In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Not many flops miss a range of JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK though Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Enough do dohhh , think bout it an avreage flop would contain 1 paint card and 2 non paint cards , dont forget its not that rare ya see 3 non paint cards on a flop , i just rep rep rep these kind of boards if i miss , if i hit its obv bet bet bet , these nitty regs dont like to be bullied too much if they see huge strength off an oppo , and depending on the regs style of play they will usually fold OR get very aggro with their TP and pay you off that way.
As i said in previous post unless you have a monster hand pre vs their monster hand pre pretty much this is the only way to get money offa these tighties )
Obv it dont always work but when it does its good money in the pot.
No I don't know the answer. I'm asking... How do you beat a load of rock solid nits? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Play in position and hit big as generally advocated in this thread? Interesting thinking about Durr at 20NL - his edge would be massively eroded due to the lack of fold equity at this level. If that micronit isn't going to lay down QQ whatever, then the scope of your play is massively diminished and you cards matter a lot more - does make the trips to value town all the more sweet though!
Lets look it from a OMAHA perspective, AA is not a good hand. It's all about improvers. If we take this logic and apply it to hold em then it does translate, AA has very little chance of improving unlike 56s.
Taking this onboard you can see why the nit is very exploitable.
You can narrow his or hers (Ok Debs I know woman play poker) range very easily and get stacks in very easily.
Lets look it from a OMAHA perspective, AA is not a good hand. It's all about improvers. If we take this logic and apply it to hold em then it does translate, AA has very little chance of improving unlike 56s. Taking this onboard you can see why the nit is very exploitable. You can narrow his range very easily and get stacks in very easily. Posted by rancid
Yes crack his AA with 56s but it still doesn't require a 3-bet pot, just capitialise on position when the dealer loving us.
Back to AJ, I've still not seen a convincing argument for 3-betting it at 20NL agaisnt an UTG (nitty?) reg. Yes we folding out some better hands such as small pockets and AQo but wouldn't we rather keep them in and see a flop in position so we can go about finding even more value?
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Yes crack his AA with 56s but it still doesn't require a 3-bet pot, just capitialise on position when the dealer loving us. Back to AJ, I've still not seen a convincing argument for 3-betting it at 20NL agaisnt an UTG (nitty?) reg. Yes we folding out some better hands such as small pockets and AQo but wouldn't we rather keep them in and see a flop in position so we can go about finding even more value? Posted by step7
Not talking about 3 betting with it just talking about Dohhh question on how to beat a table of nits. Anyway we can either play poker to flop lucky, outplay our oppo or not - choice is ours )
I think the whole subject of playing opposite of the table holds ground. I am currently exploring the whole concept of playing the player not the cards so for me the cards are somewhat meaningless.
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Not talking about 3 betting with it just talking about Dohhh question on how to beat a table of nits. Anyway we can either play poker to flop lucky, outplay our oppo or not - choice is ours ) I think the whole subject of playing opposite of the table holds ground. I am currently exploring the whole concept of playing the player not the cards so for me the cards are somewhat meaningless. Posted by rancid
Ok we drifiting off topic? But a good post to spark such lively debate.
Sorry Rancid thought you talking about 56s in the context of a 3 bet, my bad. Yes playing opposites is proven winning poker.
At the risk of repeating myself, this is micro's, cards do matter a lot more often - careful you don't level yourself Please let us know how you get on with your experimentation but my prediction is that you are heading for frustration.
ofc your cards matter, as they determine your actions in the hand, ie if you are trying to keep villain in hand or make him fold. Stating your cards are meaningless is redic imo, I understand you trying to play the player,but cards are important
As for playing against nits, raise their blinds more, 3bet light ip more (unless theiir opening range is redic tight) bluffraise flops more, play less broadway hands and more hands like scs that are less likely to be dominated, fold TP hands to serious action
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Ok we drifiting off topic? But a good post to spark such lively debate. Sorry Rancid thought you talking about 56s in the context of a 3 bet, my bad. Yes playing opposites is proven winning poker. At the risk of repeating myself, this is micro's, cards do matter a lot more often - careful you don't level yourself Please let us know how you get on with your experimentation but my prediction is that you are heading for frustration. Posted by step7
At micro ABC is good and I would advise anyone to play tight and play for value.
When you get to NL10/NL20 there are more regs so you have to adapt your game. I would prefer to think about it now rarther than when I get to NL20 tbh.
Even at NL4 you can outplay oppo very easily once you understand the way they play poker. I would post some hands up to show but I finks it would be too much advo )
ofc your cards matter, as they determine your actions in the hand, ie if you are trying to keep villain in hand or make him fold. Stating your cards are meaningless is redic imo, I understand you trying to play the player,but cards are important As for playing against nits, raise their blinds more, 3bet light ip more (unless theiir opening range is redic tight) bluffraise flops more, play less broadway hands and more hands like scs that are less likely to be dominated, fold TP hands to serious action Posted by grantorino
gran
Not saying I am right, just something I am thinking about more rarther than just playing ABC - value or bluff lines
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : gran Not saying I am right, just something I am thinking about more rarther than just playing ABC - value or bluff lines Posted by rancid
While I understand you are taking a long term approach with this gameplay, you still have to ask yourself what you hope to accomplish by 3-betting preflop IN POSITION with AJ.
The main reasons people 3 bet preflop are:
-To build the pot with a premium hand -To balance their 3 betting range preflop (ie it could be 56s, it could be AA) -To take the initiative for future betting rounds, particularly useful if OOP, but it also allows you to be versatile:
- />this is why suited connectors are great for 3 betting light; if you act last pre flop and an A or K comes on flop, you can represent it strongly. If the flop comes low cards and you connect well, you have a disguised hand and your opponent probably thinks you missed flop with AK etc.
AJ, as GT said, has value in and of itself, but mostly for making top pair in relatively small pots. 3-betting builds pots and his calling range for 3-bets would probably crush AJ so I don't see why you would 3-bet with AJ.
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : While I understand you are taking a long term approach with this gameplay, you still have to ask yourself what you hope to accomplish by 3-betting preflop IN POSITION with AJ. The main reasons people 3 bet preflop are: -To build the pot with a premium hand -To balance their 3 betting range preflop (ie it could be 56s, it could be AA) -To take the initiative for future betting rounds, particularly useful if OOP, but it also allows you to be versatile: - />this is why suited connectors are great for 3 betting light; if you act last pre flop and an A or K comes on flop, you can represent it strongly. If the flop comes low cards and you connect well, you have a disguised hand and your opponent probably thinks you missed flop with AK etc. AJ, as GT said, has value in and of itself, but mostly for making top pair in relatively small pots. 3-betting builds pots and his calling range for 3-bets would probably crush AJ so I don't see why you would 3-bet with AJ. Posted by BigRonnieC
Eveything you have said is spot on, it was such a long time ago I can't remember why I was going to 3 bet with AJ but it was not for a specifc reason more of a merge of the above plus other factors I was considering at the time. One of them being "Just what are my options in this spot" You could get him to laydown AQ or 1010 is a + because if oppo is really that tight he will fold these hands and flat worse possibly - but I really don't want to go over it again tbh - ) But the tighter the oppo the more likely under presure they will lay down a better hand that is not the nutz
But it did lead us here, which is a nice place to be )
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Eveything you have said is spot on, it was such a long time ago I can't remember why I was going to 3 bet with AJ but it was not for a specifc reason more of a merge of the above plus other factors I was considering at the time. One of them being "Just what are my options in this spot" You could get him to laydown AQ or 1010 is a + because if oppo is really that tight he will fold these hands and flat worse possibly - but I really don't want to go over it again tbh - ) But the tighter the oppo the more likly under presure they will lay down a betetr hand that is not the nutz But it did lead us here, which is a nice place to be ) Posted by rancid
There was a hand on Master Cash last week I think it was, AJ v AQ preflop (might have been Hurst05 had AJ?). AJ was OOP and 3 bet AQ, AQ folded. In that way, you can use the 3 bet to nullify positional disadvantage or try to get an opponent off a hand.
I would rather play 9 7 offsuit etc than A J/A 9 in a raised pot.
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : Not many flops miss a range of JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK though Posted by DOHHHHHHH
if they literally only open this range then just steal loads and call their raises with small pairs/some suited connectors because depending on how they play postflop you're probably getting great implied odds for when you hit.
In Response to Re: AJ on btn, 3bet spot? : if they literally only open this range then just steal loads and call their raises with small pairs/some suited connectors because depending on how they play postflop you're probably getting great implied odds for when you hit. Posted by yb
Comments
As i said in previous post unless you have a monster hand pre vs their monster hand pre pretty much this is the only way to get money offa these tighties
Obv it dont always work but when it does its good money in the pot.
If we take this logic and apply it to hold em then it does translate, AA has very little chance of improving unlike 56s.
Taking this onboard you can see why the nit is very exploitable.
You can narrow his or hers (Ok Debs I know woman play poker) range very easily and get stacks in very easily.
Anyway we can either play poker to flop lucky, outplay our oppo or not - choice is ours )
I think the whole subject of playing opposite of the table holds ground.
I am currently exploring the whole concept of playing the player not the cards so for me the cards are somewhat meaningless.
As for playing against nits, raise their blinds more, 3bet light ip more (unless theiir opening range is redic tight) bluffraise flops more, play less broadway hands and more hands like scs that are less likely to be dominated, fold TP hands to serious action
When you get to NL10/NL20 there are more regs so you have to adapt your game.
I would prefer to think about it now rarther than when I get to NL20 tbh.
Even at NL4 you can outplay oppo very easily once you understand the way they play poker.
I would post some hands up to show but I finks it would be too much advo )
Not saying I am right, just something I am thinking about more rarther than just playing ABC - value or bluff lines
The main reasons people 3 bet preflop are:
-To build the pot with a premium hand
-To balance their 3 betting range preflop (ie it could be 56s, it could be AA)
-To take the initiative for future betting rounds, particularly useful if OOP, but it also allows you to be versatile:
- />this is why suited connectors are great for 3 betting light; if you act last pre flop and an A or K comes on flop, you can represent it strongly. If the flop comes low cards and you connect well, you have a disguised hand and your opponent probably thinks you missed flop with AK etc.
AJ, as GT said, has value in and of itself, but mostly for making top pair in relatively small pots. 3-betting builds pots and his calling range for 3-bets would probably crush AJ so I don't see why you would 3-bet with AJ.
One of them being "Just what are my options in this spot"
You could get him to laydown AQ or 1010 is a + because if oppo is really that tight he will fold these hands and flat worse possibly - but I really don't want to go over it again tbh - )
But the tighter the oppo the more likely under presure they will lay down a better hand that is not the nutz
But it did lead us here, which is a nice place to be )
I would rather play 9 7 offsuit etc than A J/A 9 in a raised pot.