In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : why more pre? coz two limpers and im oop? would you not bet flop? i expected to have the best hand and i expected him to call with worse lol Posted by N1CK
Your raise isn't really acheiving anything other then pot building. Depending on the table dynamics id prob make 28p to filter out any 2 merchants and charge the limpers, it may not get rid of any 2 but still its making them pay to hit if that makes sense??
I dont like standard c bet at nl4 as generally you will get called a) either miles behind, b) by draws c) in hope they get lucky so i would be happier to check/call or even check/fold given my read on my opponent. What do you do if your opponent re-raises on flop? or shoves all in? for pot control i prefer check/call if you still feel your Ace & Queen is good
I cant really comment on other hands at mo as busy at work
I went back to delete this pos, it was only meant to pay you back a little and I hoped you might bite
Serious comment though: I believe now, and have always believed that playing this level is detrimental to any skillful players game. HEAR ME OUT.
Your not playing against people who are thinking logically in the main. Players who dont understand position, equity or odds. They wont fold draws, or allow you to make skillful creative play, that a co erced table image will allow. It just seems to me that when you balance off the time your hand holds against the insanity where you lose to outdraws in multi way pots it cant be worth it.
I dont doubt you have a good game. But I think the way a person must adapt their game to win at this level would in fact instill habits that would be harmful at the higher levels.
I'm fully prepared to be wrong, as I have said frequently my online cash sucks a/s's. But I crush live (mostly). This is just the way I have always seen it.
I went back to delete this pos, it was only meant to pay you back a little and I hoped you might bite Serious comment though: I believe now, and have always believed that playing this level is detrimental to any skillful players game. HEAR ME OUT. Your not playing against people who are thinking logically in the main. Players who dont understand position, equity or odds. They wont fold draws, or allow you to make skillful creative play, that a co erced table image will allow. It just seems to me that when you balance off the time your hand holds against the insanity where you lose to outdraws in multi way pots it cant be worth it. I dont doubt you have a good game. But I think the way a person must adapt their game to win at this level would in fact instill habits that would be harmful at the higher levels. I'm fully prepared to be wrong, as I have said frequently my online cash sucks a/s's. But I crush live (mostly). This is just the way I have always seen it. Posted by AMYBR
i agree with this to an extent, there is too many bad habits to be picked up here, and it is not a level to try any fancy plays, strictly abc stuff, altho its still there to be beat
I went back to delete this pos, it was only meant to pay you back a little and I hoped you might bite Serious comment though: I believe now, and have always believed that playing this level is detrimental to any skillful players game. HEAR ME OUT. Your not playing against people who are thinking logically in the main. Players who dont understand position, equity or odds. They wont fold draws, or allow you to make skillful creative play, that a co erced table image will allow. It just seems to me that when you balance off the time your hand holds against the insanity where you lose to outdraws in multi way pots it cant be worth it. I dont doubt you have a good game. But I think the way a person must adapt their game to win at this level would in fact instill habits that would be harmful at the higher levels. I'm fully prepared to be wrong, as I have said frequently my online cash sucks a/s's. But I crush live (mostly). This is just the way I have always seen it. Posted by AMYBR
Its wierd but alot of people assume table selection is unimportant at NL4 as you have alot of fish at everytable.
However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced.
My personal preference is to find a table with 1 or 2 other 4nl regs and 3 calling stations. Between the regs the calling stations get torn apart, inevitably leave busto. Then you normally have other people come and try their luck as they see some big stacks and want a cut of the action. It also means you know there are 2 other players that you can be a little bit more creative with, and stops you getting too bored.
That said you DO want these awful players there, you know your ahead alot of the time, and just have to suck it up when Your AK vs their K5 gets beat by a 5 on the river......I dont care too much. Reload, get it back.
Of course eventually other regs sit down and there are not enough fish to go round.....I then get up and leave.....unless im really enjoying the action and dont mind risking my winnings.
In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : Its wierd but alot of people assume table selection is unimportant at NL4 as you have alot of fish at everytable. However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced. My personal preference is to find a table with 1 or 2 other 4nl regs and 3 calling stations. Between the regs the calling stations get torn apart, inevitably leave busto. Then you normally have other people come and try their luck as they see some big stacks and want a cut of the action. It also means you know there are 2 other players that you can be a little bit more creative with, and stops you getting too bored. That said you DO want these awful players there, you know your ahead alot of the time, and just have to suck it up when Your AK vs their K5 gets beat by a 5 on the river......I dont care too much. Reload, get it back. Of course eventually other regs sit down and there are not enough fish to go round.....I then get up and leave.....unless im really enjoying the action and dont mind risking my winnings. Posted by tapeworm
I could almost agree with you. I usually look for just one reg though. I have a list of 3 or 4 regs who ill happily sit with. Sometimes this also means some banter in the chatbox. This is one great thing about a bad beat at NL4 is the banter can help you forget about it quickly.
However i would say table selection at NL4 is less important at NL4 than at those higher levels. I usually look for decent stacks with a known fish in amoungst. Although since on the whole their 90% fish im kool playing 5 randoms if they all have 50BB or more.
However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced.
No it doesn't. Being at a table with 5 people who are poor players is the best kind of table. Players like Durrr/Good2CU/Raptor/Feldman built their multi-million pound rolls in the pre 2006 games where the fish to shark ratio was 5:1.
People who say they are too good to beat poor players are fish themselves. Adapt to the table.
And Don like I said before, get some more money in and just grind. You are wasting time with all these posts. You must have been doing the same kind of hands here for at least a year now. If you can't beat nl4 comfortably by now then you should seriously think of quitting. Don't play MTTs. Try and get 100£ into your account so you have a decent roll for nl4 then follow the roll advice that Doh posted the other day. That is all you need to succeed is to follow that one post.
Sorry if that comes across as a bit harsh but I remember your videos and on the whole they seemed to be very solid and you should def be a nl10/nl20 reg and comfortably rolled for it by now. You like to overanalyse things/overcomplicate things.
You should have all the skills now to seriously grind and build a roll. SO DO IT. Don't withdraw. Don't take shots at MTTs you aren't rolled for. If you fancy a MTT day then stick to the ones in your roll plus the odd sat or two.
If you can put in 100£, multitable and get 6 hours in per day I see no reason at all why you can't have at least a grand in your account by the end of June. Once you hit that figure you can then start taking out a bit a week to save/enjoy life with.
Follows Doh's post to the letter. And I rarely say that lol.
However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced. No it doesn't. Being at a table with 5 people who are poor players is the best kind of table. Players like Durrr/Good2CU/Raptor/Feldman built their multi-million pound rolls in the pre 2006 games where the fish to shark ratio was 5:1. People who say they are too good to beat poor players are fish themselves. Adapt to the table. And Don like I said before, get some more money in and just grind. You are wasting time with all these posts. You must have been doing the same kind of hands here for at least a year now. If you can't beat nl4 comfortably by now then you should seriously think of quitting. Don't play MTTs. Try and get 100£ into your account so you have a decent roll for nl4 then follow the roll advice that Doh posted the other day. That is all you need to succeed is to follow that one post. Posted by scotty77
Scotty your talking about chalk and cheese. Those player they were playiong at were not sat a 4nl table were they - they would have had more experience than your average 4nl player and been able to fold etc. Im not saying you dont want these players at your table - I just prefer not to have 5 of them and go into each hand 3 or 4 handed. What everyone else prefers is up to them.
Im not saying I am to good to beat poor players either - if it came over that way then that isnt what I intended.
In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : Scotty your talking about chalk and cheese. Those player they were playiong at were not sat a 4nl table were they - they would have had more experience than your average 4nl player and been able to fold etc. Im not saying you dont want these players at your table - I just prefer not to have 5 of them and go into each hand 3 or 4 handed. What everyone else prefers is up to them. Im not saying I am to good to beat poor players either - if it came over that way then that isnt what I intended. Posted by tapeworm
Durr/Feldman/Townsend all started at 10c/20c IIRC. Feldman def started at like $5 sNGs. But back then the average nl1000 player was really no different from the average nl10 player..
Seriously pre 2006 the games were mainly all like nl4 on Sky, no matter what the limit.
Was pretty much expecting to be attacked for that post
I really do think that on the whole, excluding my donut self, there are some pretty good poker minds in this forum. If your going to be SAP (serious about poker) as you all seem to be, why play 2/4p. If you can crack it GREAT! But the real question for me is it WORTH cracking?
If your confident in your game why not chuck down a few hundred quid and at lest play 10/20p. You'll be getting a more realistic sense of the game and the gains will be more meaningful. On a risk reward basis you may aswell play two £3 DYM's than 1hr @ 2p/4p, I'd of thought.
On the table selection issue: online this is something that I've always been dumb with. Mostly I dont do it, I go to the highest AVG table. Live I've scouted the softest games/nights around, 50p/£1 + £1/£2 + £2/£4, occassionaly higher. So in my clinic threads where I'm talking about idiots at the table I really mean it, putting 100's of BB in on a wing and a prayer. So Table selection is very important.
But I promise you, there are alot of games out there at 50p/£1 live that your 2p/4p game would crush.
I guess i just conceded the onlinve vs live cash argument again
Sorry if that comes across as a bit harsh but I remember your videos and on the whole they seemed to be very solid and you should def be a nl10/nl20 reg and comfortably rolled for it by now. You like to overanalyse things/overcomplicate things. You should have all the skills now to seriously grind and build a roll. SO DO IT. Don't withdraw. Don't take shots at MTTs you aren't rolled for. If you fancy a MTT day then stick to the ones in your roll plus the odd sat or two. If you can put in 100£, multitable and get 6 hours in per day I see no reason at all why you can't have at least a grand in your account by the end of June. Once you hit that figure you can then start taking out a bit a week to save/enjoy life with. Follows Doh's post to the letter. And I rarely say that lol. Posted by scotty77
Just read between dyms.
It doesnt sound harsh at all mate. I know i should be playing higher, and infact i need to stop going off the rails. I think ive played higher and i never felt out of my depth, i just need to get there quit tilting and acting like a baby girl when i take a few bad beats.
Your right i do over complicate and analyse things to much and need more motovation.
In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : Just read between dyms. It doesnt sound harsh at all mate. I know i should be playing higher, and infact i need to stop going off the rails. I think ive played higher and i never felt out of my depth, i just need to get there quit tilting and acting like a baby girl when i take a few bad beats. Your right i do over complicate and analyse things to much and need more motovation. I really do need a good hard kick up the rear. Posted by The_Don90
You could have played 20 hands of 4nl whilst writing this post!
Just from someone who played 4NL for a bit Scotty is 100% correct. The game down there is all about betting your big hands MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE, if you do that everytime you flop the nuts, a set, TPGK you'll win a lot, it's as simple as that.
Likewise when you don't hit your hand DO NOT **** BLUFF !! (sensible c-bets are ok but do it sparingly as any pair will ususally call you down)
Big hands = Big bet
Bad hands = Check/Fold or check/call if right price
Only problem I got was the tilt it induces sometimes but found taking a half hour break gets it out your system quite quickly.
Just from someone who played 4NL for a bit Scotty is 100% correct. The game down there is all about betting your big hands MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE , if you do that everytime you flop the nuts, a set, TPGK you'll win a lot, it's as simple as that. Likewise when you don't hit your hand DO NOT **** BLUFF !! (sensible c-bets are ok but do it sparingly as any pair will ususally call you down) Big hands = Big bet Bad hands = Check/Fold or check/call if right price Only problem I got was the tilt it induces sometimes but found taking a half hour break gets it out your system quite quickly. Posted by Dudeskin8
this is spot on, couldnt say it better myself,
just had another good hour, double my balance and then some in 1 hour, £17 to £37, some examples to follow
Comments
I dont like standard c bet at nl4 as generally you will get called a) either miles behind, b) by draws c) in hope they get lucky so i would be happier to check/call or even check/fold given my read on my opponent. What do you do if your opponent re-raises on flop? or shoves all in? for pot control i prefer check/call if you still feel your Ace & Queen is good
I cant really comment on other hands at mo as busy at work
Serious comment though: I believe now, and have always believed that playing this level is detrimental to any skillful players game. HEAR ME OUT.
Your not playing against people who are thinking logically in the main. Players who dont understand position, equity or odds. They wont fold draws, or allow you to make skillful creative play, that a co erced table image will allow. It just seems to me that when you balance off the time your hand holds against the insanity where you lose to outdraws in multi way pots it cant be worth it.
I dont doubt you have a good game. But I think the way a person must adapt their game to win at this level would in fact instill habits that would be harmful at the higher levels.
I'm fully prepared to be wrong, as I have said frequently my online cash sucks a/s's. But I crush live (mostly). This is just the way I have always seen it.
However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced.
My personal preference is to find a table with 1 or 2 other 4nl regs and 3 calling stations. Between the regs the calling stations get torn apart, inevitably leave busto. Then you normally have other people come and try their luck as they see some big stacks and want a cut of the action. It also means you know there are 2 other players that you can be a little bit more creative with, and stops you getting too bored.
That said you DO want these awful players there, you know your ahead alot of the time, and just have to suck it up when Your AK vs their K5 gets beat by a 5 on the river......I dont care too much. Reload, get it back.
Of course eventually other regs sit down and there are not enough fish to go round.....I then get up and leave.....unless im really enjoying the action and dont mind risking my winnings.
However i would say table selection at NL4 is less important at NL4 than at those higher levels. I usually look for decent stacks with a known fish in amoungst. Although since on the whole their 90% fish im kool playing 5 randoms if they all have 50BB or more.
I tried sitting down at the 4nl 10 max tables the other night.......Oh my god. SUPER TILT!!!! It was like playing facebook poker it was that bad.
Raise 5 x BB? 5 callers
Raise 6 x BB 5 callers
Raise........in fact sod this im off!!!
It was like me vs 5 other players.......well it was....but you know what I mean. They ganged up on me I swear!!
No it doesn't. Being at a table with 5 people who are poor players is the best kind of table. Players like Durrr/Good2CU/Raptor/Feldman built their multi-million pound rolls in the pre 2006 games where the fish to shark ratio was 5:1.
People who say they are too good to beat poor players are fish themselves. Adapt to the table.
And Don like I said before, get some more money in and just grind. You are wasting time with all these posts. You must have been doing the same kind of hands here for at least a year now. If you can't beat nl4 comfortably by now then you should seriously think of quitting. Don't play MTTs. Try and get 100£ into your account so you have a decent roll for nl4 then follow the roll advice that Doh posted the other day. That is all you need to succeed is to follow that one post.
You should have all the skills now to seriously grind and build a roll. SO DO IT. Don't withdraw. Don't take shots at MTTs you aren't rolled for. If you fancy a MTT day then stick to the ones in your roll plus the odd sat or two.
If you can put in 100£, multitable and get 6 hours in per day I see no reason at all why you can't have at least a grand in your account by the end of June. Once you hit that figure you can then start taking out a bit a week to save/enjoy life with.
Follows Doh's post to the letter. And I rarely say that lol.
Im not saying I am to good to beat poor players either - if it came over that way then that isnt what I intended.
Great 2 posts listen donald
Seriously pre 2006 the games were mainly all like nl4 on Sky, no matter what the limit.
I really do think that on the whole, excluding my donut self, there are some pretty good poker minds in this forum. If your going to be SAP (serious about poker) as you all seem to be, why play 2/4p. If you can crack it GREAT! But the real question for me is it WORTH cracking?
If your confident in your game why not chuck down a few hundred quid and at lest play 10/20p. You'll be getting a more realistic sense of the game and the gains will be more meaningful. On a risk reward basis you may aswell play two £3 DYM's than 1hr @ 2p/4p, I'd of thought.
On the table selection issue: online this is something that I've always been dumb with. Mostly I dont do it, I go to the highest AVG table. Live I've scouted the softest games/nights around, 50p/£1 + £1/£2 + £2/£4, occassionaly higher. So in my clinic threads where I'm talking about idiots at the table I really mean it, putting 100's of BB in on a wing and a prayer. So Table selection is very important.
But I promise you, there are alot of games out there at 50p/£1 live that your 2p/4p game would crush.
I guess i just conceded the onlinve vs live cash argument again
It doesnt sound harsh at all mate. I know i should be playing higher, and infact i need to stop going off the rails. I think ive played higher and i never felt out of my depth, i just need to get there quit tilting and acting like a baby girl when i take a few bad beats.
Your right i do over complicate and analyse things to much and need more motovation.
I really do need a good hard kick up the rear.
Likewise when you don't hit your hand DO NOT **** BLUFF !! (sensible c-bets are ok but do it sparingly as any pair will ususally call you down)
Big hands = Big bet
Bad hands = Check/Fold or check/call if right price
Only problem I got was the tilt it induces sometimes but found taking a half hour break gets it out your system quite quickly.
just had another good hour, double my balance and then some in 1 hour, £17 to £37, some examples to follow
im having trouble posting hands, never done it so i need help