Ok, got a ton of answers and updates to do, will probably do them over the course of a few hours as I'm still grind.
However we start off with an apology I need to make. Here's the hand I'm about to talk about, taken from the main event last night at the bubble+1:
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
SJspanky1
Small blind
1000.00
1000.00
110045.70
aloette52
Big blind
2000.00
3000.00
108945.60
Your hole cards
10
K
missbanker
Fold
max714
Fold
TommyD
Raise
4000.00
7000.00
51791.92
madeyeII
Call
4000.00
11000.00
56652.12
SJspanky1
Fold
aloette52
Fold
Flop
Q
5
Q
TommyD
Bet
5500.00
16500.00
46291.92
madeyeII
Call
5500.00
22000.00
51152.12
Turn
8
TommyD
Bet
11000.00
33000.00
35291.92
madeyeII
Call
11000.00
44000.00
40152.12
River
5
TommyD
All-in
35291.92
79291.92
0.00
madeyeII
Call
35291.92
114583.84
4860.20
TommyD
Show
10
K
madeyeII
Show
A
J
madeyeII
Win
Flush to the Ace
114583.84
So what happened. Well madeyeII tanked to the very limit of timebar (literally the width of a nat's wossit) before making the call. I also missed the fact that as well as bringing in the flush the river double paired the board. I made a rookie error and saw flush when I should have seen the board double pair. My reaction to the tank call was, and I quote 'Wow, that was a fun slowroll.' I would like to publicly and unreservedly apologise to MadeyeII for saying this. With the board double paired it's an exceptionally tough spot and you made an excellent call, very sell played. There's an argument that I shouldn't have said anything even if the river was say the 2 of clubs. I probably let myself down. After reviewing the HH and seeing the truth I did go back to the table and apologise at the time, I just feel I need to do it publicly here as well.
Slowrolling is one of the worst things in poker IMO and no one should mistakenly accuse someone of doing so, I was completely out of order.
From an apology to a non apology. That main event was a fun one for me. Very early on I managed to offend someone by shoving on the turn, getting called when I was behind (shock), hitting a 14 outer and, here's the sin, not saying 'ul.' Appartently it's disrespectful.
Seriously? I mean, seriously? To be honest I don't get the whole 'ul' stuff. No one means it when you hit a card and a winner turns into a loser while at the same time making you richer. And it was the rebuy period. Shock horror, I may be shoving a little wider with equity during the rebuy period.
It's not as bad as the whole 'sorry' comment. Sorry? No one is sorry. You want to win. It's part of the game, I get binked, that's the game, I bink someone, that's the game. I heard of a game someone tried out once in a home game where they stopped the hand when there was a called all in before the river and instead of dealing the rest of the board, they just chopped the pot according to equity. I also heard the game never ended. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
A last point, I did say vul to this fellow after another hand 30 minutes later, but then I again I did spike a genuine one outer. That only seemed to make matters worse. Can't do right for doing wrong....
Obviously best not to say anything but I personally don't think your comment was way ool tbh mate Posted by dylan12
I regard slowrolling as spitting in someone's face mate and I would be exceptionally annoyed if I was wrongly accused of it. It has been playing on my mind so I thought I should just publicly put it out there.
If you have been playing bad tommy, im sure you can do something about it m8, take a day off or something and get your head in a positive mood again, you should not sit down and be doubting your game before playing a hand. FWIW (not much i reckon) Yesterday was a bad day for me, no regs when i start the tables and fish everywhere £££ right! ..wrong.just could not win a dime, 4 x 100 bb in the middle,Aq vs A10, ak vs 95, ak vs qj, set over sets any other day i would be up 4 buy ins + more, i was so *****sed i broke my mouse! silly me , and realizing the mouse didnt work i went on TILT overload as i could not get my money back, played the egg-box had a quick jolly: THE END tilt over...so bought a new mouse today . Run good tommy. Posted by WHOAMI196
Cheers mate
Since you posted this you took down a main event IIRC? Very nicely done Sir.
Haven't broken a mouse or indeed anything while playing. Yet. Luckily when I play on the laptop I'm never near an open window.
Haven't been paying attention but i'm sure it would help you to report things in terms of buyins rather than in terms of monetary amounts. That could be 10-15 bis of 100bb which is a negligible swing or you could be playing nl10 and doing your brains lol Usual suggestion when things aren't going well is to take a break but as you're points grinding it's hard, you're welcome to pm me if you want to pay for some of my time. It wouldn't be cheap as you play in the same games I play but i'm sure i'd have you confident again in sub 3k lol Posted by beaneh
Good point about the BIs Beanster. I'm going to do a round up across all BI levels later on, it'll give a better example of what's going on.
Thanks for your offer but I have someone I already use for that. The GF. It's very simple, I engineer it so she ends up watching me for five minutes and one of two things happen every single hand:
1) She screams 'What are you doing going all in with that?' (this isn't some thinly veiled 'I'm a loose balla' brag, she says this when I shove with Aces).
2) She says 'Why did you do that?' This is a question which makes up at least 50% of her conversation with me on all matters, not just poker. It helps though, I use her as a sounding board and I work through my own thinking and iron out the kinks while she stares at me and then just repeats the initial question. As per usual. Seems to work.
ttommy you are a sicko with tournies, just stick with sng and mtts and you will have cracking month, and pllease tell me ur tourney secrets nice results mate Posted by WHOAMI196
Just thought I'd show my face so to speak. Great thread and I'm enjoying the read about your experience of the 50k points chase. Interesting that you played Omaha on Stars. May I ask your view of the game and how many tables you play of it? I'm starting to play more and more of the game myself and thoroughly enjoying it. Posted by patwalshh
The game is great and there is still an decent sized edge against the field as opposed to NLHE where the edges are a lot thinner. I love the game and there are so many decent spots out there as a lot of people think they are playing Holdem with four cards, it's a completely different game.
When I play live I try to find a PLO table with some good chatters about. Why do I look for good company? Because live full ring PLO is so much about solid starting hands, high equity flops to attack and basic nut peddling. The vast majority of live PLO games you want to be at (like any live game, full with people who like a drink and are quite relaxed) have a skill gap, therefore moves and high level representing just won't work.
Online it's not quite like that but it's not a million miles away. You'll find people chasing pot bets with bare 8 high flush draws all the way to the river. Starting hands and discipline (something I have been admittedly up and down on) is vital. Also when the moment is right, don't be afraid to get your stack in, there will be swings.
I play a lot of 6 max PLO on another site directly connected to my sports book. I'm a self admitted mug punter so it normally goes win on the PLO tables, place bad football bets, top up at the PLO tables etc. It is nice to have a 'fun roll' though, for my other main sites I have made sure there is no access for poker money to sports betting/casino games etc.
I digressing a lot here Pat, anyway, I think PLO will take to Six Max a lot quicker than Hold Em has or will. It's very important to work out as soon as you can what sort of player you're up against just because there is so much more you can represent, that you can run in to and what you can attack. In short, solid starting hands, cheap pre, high equity flops with aggression and know your enemy. Also position is, as always, a massive advantage.
I think it's important for a poker player to have as wider knowledge of as many games as possible, it gives you so much more of a chance of surviving and thriving in the game long term. Players need to work at both cash and tournaments. Players need to work at learning Hold em strat and PLO strat IMO as well as other games. That's why for a year I was like one of a dozen Badugi regs on Stars (that game is so good), that's why I suffer Razz for long grinds. You never know where the value is going to be in the future. Stud used to be the game, there is no guarantee that Hold Em won't go the same way. Anyway, there's more value in the fringes than in the centre.
As for table numbers, I 6 table 6-max or 5-Max PLO (there used to be 5-max on one network, that was a lot of fun) and 8 table FR PLO. I used to try to mix PLO and Hold em, don't try that much any more. I once mixed NLHE, PLO and Badugi. That did not end well. My advice would be one form of the game at a time, they are all completely different games (this includes PLO and PLO8 being totally different games).
When I play bad there is not a worse player on the site. Luckily only had one such session in the last week (the last one sadly). I decided to take on the late Saturday night drinkers and party animals by doing an impression of a man on his fifth bottle of whiskey. And not the small airplane ones. It was not good. So the last session dropped 4 BIs at nl100 but this just keeps up the form of the last week. I've just been bouncing back and forth between -3k and -2k. Got it to -1.7k earlier and thought I was through the threshold. Nope.
However points going well and I am predicting completing the 50k at some point on Tuesday. At that moment I am snap logging out for the rest of the month. Still think there's a chance of breaking even in pure poker terms by them but I obviously need a few good sessions. It's doable.
Spurs out to Leeds in the cup. So sigh. You see, this is why I detest the chairman at QPR. Might seem odd but he made me feel sorry for Neil Warnock for such an unfair sacking a little while ago. Now I have to try to avoid Colin's smug face on the TV and in the papers for a week. Every time I fail and end up seeing that guy grinning away I'm going to be thinking 'You made me feel sorry for him QPR.'
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Hey YG, sorry this took a bit of time to get to. MTT buy ins are a hard one to gauge. If you're only playing 5k+ runner events like the Bigs, the Biggers and specials like the Storms you probably need 300+ BIs. If I was only playing these as a recreational player I would seriously consider going to a budget rather than bankroll until the if/when of a big bink happened. They are just so swongy. For the more standard MTTs 1k-5k I would adjust this, probably look at 100-200 buy ins. If we're talking Sky MTTs where the field sizes are generally even lower I would go to the very minimum of 75 average buy ins, however this would not be without risk. If you just play turbos you probably can add at least 50% to the numbers, maybe double them. One bit of advice? Pick a roadmap and know where on the map you are. If you are down to 20BB understand you are a reshove stack now and adjust you open and reshove range accordingly. If you got an early double understand that you can't win it now and that untempered bullying will just send you out, you are now in a great position to pick and choose where and when you want to play, a chance we don't always get in MTTs when the autopilot hands come. Posted by TommyD
Tommy, its impossible for me to do this, whats the alternative? keep on losing is not an attractive option!
Quick update on the rake race, I'm 5.7k points short of 50k. This is getting done now. This month has been a frustrating experience and I'm polishing this off with one long session. Tea is brewed, snacks at the side, I'm in the chair and not logging off for the 20-30 hours it will take to complete this.
In the words of an incredibly camp friend of mine, I'm so over this challenge.
Quick update on the rake race, I'm 5.7k points short of 50k. This is getting done now. This month has been a frustrating experience and I'm polishing this off with one long session. Tea is brewed, snacks at the side, I'm in the chair and not logging off for the 20-30 hours it will take to complete this. In the words of an incredibly camp friend of mine, I'm so over this challenge. Posted by TommyD
Great start to this session, dropped the best part of a grand on the nl200 tables. Played garbage, couldn't fade a draw, couldn't hold, couldn't hit, couldn't take it anymore, going back later. Concentrating on the MTTs for a bit.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Not sure yet. On one point there was no point doing this if I wasn't going to at least try for both. On the other hand, it's really annoying. Posted by TommyD
lolol
I normally start to think the latter about 2 days into a month grind.
How much harder do you think it has been to get the target relative to previous rake races like last years in January? in terms of number of games running etc (accepting it depends on when you are available to play, maybe specify that!).
Comments
However we start off with an apology I need to make. Here's the hand I'm about to talk about, taken from the main event last night at the bubble+1:
Slowrolling is one of the worst things in poker IMO and no one should mistakenly accuse someone of doing so, I was completely out of order.
From an apology to a non apology. That main event was a fun one for me. Very early on I managed to offend someone by shoving on the turn, getting called when I was behind (shock), hitting a 14 outer and, here's the sin, not saying 'ul.' Appartently it's disrespectful.
Seriously? I mean, seriously? To be honest I don't get the whole 'ul' stuff. No one means it when you hit a card and a winner turns into a loser while at the same time making you richer. And it was the rebuy period. Shock horror, I may be shoving a little wider with equity during the rebuy period.
It's not as bad as the whole 'sorry' comment. Sorry? No one is sorry. You want to win. It's part of the game, I get binked, that's the game, I bink someone, that's the game. I heard of a game someone tried out once in a home game where they stopped the hand when there was a called all in before the river and instead of dealing the rest of the board, they just chopped the pot according to equity. I also heard the game never ended. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
A last point, I did say vul to this fellow after another hand 30 minutes later, but then I again I did spike a genuine one outer. That only seemed to make matters worse. Can't do right for doing wrong....
Since you posted this you took down a main event IIRC? Very nicely done Sir.
Haven't broken a mouse or indeed anything while playing. Yet. Luckily when I play on the laptop I'm never near an open window.
Thanks for your offer but I have someone I already use for that. The GF. It's very simple, I engineer it so she ends up watching me for five minutes and one of two things happen every single hand:
1) She screams 'What are you doing going all in with that?' (this isn't some thinly veiled 'I'm a loose balla' brag, she says this when I shove with Aces).
2) She says 'Why did you do that?' This is a question which makes up at least 50% of her conversation with me on all matters, not just poker. It helps though, I use her as a sounding board and I work through my own thinking and iron out the kinks while she stares at me and then just repeats the initial question. As per usual. Seems to work.
When I play live I try to find a PLO table with some good chatters about. Why do I look for good company? Because live full ring PLO is so much about solid starting hands, high equity flops to attack and basic nut peddling. The vast majority of live PLO games you want to be at (like any live game, full with people who like a drink and are quite relaxed) have a skill gap, therefore moves and high level representing just won't work.
Online it's not quite like that but it's not a million miles away. You'll find people chasing pot bets with bare 8 high flush draws all the way to the river. Starting hands and discipline (something I have been admittedly up and down on) is vital. Also when the moment is right, don't be afraid to get your stack in, there will be swings.
I play a lot of 6 max PLO on another site directly connected to my sports book. I'm a self admitted mug punter so it normally goes win on the PLO tables, place bad football bets, top up at the PLO tables etc. It is nice to have a 'fun roll' though, for my other main sites I have made sure there is no access for poker money to sports betting/casino games etc.
I digressing a lot here Pat, anyway, I think PLO will take to Six Max a lot quicker than Hold Em has or will. It's very important to work out as soon as you can what sort of player you're up against just because there is so much more you can represent, that you can run in to and what you can attack. In short, solid starting hands, cheap pre, high equity flops with aggression and know your enemy. Also position is, as always, a massive advantage.
I think it's important for a poker player to have as wider knowledge of as many games as possible, it gives you so much more of a chance of surviving and thriving in the game long term. Players need to work at both cash and tournaments. Players need to work at learning Hold em strat and PLO strat IMO as well as other games. That's why for a year I was like one of a dozen Badugi regs on Stars (that game is so good), that's why I suffer Razz for long grinds. You never know where the value is going to be in the future. Stud used to be the game, there is no guarantee that Hold Em won't go the same way. Anyway, there's more value in the fringes than in the centre.
As for table numbers, I 6 table 6-max or 5-Max PLO (there used to be 5-max on one network, that was a lot of fun) and 8 table FR PLO. I used to try to mix PLO and Hold em, don't try that much any more. I once mixed NLHE, PLO and Badugi. That did not end well. My advice would be one form of the game at a time, they are all completely different games (this includes PLO and PLO8 being totally different games).
All that and no rake race update. Whoopsie.
When I play bad there is not a worse player on the site. Luckily only had one such session in the last week (the last one sadly). I decided to take on the late Saturday night drinkers and party animals by doing an impression of a man on his fifth bottle of whiskey. And not the small airplane ones. It was not good. So the last session dropped 4 BIs at nl100 but this just keeps up the form of the last week. I've just been bouncing back and forth between -3k and -2k. Got it to -1.7k earlier and thought I was through the threshold. Nope.
However points going well and I am predicting completing the 50k at some point on Tuesday. At that moment I am snap logging out for the rest of the month. Still think there's a chance of breaking even in pure poker terms by them but I obviously need a few good sessions. It's doable.
P/L: -£2,283.89
C4P: 42,711
The horror.
In the words of an incredibly camp friend of mine, I'm so over this challenge.
On the other hand, it's really annoying.
Great start to this session, dropped the best part of a grand on the nl200 tables. Played garbage, couldn't fade a draw, couldn't hold, couldn't hit, couldn't take it anymore, going back later. Concentrating on the MTTs for a bit.