Sigh, turns out it wasn't that easy to read first time. UTG raise then, less likely to be a bluffy 3-bet, less reason to believe the 4-bet jam would be profitable.
If you are looking for advice on the hand id say the min open is fine for your stack size, but as soon as you get 3 bet when you are playing 25bbs you know that you are probably playing for stacks, and aj isnt the hand you want to go to war with, when you have 25bbs still, even though you are getting a great price to call there arent many flops you can hang around on except flush draws. and the shove is just never getting called by a worse hand imo. so id just dump it after the 3 bet and look for a hand you can go with... if you had 40bbs then it would be a snap call in position though. Posted by jordz16
Can't say more than this.... Tommy's positionally aware and isn't going to be 3-betting an UTG raise with less than JJ/AK for value unless he has a read that he's up against someone loose and un-positionally aware that openes too often UTG.
Interesting hand, sorry to not get back to you sooner Pad. Some great advice above as well, great work people.
Ok from my side of it: Playing with just over 25bb versus an UTG opener I am only ever doing this light against someone opening far too much and folding to lots of 3bets in position. This sort of person is rare. As to my value range I am 3betting stuff I am the vast majority of the time quite happy to go with if 4bet. Now how I would construct this range would depend entirely on the opener. There are some people I flat QQ against to go with on favourable boards. There are some people I 3bet/call off 88 and 99 against when they open UTG. Some free info for you Pad as a way to apologise for being so late with this post, my 3bet value range was TT+ AK. AQs I would probably go with, AQo peel, those two are pretty close. I would have probably peeled 77-99 to play a pot OOP (not just set mine) and folded worse pairs.
For your side of it, stacks are really awkward for you to peel my 3bet even IP, even if you didn't know I am not gonna have too many bluffs in my range or have a fairly tight value range. I mean, to play this hand you can't just be looking to hit, you'll be looking to represent as well and in order to do this it's more than likely you'd have to get the chance to and follow through with the jam move, and make it believable. That can be tough, both to pull the trigger when we miss and to get a good board to rep when you miss. With your stack I think I like a conservative fold pre to the 3bet and just look for a spot later which won't include too much guesswork.
On a side note lately I have been talking to the Hound about spots as I play them. I very much doubt this is collusion, she just stares at me and wonders why I am not giving her a biscuit. I did tell her 'We're going with this Shirl, I'm pretty sure he'll jam and we're doing ok versus that range.' It happened. She didn't even bark. Just licked my hand for a treat.
This technique is becoming more fruitful lately, as well as a possible marker to an issue with my grip on reality. We had another spot yesterday late morning. At the NL200 table I open AA UTG, see that depressing sign of fold after fold. Then I turn to her 'Sigh, well at least if XXXX raises it means he has Kings (the BB player, for reasons of niceness I have left his name out). The BB did 3bet. He did have Kings. I held, the BB player moaned and The Hound pulled at the bottom of my trousers with her teeth, reminding me it was indeed lunchtime.
Interesting hand, sorry to not get back to you sooner Pad. Some great advice above as well, great work people. Ok from my side of it: Playing with just over 25bb versus an UTG opener I am only ever doing this light against someone opening far too much and folding to lots of 3bets in position. This sort of person is rare. As to my value range I am 3betting stuff I am the vast majority of the time quite happy to go wit With your stack I think I like a conservative fold pre to the 3bet and just look for a spot later which won't include too much guesswork. Posted by TommyD
No need Tommy. Thanx for replying @ 4 a.m.!!!! Some good advice/tips. When I first reviewed the hand I did come to your conclusion. I think I just needed confirmation tbh. Thanx for the other replies. Thats why I love playing here.
P
p.s. Not too many biscuits between meals for Shirl tho. It's a slippery slope and it's VERY embarrassing when vet says "My my, haven't we put on a lotta weight!" :-(
So far in the few games ive played at tommys table it very simple and easy too play against him. If tommy calls i fold. If tommy is still too act after me i fold. If tommy raises i fold quicker. If tommy bets and i have aa. I fold. I also play these rules against certain other players. mattbates Divsdreams Geldy Hyyhtyyfyftfffftyrrrrrrrttyhhyryrydddtttrr. Posted by Chris_Mc
nice range merging.
Matt at the loose end
Tommy at the tight
GELDY somewhere in between
but who knows where Harry is?
Very tough to fold to the 3 bet, maybe calling is a leak but it is a nutting hand that might get paid off.
but shipping against a very good player like tommyd is probably the worst option unless you were shorter stacked.
And we're back. This time hopefully for a long run. The times they are a changing.
I've changed my profile pic for the first time since joining the forum. GG Rorschach, for now at least. If anyone reading has never read the Alan Moore graphic novel Watchmen, go get it. For me it is a literary classic with pointed and cutting social commentary from the 1980's and is still so very relevant in the modern day, maybe even more so now.
Anyone new to my diary, a huge welcome. For old timers, glad you're still here. This is a great jumping on point, it's basically gonna be a reboot from this point on.
What's the new profile pic? I'm glad you asked, voice in my head. That's a still taken from the motion poster for the upcoming Netflix and Marvel series Daredevil. For newbies to these pages I am a complete comic book geek as well as an avid movie fan (across all genres from Super Hero to art house indy brilliance). Of all the comic book characters I have read, the two who I really connected with myself were Rorschach and Daredevil.
Rorschach is a fascinating character. While my own political views are decidedly left of centre, he is a radical right winger, but without the 'isms' or prejudice. He also has a seemingly unattainably strict moral code with zero shades of grey, everything is either good or evil, which he expects everyone to adhere to. Essentially in his view the ends can never justify the means. A moral compass which is explored and tested to the ultimate ends in Watchmen. Seriously, go read it. If you feel embarrassed buying a graphic novel go take a copy of Heat or Razzle or something to hide it in on your way out.
Back to the new pic. Matt Murdoch AKA DareDevil was blinded as a child saving an old man from that classic comic book staple, a barrel of radioactive waste. Ah MacGuffins, where would we be without you? He loses his sight but gains enhanced senses and what is essentially a sonar sense. He becomes a lawyer by day and a crimefighter by night. I always loved the exploration of the character, it was so much grittier than your Spiderman, Superman or even Batman books of the time. Example? One storyline saw Matt's ex-girlfriend sell his secret identity to a drug dealer in exchange for crack after failing as a mainstream actress and falling into performing 'romance movies.' And this was in the mid 1980s. For those of you from the Game Of Thrones TV generation where you can't have a wedding without an exposed **** and a few heart stabs, at the time this was unheard of, especially from the USA where one Jackson nipple at a Superbowl can seemingly nearly end civilization as we know it.
I've changed the profile pic as I think my mental state needs to move towards that guy right now. Work hard. Work harder than anyone else. I've been too lazy at poker the last few months. Take the hits of disappointment and build again, I'm getting too bogged down with the swongs and my mental attitude has been sloppy. And be much more daring. Just back from the UKPC where I think I played a very good day 1 but the day 2, just was not daring. Just didn't play how I should have. I need to find that spark again, so to remind me, there's the profile pic.
Anyway, I ramble. 13 episodes of the new DD series starring Charlie Cox from Broadwalk Empire fame is dropping on Netflix on April 10th, expect me to babble constantly in the run up to this. If you're curious, go watch the motion posters on marvel.com, go watch the trailer and see if you're excited.
oh and I promise the next post I make will be about poker
For those of you who don't know I went to Las Vegas for my first and to date only time with SkyPoker a few years ago as part of the Viva Las Vegas Priority promo. They did a rakerace, which I documented here to qualify for a freeroll with one package up top. I was dumb-luckedly fortunate enough to bink it. So while a few people had spent a decent amount of money to go to Vegas I got the mouth-wateringly fabulous package for free, like a ***'ll Fix It competition winner. You can't mention that name or show. Why? Society has decided it's much more comfortable trying to erase him from history rather than have to face up to series of mistakes and negligence so many people committed for so long to allow such evil. Ok then, gotcha. Thanks for the info. You're welcome.
Anyway where was I? Oh yeah, Vegas Baby!!
So I am going for the Viva Las Vegas packages this year. yes plural, gonna try for the sidey and the main event ones to combine as some long Vegas trip which will no doubt leave me in the end as a blubbering collection of meat and poor choices. Really up for this.
There have already been a lot of posts on this forum about the promo, ranging from negative through positive. Here's my take.
The smaller package has many more seats. Yes there are tailor made sub-promos for cash and SnG players. And yes it does feel a little bit funny that I can name you at least six of the eight weekly winners from the two league formats right now. However those are benefits are in my opinion justified for the long term grinders of the site. And there are many more smaller packages available for rec players which everyone has a shot at. Would I like something like a MTT league where it's all about average ROI over a 150 game two month cycle for a few packages? Yes I would, but I can see the thinking behind how the current format is set up and I fully support it.
And the most important point, the big one, the £10k VLV packages, they are as it stands on a completely level playing for the most occasional recreational player right up to the grindiest of grinding regs. From a purely personal and selfish point of view, I hate how the big one is all or nothing on one tournament. However, from a business point of view and that of complete fairness for everyone, it is bang on the right and most level thing for SkyPoker to do. I hate it on that base personal and self centred level because if the packages were spread over a few semi finals I would have a much better chance being able to buy in direct for each (as well as qualify from a higher tier). In an all or nothing one shot I could well crash and burn again like the Punta Cana qualifier and be first out to a couple of nasty coolers.
So I like the promo as is. It should be a lot of fun. And it's the best shot I have seen in a while for someone to get to Vegas and play in what is an absolute chapel of a poker setting for free. And I'll be taking a shot at it, while diarying all of the ups and downs right here.
So what's the criteria of the updates then? You will see a nearly daily report with profit/loss, VLV progress, general thoughts and if it all goes wrong, tears. Many tears. In pixel form though so sweet!
'I could deny, but I'll never realise. I've been chasing rainbows all my life.'
Comments
Ok from my side of it: Playing with just over 25bb versus an UTG opener I am only ever doing this light against someone opening far too much and folding to lots of 3bets in position. This sort of person is rare. As to my value range I am 3betting stuff I am the vast majority of the time quite happy to go with if 4bet. Now how I would construct this range would depend entirely on the opener. There are some people I flat QQ against to go with on favourable boards. There are some people I 3bet/call off 88 and 99 against when they open UTG. Some free info for you Pad as a way to apologise for being so late with this post, my 3bet value range was TT+ AK. AQs I would probably go with, AQo peel, those two are pretty close. I would have probably peeled 77-99 to play a pot OOP (not just set mine) and folded worse pairs.
For your side of it, stacks are really awkward for you to peel my 3bet even IP, even if you didn't know I am not gonna have too many bluffs in my range or have a fairly tight value range. I mean, to play this hand you can't just be looking to hit, you'll be looking to represent as well and in order to do this it's more than likely you'd have to get the chance to and follow through with the jam move, and make it believable. That can be tough, both to pull the trigger when we miss and to get a good board to rep when you miss. With your stack I think I like a conservative fold pre to the 3bet and just look for a spot later which won't include too much guesswork.
This technique is becoming more fruitful lately, as well as a possible marker to an issue with my grip on reality. We had another spot yesterday late morning. At the NL200 table I open AA UTG, see that depressing sign of fold after fold. Then I turn to her 'Sigh, well at least if XXXX raises it means he has Kings (the BB player, for reasons of niceness I have left his name out). The BB did 3bet. He did have Kings. I held, the BB player moaned and The Hound pulled at the bottom of my trousers with her teeth, reminding me it was indeed lunchtime.
I've changed my profile pic for the first time since joining the forum. GG Rorschach, for now at least. If anyone reading has never read the Alan Moore graphic novel Watchmen, go get it. For me it is a literary classic with pointed and cutting social commentary from the 1980's and is still so very relevant in the modern day, maybe even more so now.
Anyone new to my diary, a huge welcome. For old timers, glad you're still here. This is a great jumping on point, it's basically gonna be a reboot from this point on.
What's the new profile pic? I'm glad you asked, voice in my head. That's a still taken from the motion poster for the upcoming Netflix and Marvel series Daredevil. For newbies to these pages I am a complete comic book geek as well as an avid movie fan (across all genres from Super Hero to art house indy brilliance). Of all the comic book characters I have read, the two who I really connected with myself were Rorschach and Daredevil.
Rorschach is a fascinating character. While my own political views are decidedly left of centre, he is a radical right winger, but without the 'isms' or prejudice. He also has a seemingly unattainably strict moral code with zero shades of grey, everything is either good or evil, which he expects everyone to adhere to. Essentially in his view the ends can never justify the means. A moral compass which is explored and tested to the ultimate ends in Watchmen. Seriously, go read it. If you feel embarrassed buying a graphic novel go take a copy of Heat or Razzle or something to hide it in on your way out.
Back to the new pic. Matt Murdoch AKA DareDevil was blinded as a child saving an old man from that classic comic book staple, a barrel of radioactive waste. Ah MacGuffins, where would we be without you? He loses his sight but gains enhanced senses and what is essentially a sonar sense. He becomes a lawyer by day and a crimefighter by night. I always loved the exploration of the character, it was so much grittier than your Spiderman, Superman or even Batman books of the time. Example? One storyline saw Matt's ex-girlfriend sell his secret identity to a drug dealer in exchange for crack after failing as a mainstream actress and falling into performing 'romance movies.' And this was in the mid 1980s. For those of you from the Game Of Thrones TV generation where you can't have a wedding without an exposed **** and a few heart stabs, at the time this was unheard of, especially from the USA where one Jackson nipple at a Superbowl can seemingly nearly end civilization as we know it.
I've changed the profile pic as I think my mental state needs to move towards that guy right now. Work hard. Work harder than anyone else. I've been too lazy at poker the last few months. Take the hits of disappointment and build again, I'm getting too bogged down with the swongs and my mental attitude has been sloppy. And be much more daring. Just back from the UKPC where I think I played a very good day 1 but the day 2, just was not daring. Just didn't play how I should have. I need to find that spark again, so to remind me, there's the profile pic.
Anyway, I ramble. 13 episodes of the new DD series starring Charlie Cox from Broadwalk Empire fame is dropping on Netflix on April 10th, expect me to babble constantly in the run up to this. If you're curious, go watch the motion posters on marvel.com, go watch the trailer and see if you're excited.
oh and I promise the next post I make will be about poker
For those of you who don't know I went to Las Vegas for my first and to date only time with SkyPoker a few years ago as part of the Viva Las Vegas Priority promo. They did a rakerace, which I documented here to qualify for a freeroll with one package up top. I was dumb-luckedly fortunate enough to bink it. So while a few people had spent a decent amount of money to go to Vegas I got the mouth-wateringly fabulous package for free, like a ***'ll Fix It competition winner. You can't mention that name or show. Why? Society has decided it's much more comfortable trying to erase him from history rather than have to face up to series of mistakes and negligence so many people committed for so long to allow such evil. Ok then, gotcha. Thanks for the info. You're welcome.
Anyway where was I? Oh yeah, Vegas Baby!!
So I am going for the Viva Las Vegas packages this year. yes plural, gonna try for the sidey and the main event ones to combine as some long Vegas trip which will no doubt leave me in the end as a blubbering collection of meat and poor choices. Really up for this.
There have already been a lot of posts on this forum about the promo, ranging from negative through positive. Here's my take.
The smaller package has many more seats. Yes there are tailor made sub-promos for cash and SnG players. And yes it does feel a little bit funny that I can name you at least six of the eight weekly winners from the two league formats right now. However those are benefits are in my opinion justified for the long term grinders of the site. And there are many more smaller packages available for rec players which everyone has a shot at. Would I like something like a MTT league where it's all about average ROI over a 150 game two month cycle for a few packages? Yes I would, but I can see the thinking behind how the current format is set up and I fully support it.
And the most important point, the big one, the £10k VLV packages, they are as it stands on a completely level playing for the most occasional recreational player right up to the grindiest of grinding regs. From a purely personal and selfish point of view, I hate how the big one is all or nothing on one tournament. However, from a business point of view and that of complete fairness for everyone, it is bang on the right and most level thing for SkyPoker to do. I hate it on that base personal and self centred level because if the packages were spread over a few semi finals I would have a much better chance being able to buy in direct for each (as well as qualify from a higher tier). In an all or nothing one shot I could well crash and burn again like the Punta Cana qualifier and be first out to a couple of nasty coolers.
So I like the promo as is. It should be a lot of fun. And it's the best shot I have seen in a while for someone to get to Vegas and play in what is an absolute chapel of a poker setting for free. And I'll be taking a shot at it, while diarying all of the ups and downs right here.
Good luck us.
'I could deny, but I'll never realise. I've been chasing rainbows all my life.'