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DYM spot (please move to clinc)
jams88
Member Posts: 694
check fold flop?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| matchew | Small blind | 50.00 | 50.00 | 2277.50 | |
| c23lee | Big blind | 100.00 | 150.00 | 2242.50 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| pokermask | Fold | ||||
| jams88 | Raise | 300.00 | 450.00 | 1785.00 | |
| MITSUB | Fold | ||||
| flushoff7 | Call | 300.00 | 750.00 | 2225.00 | |
| matchew | Fold | ||||
| c23lee | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| jams88 | Check | ||||
| flushoff7 | Bet | 375.00 | 1125.00 | 1850.00 | |
| jams88 | Fold | ||||
| flushoff7 | Muck | ||||
| flushoff7 | Win | 750.00 | 2600.00 | ||
| flushoff7 | Return | 375.00 | 0.00 | 2975.00 | |
Comments
C-bet and fold to a raise, if he calls, then you can be in c/f mode I think. But when you check the flop, I think you open yourself up to being bluffed off the best hand so often.
AA is only the best starting hand but it's not always the best finishing hand ,which is the only hand that matters.
i wouldn't in this case here though with only 150 chips to win.
dev
how you have played this hand is exactly how many players would play it,
a 3x raise pre-flop
then check and fold to that bet post -flop.
and it's not the best way that you could play it.
you have basically lost 300 chips holding KK the second best pre-flop hand available to you.
that is about 1/7 or 14% of your chips
when you have KK it is likely that an ace will appear on the flop about 50% of the time.
a better way to play the hand and the same goes for QQ here too,would be;
min raise pre-flop so 100 opponent calls the 100 pot is now 350
you obviously don't like that Ace on flop, but there are 350 chips to play for,and it doesn't automatically mean that your opponent has to have an Ace himself,although it is likely likely he could.
you now bet 150/200 something around there,if your opponent has the Ace he will probably just call you here.
if he doesn't have it,he will probably fold,thinking that you have one yourself.
you then win the 350 chips.
if your opponent does have the Ace as you suspected and has called your 150/200 bet ok.
turn card comes,no king...you now check opponent probably bets and you now fold.
you have lost 250/300 chips in total.
but you are no worse off and you could have won the hand and 350 chips if as i said,he didn't have the Ace
which he won't have some of the time.
if the blinds had been bigger here say 200/400 (even 150/300 that's 450 chips about 20-25%)
then there are 600 chips 'up for grabs'
that is about 30% of your stack...you want those chips.they would put you chip leader.
you could now simply go 'all-in' here,pre-flop.
it is most likely everyone will fold.great that's what you want.
you have won all those chips with no risk.
someone would need a 'good hand' to call you.
any Ace rag should fold.
far better than having to play out the hand and seeing that horrible Ace.
ps; i re-wrote this as i wasn't particularly happy with my original post.
:)dev
pps;as played here by yourself jams,
post flop.there are 750 chips 'up for grabs'
bet 200/300 and try to win them,hoping opponent has missed his hand and folds
if he has an ACE,or pretends he has,and either calls or re-raises your bet,you then have to fold at some point,i think.
think i might be 'done in' after all my grinding lolz
i simply wasn't happy with my 1st reply after thinking the hand through clearly.
i think the post i have now posted is far easier to understand than my others
and is the best way to play it.or at least i think it is. lol
:)dev
ps....time for bed, night
i'm guessing to start off with that you possibly don't agree with me here,and i'm sorry if i've got that assumption wrong m8.
where did that number come from?
well,having just played several thousand + DYM hands,it seemed to me that after about 3 months of playing kk that this was the case.
it really took me that long b4 it became apparent to me.
i'm not saying that 50% is an exact percentage,as you will note the word 'about'.
anyway,that is how i came up with that figure,and how i then proceeded to play KK from there onwards during the last 7 weeks or so of my challenge.
i think you have to agree if you have seen my graph in one of my later posts,that playing KK this way and other hands too,would have been a contributory factor,towards this.i would therfore suggest it is the optimal way of playing them,at least for DYM play anyway.
i'm also pretty sure that it would NOT be the best or optimum way to play them when playing cash.
hope that answers your question DOH.
best wishes
dev
And yeah an Ace does not come on the flop anywhere near 50%, if you think about it the odds of an Ace coming are the same as the odds of a 2 coming or any other card, so only 3 cards come on the flop, but there's 13 cards to choose from, so there's no way the odds could be anywhere near 50%
but i think you are giving me the 'real poker odds' here as opposed to the 'on-line poker odds'
and if you think that they are the same then that's fine,but i do not.
i can not or am not allowed to say anymore than that.
as i've said,i have just played KK many many times during my challenge playing 15+ tables almost every session.
and imo an Ace seemed to come on flop ABOUT 50% of the time.
as i also said,it also took me about 3 months of playing to discover this.
and i have also only given my opinion as to the best way to play them.
it's also very easy to back up your theory with quoting me 'the correct odds'
but sometimes the 'reality' can be very different to what 'the majority' might think.
i think they once said that 'the Titanic' couldn't sink,didn't they?
(* *)
^
best wishes
dev
ps; why not prove me wrong?
take note when someone has KK and a flop is seen,and write down exactly how many times an Ace does actually get flopped.
do it 100 times.
i think then we will have a better idea.
got a feeling you might just all be surprised.
if you do prove me wrong,which i doubt,then i will give you an apology.
i'll leave it with you....