4b/folding is by far the worst option imo Posted by yb
Even readless other than 'player is solid,' when our 4bet is a cold 4bet and the villain has shoved on us? Playing as shallow as we are here I admit it's close between 4b/f and 4b/c but we are so rarely in decent shape.
But as I stated, with session reads in this spot it's a call.
Some great posts here RE QQ hand. Obv in this case i have 4-bet too big so i have to call. But the debate in general is fascinating and i guess it shows there is a fine line between what is + or - EV.
Nick, utg opening range may not be that tight, but his continuing range after being 3bet is generally very tight, hence SB 3bet value range is narrow (and he very rarely bluffs against utg). Obv I'm generalising here, but this is what I would expect of decent 50NL tags
Tommy D, 4b/f might be more +EV than 4b/c, but if so the fact we have QQ doesnt matter, we are turning 3rd nuts into a bluff which sounds pretty bad to me when no better hand ever folds
Nick, utg opening range may not be that tight, but his continuing range after being 3bet is generally very tight, hence SB 3bet value range is narrow (and he very rarely bluffs against utg). Obv I'm generalising here, but this is what I would expect of decent 50NL tags Tommy D, 4b/f might be more +EV than 4b/c, but if so the fact we have QQ doesnt matter, we are turning 3rd nuts into a bluff which sounds pretty bad to me when no better hand ever folds Posted by grantorino
Conversely with the situation as set out in the OP but with a smaller 4bet size by calling the shove we are turning 3rd nuts into a bluff catcher as his range is polarised to KK+ and bluffs. That's not exactly great either with the conditions as laid out in the OP.
In Response to Re: 50nl newbie - two big pots : Conversely with the situation as set out in the OP but with a smaller 4bet size by calling the shove we are turning 3rd nuts into a bluff catcher as his range is polarised to KK+ and bluffs. That's not exactly great either with the conditions as laid out in the OP. Posted by TommyD
fwiw after i said i think fold/call is close a page back i realised that calling is prob way better but i cba to change it. i dont like 4betting here with QQ at all, were gonna be ip against the 3better postflop and oop to a guy who is going to play super straight forward (i.e setmine pairs call big cards and 4bet KK+)
fwiw after i said i think fold/call is close a page back i realised that calling is prob way better but i cba to change it. i dont like 4betting here with QQ at all, were gonna be ip against the 3better postflop and oop to a guy who is going to play super straight forward (i.e setmine pairs call big cards and 4bet KK+) Posted by LOL_RAISE
yeah this is want i wanted to hear also the sb is never really going to get out of line with us and utg behind, but if utg gets out of the way the sb will have to turn all of his range that we beat into a bluff on high flop boards because are hand should be pretty face up to him if we just flat pre....thoughts??
Comments
Some great posts here RE QQ hand. Obv in this case i have 4-bet too big so i have to call. But the debate in general is fascinating and i guess it shows there is a fine line between what is + or - EV.
Tommy D, 4b/f might be more +EV than 4b/c, but if so the fact we have QQ doesnt matter, we are turning 3rd nuts into a bluff which sounds pretty bad to me when no better hand ever folds