thanks rich post gave me bit of confidence lol.....good couselling session
anyway ran deep in mini d/s really enjoyed it great banter in the chat boxes all evening was hoping for a top 10 finish but came 13th happy enough with that played well,was on same table as scotty in the end could'nt get the better of him his 44 took down my AK also played a few £ 1 @ 2 dyms earlier for a bit of practice instead of jumping right into a mtt cashed in both!! roll on next time i load up the tables good luck
hi again Rich had a few mad moments of madness over weekend and was nearly back to my old ways,but returned to this post for inspiration and of course TEAM 51 for confidence.Anyway after alot of consideration on monday wether i should hit the tables this week i entered the weekly DTD and came second which was briliant and 5th in the £300 R/B on tuesday so ill think ill treat myself to the D/S main event if i get back in time from my 10km walk,anyhow good luck at the tables and run good starting to get the hang of this discipline issue in my game!!!!!!!
Glad you managed to steady the ship after a wobbly moment.
I've been playing very solidly at exactly the same level and always buying-in with the exact amount. The only trouble is, that level and buy-on is way too much for my bankroll!
Other than that though I'm playing solidly at the tables, obviously running into the occasional cooler though, which makes a big dent in my bankroll.
Started with £100 in mid December, and now one month later I've hit £645. I sit at the 50p/£1 tables with £100 and quite often walk away when I'm up say £30-£40, usually because of time restrictions, but always because it's better to leave the cash tables up, no matter how small the amount.
The bigger the bankroll gets the more 'correct' the level I'm playing at becomes! There's a weird logic to it- I'm not saying it's right though- ad I'm fully aware that I could lose the lot in one tilting session. As I have done on many, many occasions in the past. :-(
My poker is at it's absolute peak though- I've never played better than this in my life. Tha might not be saying much though- I was pretty poor in the early days! All those years of tuition from the 865 analysts is beginning to pay off it seems. And there's not many other things at the age of 40 you can say you're doing at it's peak! Lol.
Hope your 10km walk goes ok and good luck in the D/S main event. be careful with that bankroll- gotta get those demons under control!
If you can get past the rush of blood in wanting to immediately recoup your losses and therefore play in bigger and bigger games, then eventually you start to enjoy winning small amounts. Weirdly it's the concept that your bankroll is going up that makes you feel good, not by how much.
My suggestion- keep a very precise Excel spreadsheet or document logging how much your bankroll is , and how much you won/lost at each session. I colour in my winning sessions so they stand out, and eventually it becomes a mission to make sure there's no gaps in the colour- so the amount of profit from a session is not important as long as there is a profit!
That's what I've discovered anyway.
I'm playing Omaha tonight on the site, so may see you there!
Nice to see you trying omaha Rich. It really is a great game and teaches us a lot about dealing with outdraws, because they are standard in omaha.
Would love also to see you posting more hands for discussion. There are some people here who will give quality advice to anyone not sure about certain situations. Sometimes the best way to learn is for someone to tell us how badly we played rather than living in ignorance.
I will leave you with a few tips.
1) hand strength and position are key 2) Quantity of starting hands over quality of them 3) dont chase third or fourth nut draws. 4) Pot control. know when to keep it and when to let it go 5) Learn to fold second or third nuts 6) sometimes folding the nuts(if dead nuts) is the best play you can make
The bigger the bankroll gets the more 'correct' the level I'm playing at becomes! Posted by RICHORFORD
Hi Rich,
Absolutely the same thoughts as you. I just enjoy higher levels that much more and it's a lot more suited to my game. Like you say the risk is there that you'll lose a significant amount of bankroll playing those higher levels but when you can earn more money in half an hour than you probably could in many hours at the lower levels it puts things into perspective - sometimes even just from winning a set of blinds!
I am sure it only takes a few car crashes to change the way you think but if you are sensible it shouldn't be too bad.
hi mr orford,i only play poker for fun,30p dym.so my shock on monday coming 5th in the 2.20 dtd and winning over 28 pounds,for a player like me with no patience what so ever to sit there four nearly 4 hour,s was one heck of a shock.maybe just maybe i can play poker :):):)
Great news, Dub. Glad you managed to steady the ship after a wobbly moment. I've been playing very solidly at exactly the same level and always buying-in with the exact amount. The only trouble is, that level and buy-on is way too much for my bankroll! Other than that though I'm playing solidly at the tables, obviously running into the occasional cooler though, which makes a big dent in my bankroll. Started with £100 in mid Decemeber, and now one month later I've hit £645. I sit at the 50p/£1 tables with £100 and quite often walk away when I'm up say 30-£40, usually because of time restrictions, but always because it's better to leave the cash tables up, no matter how small the amount. The bigger the bankroll gets the more 'correct' the level I'm playing at becomes! There's a weird logic to it- I'm not saying it's right though- ad I'm fully aware that I could lose the lot in one tilting session. As I have done on many, many occasions in the past. :-( My poker is at it's absolute peak though- I've never played better than this in my life. Tha might not be saying much though- I was pretty poor in the early days! All those years of tuition from the 865 analaysts is beginning to pay off it seems. And there's not many other things at the age of 40 you can say you're doing at it's peak! Lol. Hope your 10km walk goes ok and good luck in the D/S main event. be careful with that bankroll- gotta get those demons under control! If you can get past the rush of blood in wanting to imediately recoup your losses and therefore playing in bigger and bigger games, then eventually you start to enjoy winning small amounts. Weirdly it's the concept that your bankroll is going up that makes you feel good , not by how much. My suggestion- keep a very precise Excel spreadsheet or document logging how much your bankroll is , and how much you won/lost at each session. I colour in my winning sessions so they stand out, ad even tually it becomes a mission to make sure there's no gaps in the colour- so the profit from a session is not important as long as there is a profit! That's what I've discovered anyway. I'm playing Omaha tonight on the site, so may see you there! Posted by RICHORFORD
home early and read your post Rich sound and good advice i will try that out,yep i was thinking about not playing main as it would be bad B/R managment at the moment so i played a snaeky sat and won seat to main instead,so from now ill play 1 sat if possible for main if no joy there back to small buy in mtts or low stakes sng's......done 5km early today in fresh air off on to treadmill now for other 5km gl with the omaha to night
Nice to see you trying omaha Rich. It really is a great game and teaches us a lot about dealing with outdraws, because they are standard in omaha. Would love also to see you posting more hands for discussion. There are some people here who will give quality advice to anyone not sure about certain situations. Sometimes the best way to learn is for someone to tell us how badly we played rather than living in ignorance. I will leave you with a few tips. 1) hand strength and position are key 2) Quantity of starting hands over quality of them 3) dont chase third or fourth nut draws. 4) Pot control. know when to keep it and when to let it go 5) Learn to fold second or third nuts 6) sometimes folding the nuts(if dead nuts) is the best play you can make Posted by Talon
Thanks Talon- great advice as always. I remember you helped me along the last time I tackled Omaha, which is a bit of a speciality of yours.
Talon runs a great thread on Omaha and, if he reminds me of where it is and provides a link, I will happily promote it on this thread.
One more week of taking on PLO MTTs for me and to try and consolidate my learning. Then, next week I'm going to try Omaha Hi-Lo.
I'm regged for the 7.10pm £3.30 PLO MTT. And here's the lobby...
In Response to Re: Orford's 12 for '12! : Hi Rich, Absolutely the same thoughts as you. I just enjoy higher levels that much more and it's a lot more suited to my game. Like you say the risk is there that you'll lose a significant amount of bankroll playing those higher levels but when you can earn more money in half an hour than you probably could in many hours at the lower levels it puts things into perspective - sometimes even just from winning a set of blinds! I am sure it only takes a few car crashes to change the way you think but if you are sensible it shouldn't be too bad. Posted by DaveOwlX
True Dave. It's basically human nature and there's no escaping it. I know this, because I've now been playing poker for well over a decade, have listened to hundreds of hours of instruction about the game and still cannot quite adhere to strict bankroll discipline.
In many other aspects in life, I'm fairly sensible but in poker I can't stick say £100 down on the site and then play 2p/4p because it's correct to.
What's the solution? I guess it's to be aware of this trait and therefore decide to play your higher levels but walk away if you lose the buy-in and leave depositing again until you feel you can afford it.
As long as the money you place on the site is money you are prepared to lose then I guess whether or not you play with it at the correct level is entirely up to you.
hi mr orford,i only play poker for fun,30p dym.so my shock on monday coming 5th in the 2.20 dtd and winning over 28 pounds,for a player like me with no patience what so ever to sit there four nearly 4 hour,s was one heck of a shock.maybe just maybe i can play poker :):):) Posted by paige55
Hi Paige- thanks for your post. Good for you playing poker for fun and happily admitting to it! Just because it's one of the few hobbies in the world that happens to pay you cash every now and then, doesn't mean to say that it shoudn't primarily be enjoyable!
4 hours displays massive patience and I hope you feel rewarded for that time with a huge win relative to the buy-in for the tournament.
OK, the 7.10pm PLO MTT is off and running and here comes the first key hand for you fom the opening few minutes.
I lost a fair chunk of my stack here and I don't feel like I played this particularly well. In fact, I feel like I played it like a hold'em hand. Clearly, I'm still in NLHE mode!
First hand: Have already given you the short version now the long.
Preflop: Average sort of hand so no need to raise. Tick here. Flop: You have a bad top pair and the fifth nut flush draw and a gutshot. In other words NOTHING. Check/fold or check call a small bet. No tick here.
Turn: Your hand has now decreased with the same bad draws and now only a bad second pair. check/fold every day of the week. No tick here.
River:No decision should be made here because you shouldnt be in the pot. Your bet is no more than a bad bluff against someone who has called you on 2 streets. It was lucky for him that he called so light and won.
Basically you lost over a quarter of your stack with no real hand chasing very bad draws. Learn this lesson well.
Preflop: no probs with the limp here, very playable hand that flops well. Key thing to note here is that you are out of position and will need to use the correct bet sizing post flop if you hit.
Flop: Interesting flop. You have middle set but on the wettest flop in the history of wetsville.Playing this out of the small blind means you need to check here to keep pot control because there is a vergood chance (especially 4 way) that you are a mile behind looking for the board to pair. Also you are not in that great a position aginst the draws available. When you are raised then you only have 2 options the 3-bet shove or fold.Calling is the worst thing possible here. I know you told me that was your intent and it was a misclick to call. A reraise could well have got the oppo off top pair and a bad draw.
Turn: Irrelevant you are totally pot committed and there is no way you can do anything else here.
We were chatting during the 20-10 tourny and i mentioned about the fact that you kept tussling with the same guy whilst OOP and when i was doing the same i was the one in position against him. This is the main reason he was taking all of your chips and i was taking all of his.
Position is key in omaha especially as it is such a drawy game. OOP you have very few options whilst in position you can get the pot to do whatever you want and have the full control.
In this hand you were playing OOP and so could not play the pot to the best of your abilities. Please try to use position as a weapon and not just the cards.
Comments
How did you end up? or should I say how did Hartigan End down?
If you can get past the rush of blood in wanting to immediately recoup your losses and therefore play in bigger and bigger games, then eventually you start to enjoy winning small amounts. Weirdly it's the concept that your bankroll is going up that makes you feel good, not by how much.
Would love also to see you posting more hands for discussion. There are some people here who will give quality advice to anyone not sure about certain situations. Sometimes the best way to learn is for someone to tell us how badly we played rather than living in ignorance.
I will leave you with a few tips.
1) hand strength and position are key
2) Quantity of starting hands over quality of them
3) dont chase third or fourth nut draws.
4) Pot control. know when to keep it and when to let it go
5) Learn to fold second or third nuts
6) sometimes folding the nuts(if dead nuts) is the best play you can make
Absolutely the same thoughts as you. I just enjoy higher levels that much more and it's a lot more suited to my game. Like you say the risk is there that you'll lose a significant amount of bankroll playing those higher levels but when you can earn more money in half an hour than you probably could in many hours at the lower levels it puts things into perspective - sometimes even just from winning a set of blinds!
I am sure it only takes a few car crashes to change the way you think but if you are sensible it shouldn't be too bad.
Thanks Talon- great advice as always. I remember you helped me along the last time I tackled Omaha, which is a bit of a speciality of yours.
Talon runs a great thread on Omaha and, if he reminds me of where it is and provides a link, I will happily promote it on this thread.
One more week of taking on PLO MTTs for me and to try and consolidate my learning. Then, next week I'm going to try Omaha Hi-Lo.
I'm regged for the 7.10pm £3.30 PLO MTT. And here's the lobby...
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=go_tnmt_lobby&game_id=5686270&guid=a4494d68-a2bd-453d-9c97-e5bf2fe46cda
Hope to see you all at the tables tonight!
Watch this space!
True Dave. It's basically human nature and there's no escaping it. I know this, because I've now been playing poker for well over a decade, have listened to hundreds of hours of instruction about the game and still cannot quite adhere to strict bankroll discipline.
In many other aspects in life, I'm fairly sensible but in poker I can't stick say £100 down on the site and then play 2p/4p because it's correct to.
What's the solution? I guess it's to be aware of this trait and therefore decide to play your higher levels but walk away if you lose the buy-in and leave depositing again until you feel you can afford it.
As long as the money you place on the site is money you are prepared to lose then I guess whether or not you play with it at the correct level is entirely up to you.
Hi Paige- thanks for your post. Good for you playing poker for fun and happily admitting to it! Just because it's one of the few hobbies in the world that happens to pay you cash every now and then, doesn't mean to say that it shoudn't primarily be enjoyable!
4 hours displays massive patience and I hope you feel rewarded for that time with a huge win relative to the buy-in for the tournament.
Hope this is the start of a run of good results!
I lost a fair chunk of my stack here and I don't feel like I played this particularly well. In fact, I feel like I played it like a hold'em hand. Clearly, I'm still in NLHE mode!
Any thoughts from you guys?
What do we think of this?
Now, about that thread of his that I mentioned above. I've tracked it down in the Poker Clinic and bumord it up to page one.
Here's the direct link to it
This thread is gold for all Omaha newbies. And I can personally vouch that Talon (Colin) is more than happy to impart his wisdom.
Ask, and ye shall receive!
Finished at 21:35 - 18 Jan
First hand: Have already given you the short version now the long.
Preflop: Average sort of hand so no need to raise. Tick here.
Flop: You have a bad top pair and the fifth nut flush draw and a gutshot. In other words NOTHING. Check/fold or check call a small bet. No tick here.
Turn: Your hand has now decreased with the same bad draws and now only a bad second pair. check/fold every day of the week. No tick here.
River:No decision should be made here because you shouldnt be in the pot. Your bet is no more than a bad bluff against someone who has called you on 2 streets. It was lucky for him that he called so light and won.
Basically you lost over a quarter of your stack with no real hand chasing very bad draws. Learn this lesson well.
Preflop: no probs with the limp here, very playable hand that flops well. Key thing to note here is that you are out of position and will need to use the correct bet sizing post flop if you hit.
Flop: Interesting flop. You have middle set but on the wettest flop in the history of wetsville.Playing this out of the small blind means you need to check here to keep pot control because there is a vergood chance (especially 4 way) that you are a mile behind looking for the board to pair. Also you are not in that great a position aginst the draws available. When you are raised then you only have 2 options the 3-bet shove or fold.Calling is the worst thing possible here. I know you told me that was your intent and it was a misclick to call. A reraise could well have got the oppo off top pair and a bad draw.
Turn: Irrelevant you are totally pot committed and there is no way you can do anything else here.
We were chatting during the 20-10 tourny and i mentioned about the fact that you kept tussling with the same guy whilst OOP and when i was doing the same i was the one in position against him. This is the main reason he was taking all of your chips and i was taking all of his.
Position is key in omaha especially as it is such a drawy game. OOP you have very few options whilst in position you can get the pot to do whatever you want and have the full control.
In this hand you were playing OOP and so could not play the pot to the best of your abilities. Please try to use position as a weapon and not just the cards.