adz, i would say nl 30 the game "settles" down a bit. it not easier by a long shot.. the advice to beat the levels getting to this level is spot on.less "erratic" play but better plays, there is a trade off unfortunately. Posted by pod1
adz, i would say nl 30 the game "settles" down a bit. it not easier by a long shot.. the advice to beat the levels getting to this level is spot on.less "erratic" play but better plays, there is a trade off unfortunately. Posted by pod1
As a statement of fact, I would state that it is HARDER to beat than 2p-4p. The higher the levels, the harder it is.
In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : A fact? Think I'd challenge that, Sir. It is not a fact, it is a figment of your imagination. If they "always hit their draw" they must, by definition, be winning players. And that would make them winning players, not "bad" players. Logic ftw. Why not try it yourself, call every raise with any two? The case would soon be proven...... Posted by Tikay10
very well said Tikay cause we all know its just you that hits the draws in the take on tikay tournies lol
In your orrigional post you ask what level of cash do you get "propa poker". The honest answer to this is you can get it at all levels. For example at NL4 recently I was on a table where instead of my normal 20p pre-flop raise I made it 12p UTG with 33 hoping for a string of callers and then a 3 on the flop so that I could go to value town. Everyone folded. Once it became apparent that the table was playing tight I raised AK from the button to 16p and everyone folded. At this point I left the table and found another.
To win at NL4 you need to have people call a standard 20p raise with junk like Q4 etc.
Imagine the following situation. You raise from the cut-off with AKo and the button calls. flop is QsJd3s . You decide to fire a c-bet (probably unwise out of possition) and he calls. turn is a 6h, you fire again and he calls. river is a 9c. You decide that he was probably drawing to a straight or a flush and will fold if you shove for 3/4 pot. You shove and he calls showing J4 to win with second pair.
Short-term this is a disaster. You have just lost a full buy-in. But in terms of information this is great. You have found one of the many players at NL4 that you know will call off all their stack with second pair. Next time you play this guy you can bet any hand better than top-pair-weak-kicker as big as you like and you will get full value.
Keep in you bankroll, play multiple tables, play 10k hands per month and be patient.
In your orrigional post you ask what level of cash do you get "propa poker". The honest answer to this is you can get it at all levels. For example at NL4 recently I was on a table where instead of my normal 20p pre-flop raise I made it 12p UTG with 33 hoping for a string of callers and then a 3 on the flop so that I could go to value town. Everyone folded. Once it became apparent that the table was playing tight I raised AK from the button to 16p and everyone folded. At this point I left the table and found another. To win at NL4 you need to have people call a standard 20p raise with junk like Q4 etc. Imagine the following situation. You raise from the cut-off with AKo and the button calls. flop is QsJd3s . You decide to fire a c-bet (probably unwise out of possition) and he calls. turn is a 6h, you fire again and he calls. river is a 9c. You decide that he was probably drawing to a straight or a flush and will fold if you shove for 3/4 pot. You shove and he calls showing J4 to win with second pair. Short-term this is a disaster. You have just lost a full buy-in. But in terms of information this is great. You have found one of the many players at NL4 that you know will call off all their stack with second pair. Next time you play this guy you can bet any hand better than top-pair-weak-kicker as big as you like and you will get full value. Keep in you bankroll, play multiple tables, play 10k hands per month and be patient. Posted by jugglegeek
In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : As a statement of fact, I would state that it is HARDER to beat than 2p-4p. The higher the levels, the harder it is. Posted by Tikay10
im not a believer of that being completly true tk pokerwise a player working his way up the levels from 2/4p then yeah its harder as like you say they learn to win but not everyone who enters poker starts off at the bottom do they? Some players look at the lower levels and see it pointless just as in MTTs u get weaker players at the higher buys ins just taking shots. I find myself i do better in higher stakes MTTs than i do at lower MTTs in the storm on a certain site ive cashed in it over 3/4 times of entering it the last 1 i did on jan the 1st i finished 192nd out of over 35k but at the lower entrys i cant buy a win on the same site in my oppionion i find it easier playing above average players than below 1s as silly as that may sound
tikay agree with what u say all about variance just seems on here bad beat after bad beat calling u with any two suck out on u play on a site now not mention the name but got voted last year best software 20011 seems 100% better then here never mind all the do gooders jump on band wagan not haveing a moan been playing poker long enough to know about the downswings
In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : im not a believer of that being completly true tk pokerwise a player working his way up the levels from 2/4p then yeah its harder as like you say they learn to win but not everyone who enters poker starts off at the bottom do they? Some players look at the lower levels and see it pointless just as in MTTs u get weaker players at the higher buys ins just taking shots. I find myself i do better in higher stakes MTTs than i do at lower MTTs in the storm on a certain site ive cashed in it over 3/4 times of entering it the last 1 i did on jan the 1st i finished 192nd out of over 35k but at the lower entrys i cant buy a win on the same site in my oppionion i find it easier playing above average players than below 1s as silly as that may sound Posted by adz777
It is not an opinion, Adz, it is a fact. The higher the level, the tougher it is to win, & the more skilful you need to be.
Winning players at higher levels can ALL beat the lower levels. The reverse is not true, & if it were, they would mostly be playing the higher levels.
If you feel you have the game for NL20+ then go for it but if you can not adjust and win at NL4 then frankly you have no chance.
A very well known player NL100+ (Coxyl) is playing and beating NL4 as a challenge And how you ask, by adjusting --
Maybe give NL10 a shot as there's more Regs and you will find a better game but there's still the bad players who will frustrate and annoy you in the short term
It boggles the mind how people can be so oblivious to what are clearly facts. These players are exactly what you say they are, bad players, so what does it make you if you can't beat them? If you find someone who will keep calling bets with bottom pair or worse, then wait for your strong hands and go to value town when you flop TPTK or the like. Such a large part of the game is basic probability, you will hit your draws EXACTLY the same amount as they hit theirs if you play long enough, so it comes down to whether you make them pay to hit it or not.
It's also no different in an MTT, and I'm guessing you've not played enough of a sample to comment on where you really play best. If you've played say 100 low stake MTTs and 100 higher stakes ones, that is NEVER gonna give you an accurate picture of which you truly do better in. There might be a few more mines to dodge, and it may be better to play small pots and chip up slowly rather than taking races all the time but there is ALWAYS a way to beat bad players (hence why they consistently lose).
"It's publically documented that many talented pros can crush the big games but can't beat the micros online" -- the_don90 Posted by DOHHHHHHH
There is no truth in this at all of course...
It is probably just a lack of effort in the smaller games and an increased spew factor...
If an experienced mid/high stakes pro were to properly concentrate as part of a prop bet or bankroll challenge (such as Coxy) at the micro/lower stakes they would destroy it...
You earn the right to play winning higher stakes poker, you don't win at those levels because it somehow suits your game more...
personally, although everyone else has made it quite clear they disagree, I think 20NL is where you can play some proper poker and not lotto. 4NL tilts me bad because of the lotto players and their luck. I make a steady profit at 20NL though. I'd advise trying it out.
Comments
To win at NL4 you need to have people call a standard 20p raise with junk like Q4 etc.
Imagine the following situation. You raise from the cut-off with AKo and the button calls. flop is QsJd3s . You decide to fire a c-bet (probably unwise out of possition) and he calls. turn is a 6h, you fire again and he calls. river is a 9c. You decide that he was probably drawing to a straight or a flush and will fold if you shove for 3/4 pot. You shove and he calls showing J4 to win with second pair.
Short-term this is a disaster. You have just lost a full buy-in. But in terms of information this is great. You have found one of the many players at NL4 that you know will call off all their stack with second pair. Next time you play this guy you can bet any hand better than top-pair-weak-kicker as big as you like and you will get full value.
Keep in you bankroll, play multiple tables, play 10k hands per month and be patient.
It's like being back at school.
Winning players at higher levels can ALL beat the lower levels. The reverse is not true, & if it were, they would mostly be playing the higher levels.
A very well known player NL100+ (Coxyl) is playing and beating NL4 as a challenge
And how you ask, by adjusting --
Maybe give NL10 a shot as there's more Regs and you will find a better game but there's still the bad players who will frustrate and annoy you in the short term
It's also no different in an MTT, and I'm guessing you've not played enough of a sample to comment on where you really play best. If you've played say 100 low stake MTTs and 100 higher stakes ones, that is NEVER gonna give you an accurate picture of which you truly do better in. There might be a few more mines to dodge, and it may be better to play small pots and chip up slowly rather than taking races all the time but there is ALWAYS a way to beat bad players (hence why they consistently lose).