why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

 Ive beaten much harder opponents consistantly
Posted by The_Don90

You haven't and you're kidding yourself if you think you have.

I hope tintin sees this thread and posts, he was like 200 buy ins up at nl4 last month I think.

Would take some epic run good to be 200 buy ins up at a level that's unbeatable.

Same convos/threads/excuses as you were coming out with this time last year. It's no co-incidence that you have the same bankroll also. 

simonnatur

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : i actually have no problem multitabling on other sites. The flash system of sky and my computer just seem to hate eachother and lag starts, the amount of time im UTG and folded or being in SB and despite auto post being on the blind just doesnt post. So the issue is actually LAG. In decemeber i was tabling between 6 and 9 tables for 6 hours a day. But i found that the first 3-4 hours where very profitable then the last two, im not sure why, im guessing fatige id just lose everything. As a result after a week of this i sort of gave up. If id have continued i suspect the C4P alone would have made up for that and gave me a strong monthly profit. However i think i will go back to this, just with the rules of having at least 2 days off per week allowing me to refresh. I will be unlikley to move up stragiht away as i will be upgrading my PC at the earlist possible opportunity. As a resiult my plan is to start with £200 and i think ill withdraw £500 once i hit £1000. My pc is hand built so much better standard than what id have got in the shops for the price when i got it. As a result i rekon £500 would give me a pretty decent spec pc. I built this one 5 years ago for under £350 and it still plays all of todays games only needing to lower settings on some games.
Posted by The_Don90

As with so many of your posts you identify an issue which would be easy to remedy. (play shorter sessions, do something else for an hour or two and come back refreshed) Instead of remedying it you "sort of gave up"

You just need to find what works for you, don't think you need to grind out 40 hours a week

The_Don90

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : As with so many of your posts you identify an issue which would be easy to remedy. (play shorter sessions, do something else for an hour or two and come back refreshed) Instead of remedying it you "sort of gave up" You just need to find what works for you, don't think you need to grind out 40 hours a week
Posted by simonnatur

Its actually weird saying that i struggle with long sessions. My biggest mtt results (i have an mtt background with reasonable sucsess - mostly on another site) have all been long ournaments.

However obviously this means gear changing and im allowed to play lag and represent a hand, or put an opponent to the test. All things that are massive no-nos at NL4. These are probably my 3 best poker traits imo, and thats obviously as a result costing me at NL4.

rancid

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : You haven't and you're kidding yourself if you think you have. I hope tintin sees this thread and posts, he was like 200 buy ins up at nl4 last month I think. Would take some epic run good to be 200 buy ins up at a level that's unbeatable. Same convos/threads/excuses as you were coming out with this time last year. It's no co-incidence that you have the same bankroll also. 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

+1 drop the FPS and beat NL4 - if you cant' beat NL4 then you got no chance in cash poker

I have beaten NL4 by playing like a rock and also like a aggro monkey so.................
Not sure what I can say anymore.................

NL4 is the easiest level to beat, seriously !

Don you think you have more game than NL4, which you probaly do but you don't need a great game to beat NL4 - just play solid

TINTIN

ive been made aware of this thread by someone on twitter and have been asked to post some thoughts. im gonna re read the whole thread coz i cant believe its got this long so i dont want to say too much just now.

all i will say just now is, i am a massive winner at this level over a long period so i guess i know a thing or 2 in how to beat it.

and what dohhhhh said above i finished march around £750 up just at nl4

TINTIN

i really cant believe this topic is being brought up again. i will say this again, NL4 is easily beatable its all about volume.

this year alone i reckon ive played in the region of 300k hands and of the top of my head im showing a profit of around £1200-£1300 from nl4.

i know myself that i am not a good player, i'd class myself as compentent as whenever i try higher levels i instantly become the table fish but thats for me to work on myself.

nl4 is all about patience. there is soo much bad play around you just need to sit there n money will eventually fall to you.

Pipunch

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

ive been made aware of this thread by someone on twitter and have been asked to post some thoughts. im gonna re read the whole thread coz i cant believe its got this long so i dont want to say too much just now. all i will say just now is, i am a massive winner at this level over a long period so i guess i know a thing or 2 in how to beat it. and what dohhhhh said above i finished march around £750 up just at nl4
Posted by TINTIN

Over what period was the £750 made?

No doubting you, i see you winning constantly on the tables, just curious as i start to build my own roll up at this level.

TINTIN

from looking at the hands don posted, most of it isnt unusual. there is a couple played horribly but others have already mentioned about them so no point going over it again.

i do think don tries to over analyze things too much for this level. sometimes you just gotta take the beat n move on to the nxt hand.

TINTIN

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Over what period was the £750 made? No doubting you, i see you winning constantly on the tables, just curious as i start to build my own roll up at this level.
Posted by Pipunch

that was just in march

Pipunch

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : that was just in march
Posted by TINTIN

Wow. That is phenomenal. I know you win cause every game i see you in you're sat there with £6+ but i didn't think it was that much!

TINTIN

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Wow. That is phenomenal. I know you win cause every game i see you in you're sat there with £6+ but i didn't think it was that much!
Posted by Pipunch

i was running good as well, you take heaters when you get them, that was an exceptional month i will admit it. a usual month is normally between £200-£300 for the grind. it sounds a lot but so is the amount of hands i play

3barrels

play super nitty and it will come i suppose if u play loose aggro you wont get far at this level maybe im wrong

Lambert180

I literally don't have any idea what more can be said on this topic that hasn't been said again and again for 12+ months.

Bet big hands, fold small ones, don't semi-bluff draws, just check/call (if you have the odds), make your hand, pile in the money. Sometimes you get bad beated, put note on player saying 'idiot called my shove with a gutshot', then rinse and repeat.

TINTIN

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

I literally don't have any idea what more can be said on this topic that hasn't been said again and again for 12+ months. Bet big hands, fold small ones, don't semi-bluff draws, just check/call (if you have the odds), make your hand, pile in the money. Sometimes you get bad beated, put note on player saying 'idiot called my shove with a gutshot', then rinse and repeat.
Posted by Lambert180

you pretty much nailed it.

WHOAMI196

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGMn4LUhalI&feature=g-user-u&context=G287ce8bUCGXQYbcTJ33ZrtdeQrEIeN6_qx1YXrcRbr4z6p49sD5U

Good video for you micro players out there.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : i was running good as well, you take heaters when you get them, that was an exceptional month i will admit it. a usual month is normally between £200-£300 for the grind. it sounds a lot but so is the amount of hands i play
Posted by TINTIN

Aside from all this moaning abuot 4NL being unbeatable... I'd say 95%+ of us know that's nonsense but I must say TinTin, that is a mighty fine month's worth of profit from 4NL!!

How many tables do you play and how many hours dya do a day/week/month if you don't mind me asking?

Also, I always said that it was virtually impossible to get anything meaningful from C4P via 4NL but if you've played 300k in 2012 alone, you must have earned a few points along the way... what's an average number of poker points for you at 4NL in a month?

The_Don90

Ok hope not to bore you. I had a session before. I had £13 in account and spoke to dohhh, i said id short multitable giving me some leeway. He suggested just play 3 tables with the max. i reluctantly accepted on the basis that he'd watch via team viewer. this way we could discuss as we go.

Ill post some hands, as i still finnished down, although i think these are all pretty standard but would still like some discussion.

Hand 1) Not actually happy with my play pre but i knew one oppo would likley pay me if i hit. Although still not happy with it.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Brode	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.28
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.07
	Your hole cards	10 Q
daviddev17	Fold
lowlife	Fold
MARYBOBBIN	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£1.83
Brode	Call		£0.10	£0.28	£3.18
The_Don90	Call		£0.08	£0.36	£2.99
Flop
		K 10 2
Brode	Bet		£0.04	£0.40	£3.14
The_Don90	Call		£0.04	£0.44	£2.95
MARYBOBBIN	Call		£0.04	£0.48	£1.79
Turn
		Q
Brode	Bet		£0.04	£0.52	£3.10
The_Don90	Raise		£0.46	£0.98	£2.49
MARYBOBBIN	Fold
Brode	Call		£0.42	£1.40	£2.68
River
		4
Brode	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£1.05	£2.45	£1.44
Brode	Call		£1.05	£3.50	£1.63
The_Don90	Show	10 Q
Brode	Muck	10 J
The_Don90	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 10s	£3.23		£4.67

hand 2) Id been having a pretty bad session to be fair. When i seen this hand decided just to go with it so i wasnt sitting around with 25BB any more. There was no reload back.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
padzmac	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.24
jbpoker	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.80
	Your hole cards	7 7
The_Don90	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£0.92
clubhammer	Fold
padzmac	Fold
jbpoker	All-in		£2.80	£3.06	£0.00
The_Don90	All-in		£0.92	£3.98	£0.00
jbpoker	Unmatched bet		£1.72	£2.26	£1.72
jbpoker	Show	K 10
The_Don90	Show	7 7
Flop
		5 5 4
Turn
		Q
River
		9
The_Don90	Win	Two Pairs, 7s and 5s	£2.09		£2.09

Hand 3) Early in the session and a common problem. This was my third biggest hand profitwise the other 2 are above. Flop i checked back as i dont think opponents are hitting that flop much, plus other than gutshots its pretty safe. The turn my bet sizing i feel was a little out.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
clemo1980	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.08
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	7 7
jbpoker	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£7.26
The_Don90	Call		£0.12	£0.30	£3.84
clubhammer	Fold
clemo1980	Call		£0.10	£0.40	£1.98
Wilhelm	Call		£0.08	£0.48	£3.88
Flop
		7 4 2
clemo1980	Check
Wilhelm	Check
jbpoker	Check
The_Don90	Check
Turn
		Q
clemo1980	Check
Wilhelm	Bet		£0.30	£0.78	£3.58
jbpoker	Call		£0.30	£1.08	£6.96
The_Don90	Raise		£1.34	£2.42	£2.50
clemo1980	Fold
Wilhelm	Fold
jbpoker	Fold
The_Don90	Muck
The_Don90	Win		£1.27		£3.77
The_Don90	Return		£1.04	£0.11	£4.81

Hand 4) Last winning hand im going to show. This particular villian was calling bigger and bigger openings, so much so i increased my open every hand. By this time he was actually getting short and i decided just to set him in pre, almost double what my previous raise size had got to but felt it was correct.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
The_Don90	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.36
daviddev17	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.66
	Your hole cards	A K
greenace	Fold
MARYBOBBIN	Fold
Brode	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£0.70
The_Don90	Raise		£0.74	£0.84	£3.62
daviddev17	Fold
Brode	All-in		£0.70	£1.54	£0.00
The_Don90	Unmatched bet		£0.02	£1.52	£3.64
The_Don90	Show	A K
Brode	Show	J Q
Flop
		K 8 K
Turn
		10
River
		2
The_Don90	Win	Three Kings	£1.40		£5.04

Hand 5) Just a cooler i think. AQ looks pretty safe most of the time on this board. but im open to discussion

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
chelseashe	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£0.57
Slider73	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.11
	Your hole cards	Q A
The_Don90	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£4.03
jbpoker	Fold
clubhammer	Call		£0.20	£0.46	£5.10
cloon	Fold
chelseashe	Fold
Slider73	Fold
Flop
		7 2 Q
The_Don90	Bet		£0.35	£0.81	£3.68
clubhammer	Call		£0.35	£1.16	£4.75
Turn
		9
The_Don90	Bet		£0.87	£2.03	£2.81
clubhammer	Raise		£2.32	£4.35	£2.43
The_Don90	All-in		£2.81	£7.16	£0.00
clubhammer	Call		£1.36	£8.52	£1.07
The_Don90	Show	Q A
clubhammer	Show	2 2
River
		5
clubhammer	Win	Three 2s	£7.88		£8.95

Hand 6) Think i actually got away light here. When i seen the action i was still 3 tabling and had 3bet and thought the opponent was all in hense the flat. Obviously once no cards where flipped i was curing then missing i was cursing even more. Upon seeing cards i think i got away cheap. Open for discussion again.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
mike1959	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.18
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.44
	Your hole cards	K A
jbpoker	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£6.75
The_Don90	Raise		£0.44	£0.62	£4.34
azukira	Fold
clubhammer	Raise		£1.72	£2.34	£4.15
mike1959	All-in		£1.18	£3.52	£0.00
Wilhelm	Fold
jbpoker	Fold
The_Don90	Call		£1.28	£4.80	£3.06
Flop
		10 9 5
The_Don90	Check
clubhammer	Bet		£2.40	£7.20	£1.75
The_Don90	Fold
clubhammer	Unmatched bet		£2.40	£4.80	£4.15
mike1959	Show	8 8
clubhammer	Show	K K
Turn
		2
River
		9
clubhammer	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 9s	£4.44		£8.59

Hand 7) Final hand ill post. When i 3bet here i decided i was calling off any bets due to my stack. When the short stack called i decided that i was going to set him in on any safish looking flop. I know an over gna land most of the time but hes only got £1 back with a £1 pot. Q anded and felt the board was safe enough. Sighhh

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
The_Don90	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.71
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£6.03
	Your hole cards	J J
LethalBen	Fold
ben170583	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£1.40
jbpoker	Call		£0.12	£0.30	£5.70
The_Don90	Raise		£0.42	£0.72	£2.29
Wilhelm	Fold
ben170583	Call		£0.32	£1.04	£1.08
jbpoker	Fold
Flop
		2 3 Q
The_Don90	All-in		£2.29	£3.33	£0.00
ben170583	All-in		£1.08	£4.41	£0.00
The_Don90	Unmatched bet		£1.21	£3.20	£1.21
The_Don90	Show	J J
ben170583	Show	2 A
Turn
		6
River
		Q
ben170583	Win	Flush to the Ace	£2.96		£2.96

Please discuss these. I know most look like BBY and coolers, but that session i felt showed massive improvement, despite being 1.75BIs down. The main issue i had which isnt highlighted here was the lack of ability to get to flops with big hands, i think i had AAs and KKs a few times and never got more than 6p once.

grantorino

1 fold pre readless, postflop fine
2 fold to 3bet
3 bet flop
4 nh
5 meh I would fold readless, might be a call at 4NL
6 fold pre to cold 4b, obv jam better than flatting
7 fine with stacksizes, I might sometimes check to him, but its going in

TINTIN

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level.:

In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Aside from all this moaning abuot 4NL being unbeatable... I'd say 95%+ of us know that's nonsense but I must say TinTin, that is a mighty fine month's worth of profit from 4NL!! How many tables do you play and how many hours dya do a day/week/month if you don't mind me asking? Also, I always said that it was virtually impossible to get anything meaningful from C4P via 4NL but if you've played 300k in 2012 alone, you must have earned a few points along the way... what's an average number of poker points for you at 4NL in a month?
Posted by Lambert180

i dont mind you asking at all,

i play 6 tables but i have a computer thats badly needing updating, its around 5 yr old n 6 tables i suffer some lag or i would be trying 8, 10 or 12 tables.

my usual routine is play from around 11 in morn thru to 2 2:30 then start again around 5:30 n play thru til midnight, some nights its 2 or 3am depending if things are going well n im not tired. i do this most days.

the recent reduction in points per raked hand at nl4 has hit me harder than most if im truthfull as before 31st jan i could earn 4000 points in a couple of weeks. in march i hit 4200 for £67ish for a full month of playing, i cant remember missing a day of playing but there was a couple where i only played for a couple of hours. february i earned just over 3000 n jan under old system it was over 4000. this month im only on 2350 n in truth im not going to be playing the rest of the month. i need a break as ive been hammering it for the last 7 weeks. i will start again when i receive my nxt c4p payment. i need to recharge my brain

ive said before on other threads that i only play when im out of work hence why ive been logging so many hours in last few months

TINTIN

hand 5 against unknowns i'd call. not in this hand

hand 6. your opponent has bashed the 4x button after your 3 bet. as good as typing his hand in the chat box.