1CK

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

yeah it depends obv, but people dont usually 3bet utg raises light too often, and utg continuing range if we 4bet has us crushed  (from my experience of 50NL, wasnt here though). SB 3bet is usually air or a monster with tag villains, cause utg continuing range when 3bet from these positions is usually pretty narrow yeah I'm a nit, hate playing KTo oop though
Posted by grantorino

 yeah it does so does sb con range, it a pretty horrible spot coz when we 4 bet we fold all hands we beat and get action from basically KK AA, BY 4betting the min can he not shove worse hands sometimes?

if you 3bet an utg from the sb there are a few hands that can flat?

also you say you dont always 4bet here.....fold? calling cant be good as it prolly goes 3way and we can lose some or little equity that we have?

splashies

Ok I'm really pleased with all your replies. Hand 1 plays itself although i agree i could have folded pre.

Hand 2 i agree that i 4-bet too big here and theres no way i can fold now.

Here are the outcomes........

Hand 1.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
welp	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£47.28
Goingbust2	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£73.36
elainel	Big blind		£0.50	£1.25	£8.50
	Your hole cards	K 10
daniello36	Fold
splashies	Raise		£2.00	£3.25	£45.00
elainel	Fold
cottlad	Call		£2.00	£5.25	£65.02
welp	Call		£1.75	£7.00	£45.53
Goingbust2	Fold
Flop
		3 K 10
welp	Check
splashies	Bet		£4.00	£11.00	£41.00
cottlad	Fold
welp	Call		£4.00	£15.00	£41.53
Turn
		8
welp	Check
splashies	Bet		£11.50	£26.50	£29.50
welp	Raise		£23.00	£49.50	£18.53
splashies	All-in		£29.50	£79.00	£0.00
welp	All-in		£18.53	£97.53	£0.00
welp	Unmatched bet		£0.53	£97.00	£0.53
welp	Show	3 3
splashies	Show	K 10
River
		A
welp	Win	Three 3s	£95.20		£95.73

Hand 2

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
hurst05	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£49.25
splashies	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£47.17
	Your hole cards	Q Q
keeny	Raise		£2.00	£2.75	£48.44
curtis87	Fold
stevew44	Fold
hurst05	Raise		£6.25	£9.00	£43.00
splashies	Raise		£19.50	£28.50	£27.67
keeny	Fold
hurst05	All-in		£43.00	£71.50	£0.00
splashies	All-in		£27.67	£99.17	£0.00
hurst05	Unmatched bet		£1.83	£97.34	£1.83
hurst05	Show	10 10
splashies	Show	Q Q
Flop
		2 9 8
Turn
		5
River
		3
splashies	Win	Pair of Queens	£95.54		£95.54

pryce6

*shakes head at hurst*

hurst05

fwiw i dont like the cold 4bet, its QQ+ i was tilty and fold 10's everytime usually. especially vs someone i havent played before and i know this is the highest youve played cash before, correct me if im wrong. tilty jam by me. nh sir.

DOHHHHHHH

Post will prob earn hurst 20xbuy ins in the long run.

hurst05

just bad play innit. remember this hand well. its obvious he has QQ/KK/AA, im basically like plz have AK lol

N1CK

i have a feeling this thread will turn into a burn........

fwiw i feel posting the results could be construed as a pretty sick rub

splashies

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

fwiw i dont like the cold 4bet, i was tilty and fold 10's everytime usually. especially vs someone i havent played before and i know this is the highest youve played cash before, correct me if im wrong. tilty jam by me. nh sir.
Posted by hurst05

Yeh its the first time on sky i have played this high. I used to play these levels elsewhere but not for two years or so. Just trying to get back into it again. Probably see you around these next few weeks. Gl mate.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

hand 1 get it in.  only 1 hand beating us really. hand 2 is tricky.  we 4bet too mcuh really to fold.  like 4bet to like 13ish and we can do a fold i dont think we can do a fold now tho.
Posted by scotty77

if we arent calling a shove we shouldnt 4bet in first place really

N1CK

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots : if we arent calling a shove we shouldnt 4bet in first place really
Posted by LOL_RAISE

could you 4bet air here vs two good players or is that spew vs their ranges?

splashies

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

i have a feeling this thread will turn into a burn........ fwiw i feel posting the results could be construed as a pretty sick rub
Posted by N1CK

I hope hurst you don't feel this way. I posted it to see how people thought I played the hand. I posted the results for the people who gave their time and opinions to comment on the hand.

P.S If the villain was dohhhhhhh then it would most def have been a rubdown. =P

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots:

In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots : could you 4bet air here vs two good players or is that spew vs their ranges?
Posted by N1CK

yeah i meant when we have QQ specifically, we could 4bet bluff but i think its not profitable because its utg open