In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? :
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : I'm with you Flux... Even if Bell is only 355 and all in big blind next hand, what's to say they don't get pocket Aces dealt, and wins pot against anyone that bets in to it with junk that they had to play to try to beat Bell.. You are now on level (ish) stack with Bell and chasing to be dealt a hand!! Whilst you have Ace King, against just the BB, who could have absolutely nothing and fold, you have to Shove here!! TwennyP Posted by Twenny_P[/QUOT painful 2 read try and read thru the whole thread and take in some of the free advice Posted by SHANXTA
Sorry, but I have read through the whole post..
Explain what I say is wrong!!
All fair saying 'do this' 'do that', 'you're wrong', but be clear and give reasoning... That is what helps people understand what is wrong.
I stand by my thoughts (and clearly state the reasoning) I'm not saying it's 100% correct, but does it not make sense?
To prove a point i will post a bubble spot play where I am in same position... Although I only have K Q (so even worse hand to hold)..
Simply put, the big blind will go through the short stack next so therefore there's a greater chance bell will go out than you shoving AK and being called by any 2 and winning - there's also a chance the other ss will get busted
Here you see JME is the short stake. Benson has been playing really tight for most of game and was chip leader until a couple hands previous. I have less than 4 big blinds and am in BB spot next... I would recon most of you would say fold in this hold, and ride round the blinds? Yes, I'm lucky anf the Q drops for me... But that's poker, a game of chance!! for all your numbers and numerics you can plan, it still needs the 5 cards on the board to drop in your favour... I am now chip leader and next hand dealt pocket 7's.. and a 7 drops on River.. I take out Benson (who must be really sick now, after being ahead for nearly most of the game) the remaining 3 cash I make £4.50.. Lovely, thanks... Now show me what I did wrong? Posted by Twenny_P
Not relevent to the initial discussion, but is there any reason why you raised 1,800 and left 500 behind instead of just going all in?
Simply put, the big blind will go through the short stack next so therefore there's a greater chance bell will go out than you shoving AK and being called by any 2 - there's also a chance the other ss will get busted Posted by rancid
I state again... Poker is a game of Chance!!
You are relying on other factors being in your favour..
why not Chance shoving A K and getting extra chips to back you up? when is BB is 50:50 to fold.
Even if he calls 'any 2 cards' at this point he needs to be holding a pair to beat you. (most likely he won't have)
You are then both reliant on the board dropping a card that matches either players needs. A K high beats any other 2 cards high!! your odds (in my reconing) are in your favour.
Again, I say, there is no guarantee that short stake doesn't hit a hand and doubles up!!!
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : Not relevent to the initial discussion, but is there any reason why you raised 1,800 and left 500 behind instead of just going all in? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Yes, my laptop was playing up slow, and I was running out of time to correct my error in pressing 3bb instead of all in.. In that - i confess was an error.
Here you see JME is the short stake. Benson has been playing really tight for most of game and was chip leader until a couple hands previous. I have less than 4 big blinds and am in BB spot next... I would recon most of you would say fold in this hold, and ride round the blinds? Yes, I'm lucky anf the Q drops for me... But that's poker, a game of chance!! for all your numbers and numerics you can plan, it still needs the 5 cards on the board to drop in your favour... I am now chip leader and next hand dealt pocket 7's.. and a 7 drops on River.. I take out Benson (who must be really sick now, after being ahead for nearly most of the game) the remaining 3 cash I make £4.50.. Lovely, thanks... Now show me what I did wrong? Posted by Twenny_P
the reason u learn the maths is because if you make the right decisons then over the course of time u will win moniez
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : Yes, my laptop was playing up slow, and I was running out of time to correct my error in pressing 3bb instead of all in.. In that - i confess was an error. Posted by Twenny_P
I wouldn't say it was an error really, it's as good as a shove. Was just wondering if there was some reason for the raise instead of an all in.
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : the reason u learn the maths is because if you make the right decisons then over the course of time u will win moniez Posted by SHANXTA
So no actual comback on my point!
Yes, I cashed.. I'm making monies..
Possibilities is still chance and relient on an outcome.
98% chance to win is still a 2% chance to lose.. SODs law - you lose... ha ha..
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : I state again... Poker is a game of Chance!! You are relying on other factors being in your favour.. why not Chance shoving A K and getting extra chips to back you up? when is BB is 50:50 to fold. Even if he calls 'any 2 cards' at this point he needs to be holding a pair to beat you. (most likely he won't have) You are then both reliant on the board dropping a card that matches either players needs. A K high beats any other 2 cards high!! your odds (in my reconing) are in your favour. Again, I say, there is no guarantee that short stake doesn't hit a hand and doubles up!!! Posted by Twenny_P
There's a greater chance of finishing in the money if you fold this spot, you only need to finish in the top three -
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : I wouldn't say it was an error really, it's as good as a shove. Was just wondering if there was some reason for the raise instead of an all in. fwiw I also shove there. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : There's a greater chance of finishing in the money if you fold this spot, you only need to finish in the top three - Do you think we are all crazy ) Posted by rancid
Is the chance to finish in the money greater if you win with A K and have more chips?
Not saying your all mad, but there is a mix of people saying shove and some fold.
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : Is the chance to finish in the money greater if you win with A K and have more chips? Not saying your all mad, but there is a mix of people saying shove and some fold. Are the shove sayers Mad then? Posted by Twenny_P
No, there's a greater chance one of your oppo's will bust
Don't blame me I just drive the bus !
google "icmizer" and play around with it - may be surprised in what you learn
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : Is the chance to finish in the money greater if you win with A K and have more chips? Not saying your all mad, but there is a mix of people saying shove and some fold. Are the shove sayers Mad then? Posted by Twenny_P
That's the point - there's a better chance of cashing if you fold.
The people who said shove have either mis-read the stack sizes, or do not understand DYM theory on this point.
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : No, there's a greater chance your oppo will bust Don't blame me I just drive the bus ! Posted by rancid
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : That's the point - there's a better chance of cashing if you fold. The people who said shove have either mis-read the stack sizes, or do not understand DYM theory on this point. Posted by JingleMa
First glance it looks like the easiest shove in the world, right :S
Maths say it's a fold though so..................Tweeny get on the love bus
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : If only life was like the film 'Sliding Doors'... Then we could see what happens in either play.. LOL... Posted by Twenny_P
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : First glance it looks like the easiest shove in the world, right :S Maths say it's a fold though so..................Tweeny get on the love bus Posted by rancid
In Response to Re: DYM - AKs in SB w/2bbs Shove or Fold? : If only life was like the film 'Sliding Doors'... Then we could see what happens in either play.. LOL... Posted by Twenny_P
but we do know wot happens! dyms have effectively been 'solved' and there is an optimal way to play almost every situation, and in this case folding will be alot more profitable than shoving
Cant believe how long this thread has been running.
THE CORRECT PLAY IS FOLD!!!! it really is that easy. all the guys who said shove, then i'm sorry but in a dym situation it is NOT a good play, given the other stack sizes. The bb should call with any 2 cards and therefore even if he calls with 2 random cards, we are probably no more than 70% favourite( i dont know exact percentages). But im sorry given the other stack sizes i need to be closer to 100% to shove here.
Comments
combine that together = fold
btw Tweeny that hand you posted - just shove
Benson has been playing really tight for most of game and was chip leader until a couple hands previous.
I have less than 4 big blinds and am in BB spot next...
I would recon most of you would say fold in this hold, and ride round the blinds?
Yes, I'm lucky anf the Q drops for me...
But that's poker, a game of chance!! for all your numbers and numerics you can plan, it still needs the 5 cards on the board to drop in your favour...
I am now chip leader and next hand dealt pocket 7's.. and a 7 drops on River..
I take out Benson (who must be really sick now, after being ahead for nearly most of the game) the remaining 3 cash I make £4.50.. Lovely, thanks...
Now show me what I did wrong?
You are relying on other factors being in your favour..
why not Chance shoving A K and getting extra chips to back you up? when is BB is 50:50 to fold.
Even if he calls 'any 2 cards' at this point he needs to be holding a pair to beat you. (most likely he won't have)
You are then both reliant on the board dropping a card that matches either players needs. A K high beats any other 2 cards high!! your odds (in my reconing) are in your favour.
Again, I say, there is no guarantee that short stake doesn't hit a hand and doubles up!!!
And it tweNNy, not Tweeny!!!
Ranpid... lol (sorry just kidding)
Yes, I cashed.. I'm making monies..
Possibilities is still chance and relient on an outcome.
98% chance to win is still a 2% chance to lose..
SODs law - you lose... ha ha..
Do you think we are all crazy )
I appreciate your agreement.
Cheers
Not saying your all mad, but there is a mix of people saying shove and some fold.
Are the shove sayers Mad then?
Don't blame me I just drive the bus !
google "icmizer" and play around with it - may be surprised in what you learn
try pokerstove aswell )
Then we could see what happens in either play..
LOL...
First glance it looks like the easiest shove in the world, right :S
Maths say it's a fold though so..................Tweeny get on the love bus
But you can, but you can
THE CORRECT PLAY IS FOLD!!!! it really is that easy. all the guys who said shove, then i'm sorry but in a dym situation it is NOT a good play, given the other stack sizes. The bb should call with any 2 cards and therefore even if he calls with 2 random cards, we are probably no more than 70% favourite( i dont know exact percentages). But im sorry given the other stack sizes i need to be closer to 100% to shove here.