wager all your chips. stare the cold caller down. tell him you'll show if he folds. you know the usual gubbins. then win a flip= profits. Posted by beaneh
I folded, thought I had zero FE and I just thought I was in bad shape & didn't fancy for what I thought was a flip at best for the chip lead
Then I run around the room hitting myself in the face for such a bad fold
The only part of the result that matters is that your oppo did the flat call with AK. we should learn from that in terms of how to play him in the future.
the fact ak bricks this time should be of no consequence it's all about the equities.
The only part of the result that matters is that your oppo did the flat call with AK. we should learn from that in terms of how to play him in the future. the fact ak bricks this time should be of no consequence it's all about the equities. The initial raise can be smaller too imo. Posted by beaneh
With the limpage? Question, not looking for an argument today............
The only part of the result that matters is that your oppo did the flat call with AK. we should learn from that in terms of how to play him in the future. the fact ak bricks this time should be of no consequence it's all about the equities. The initial raise can be smaller too imo. Posted by beaneh
Yep
& "The initial raise can be smaller too imo."
really, with the limper I thought I'd step it up a bit from the standard min raise Thinking up it a bit if limper & if we are oop - UTG for example - is this correct for MTT
how much of a difference is there in a 2x to a 3x after a limper, when all effective stacks are so short? Posted by beaneh
I see - but raising less does this not give a better price to players behind to call and also when it comes back round to the limper then the price is even better if I get a call behind -
In Response to Re: MTT shove/fold/call : I see - but raising less does this not give a better price to players behind to call and also when it comes back round to the limper then the price is even better if I get a call behind - Is my thinking off here - set me straight plz Posted by rancid
yes it gives a better price, but if they are already drawing at a relative long shot, increasing their implied odds by a small fraction is meaningless. by reducing the size of our isolation raise we have to have them fold less often preflop for the raise to be intrinsically profitable regardless of whether we have a hand. When we do have a hand it's just fun times.
In Response to Re: MTT shove/fold/call : yes it gives a better price, but if they are already drawing at a relative long shot, increasing their implied odds by a small fraction is meaningless. by reducing the size of our isolation raise we have to have them fold less often preflop for the raise to be intrinsically profitable regardless of whether we have a hand. When we do have a hand it's just fun times. Posted by beaneh
Yeah makes sense, so even with limper we keep our standard raise size the same ?
Do we not adjust size of raise relative to position and/or any limpers like in cash ?
Something I am struggling with cause while keeping raise sizes small and the same for balance and keeping it profitable in the way you explain above puts me in spots where I am not sure how much to raise.
So example - been opening a bit with min raises from mp - late positions and generally picking it up easily or getting resistance and then just letting go Then I look down at AA UTG, feel I should just min raise - but think emmm need to bump it up kinda caught in this dilema - help
so 3x compared to 2x helps build the pot, gives people a worse price on their initial call etc
in tournaments if we are deep we have 40 bb lol
so 2x now seems big if we are looking for implied odds etc so the difference between 3x and 2x shallow is much greater than when deepstacked at cash.
Raise the same with Aces as you would when you happen to open K2s KJo 44 96o. Against people who wont notice you 2x everyhand make it 72x with dem aces innit
how much of a difference is there in a 2x to a 3x after a limper, when all effective stacks are so short? Posted by beaneh
GTBH didnt really fully agree with this @ time but didnt feel like getting into a pleasant debate about it
Logic was: Surely we are virtually always inviting BB & limper into 3 way pot post, where we now have to get our hand through two opponents, albeit IP.
Have toyed with it over last week as have been fortunate enough to be going deep in a few MTT's (but logic seems to work just aswell in shallow end of S+G). Previously would have made raise to 3 - 3.5x with limpage - whether just punting to isolate limper IP or with a real hand.
Dropped it down to my mostly standard 2.2ishx (as you lay out) with limpage and works out pretty much exactly the same, but giving us alot of benefits pre & post. Same ranges of hands ship on us - losing less when weak, & inducing action when we want it, but helping us maintain the image we want also.
We know we are just going for value or looking to pick pot up IP on a later street vs c/f'er. So we dont chase out value when strong + get hands through cheaper when weak, while also opening up windows of opportunity for ourselves But being indistinguishable to oppos
So grudgingly have to say "TY" to beaneh..........................SIGH.................................
In Response to Re: MTT shove/fold/call : GTBH didnt really fully agree with this @ time but didnt feel like getting into a pleasant debate about it Logic was: Surely we are virtually always inviting BB & limper into 3 way pot post, where we now have to get our hand through two opponents, albeit IP. Have toyed with it over last week as have been fortunate enough to be going deep in a few MTT's (but logic seems to work just aswell in shallow end of S+G). Previously would have made raise to 3 - 3.5x with limpage - whether just punting to isolate limper IP or with a real hand. Dropped it down to my mostly standard 2.2ishx (as you lay out) with limpage and works out pretty much exactly the same, but giving us alot of benefits pre & post. Same ranges of hands ship on us - losing less when weak, & inducing action when we want it, but helping us maintain the image we want also. We know we are just going for value or looking to pick pot up IP on a later street vs c/f'er. So we dont chase out value when strong + get hands through cheaper when weak, while also opening up windows of opportunity for ourselves But being indistinguishable to oppos So grudgingly have to say "TY" to beaneh..........................SIGH................................. Posted by AMYBR
lol why so begruding? because it's me or because you don't like being wrong.
Actually though beaneh's account had been hacked this week..........
More and more I toy with the approach more I see the benefits tbh.
It just boils down to the fact that the more confident/aggressive plyers will be giving themselves even more opportunities to take pots down with minimal/less risk - when both shallow & deep. Am ridic aggro in LP anyway online, it is just is helping me stimulate action & reduce spewage. Pretty much going to be playing 58 as KK stacked/ not stacked in LP...myeh maybe early pos based on table.
True we are giving oppos more favourable price to get involved, but same spectrum of players would get involved even without favourable odds with same ranges of hands. Scaled down pot size = lower cbet/vb. Lower vb isnt essentialy a bad thing in terms of oppos perception of our FE either and multiple streets of value.
Going to put it to work in a few live MTTs this week also
Comments
Then I run around the room hitting myself in the face for such a bad fold
Then I thought maybe it was ok
Then I convinced myself it was
Then I posted this fred
Then thought I should have shoved
& folded
& called
Now I am still not sure
lolz poker
The initial raise can be smaller too imo.
Yep
& "The initial raise can be smaller too imo."
really, with the limper I thought I'd step it up a bit from the standard min raise
Thinking up it a bit if limper & if we are oop - UTG for example - is this correct for MTT
Is my thinking off here - set me straight plz
Yeah makes sense, so even with limper we keep our standard raise size the same ?
Do we not adjust size of raise relative to position and/or any limpers like in cash ?
Something I am struggling with cause while keeping raise sizes small and the same for balance and keeping it profitable in the way you explain above puts me in spots where I am not sure how much to raise.
So example - been opening a bit with min raises from mp - late positions and generally picking it up easily or getting resistance and then just letting go
Then I look down at AA UTG, feel I should just min raise - but think emmm need to bump it up
kinda caught in this dilema - help
sometimes get my cash play mixed up with MTT play and vice versa
Note to self: Effective stack! WORD!
Logic was: Surely we are virtually always inviting BB & limper into 3 way pot post, where we now have to get our hand through two opponents, albeit IP.
Have toyed with it over last week as have been fortunate enough to be going deep in a few MTT's (but logic seems to work just aswell in shallow end of S+G). Previously would have made raise to 3 - 3.5x with limpage - whether just punting to isolate limper IP or with a real hand.
Dropped it down to my mostly standard 2.2ishx (as you lay out) with limpage and works out pretty much exactly the same, but giving us alot of benefits pre & post. Same ranges of hands ship on us - losing less when weak, & inducing action when we want it, but helping us maintain the image we want also.
We know we are just going for value or looking to pick pot up IP on a later street vs c/f'er. So we dont chase out value when strong + get hands through cheaper when weak, while also opening up windows of opportunity for ourselves But being indistinguishable to oppos
So grudgingly have to say "TY" to beaneh..........................SIGH.................................
Have never minded being wrong.
But hey-ho, was happy enough to go off and experiment with it and then comment
Actually though beaneh's account had been hacked this week..........
More and more I toy with the approach more I see the benefits tbh.
It just boils down to the fact that the more confident/aggressive plyers will be giving themselves even more opportunities to take pots down with minimal/less risk - when both shallow & deep. Am ridic aggro in LP anyway online, it is just is helping me stimulate action & reduce spewage. Pretty much going to be playing 58 as KK stacked/ not stacked in LP...myeh maybe early pos based on table.
True we are giving oppos more favourable price to get involved, but same spectrum of players would get involved even without favourable odds with same ranges of hands. Scaled down pot size = lower cbet/vb. Lower vb isnt essentialy a bad thing in terms of oppos perception of our FE either and multiple streets of value.
Going to put it to work in a few live MTTs this week also