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What do you do here?

bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
edited October 2012 in The Poker Clinic
layerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceSJspanky1Small blind £0.25£0.25£45.11phil12ukBig blind £0.50£0.75£71.24 Your hole cardsJJ   ............Raise £1.50£2.25£48.58julie59Fold    rurarixFold    bearlytherCall £1.50£3.75£47.75SJspanky1Fold    phil12ukCall £1.00£4.75£70.24Flop  101010   phil12ukCheck    ............Bet £3.56£8.31£45.02bearlytherCall £3.56£11.87£44.19phil12ukFold    Turn  5   ............Bet £8.90£20.77£36.12      
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  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited October 2012
    Honest answer??

     I really don't know........
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2012

    Apparently most players define their hand on the river, so u can call again here and fold river when they jam ;)


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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited October 2012
    readless I'm calling ott and folding otr. I think his triple barreling range is narrower than his double barreling range. saying that, I doubt this guy is bluffing even on the flop 3 way, and betting the turn again with a lower pair or even 2 overs, meh, I still call. 
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited October 2012
    Call turn.

    Call a lot of rivers, fold some.

    If river is a Jack then dance a jig and jam.  If you do this and they have the case ten, post in Area 51 ;)
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited October 2012
    villain ever 3barreling with worse/bluffing? ofc i have no reads so i'm just guessing.. 
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  • liamboi11liamboi11 Member Posts: 2,141
    edited October 2012
    utg raise pre then fires flop and turn I really dunno I think fold prob best but vs some opponents I call turn and call river unless an ace or king falls on the river.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited October 2012
    I folded the turn not sure if i was right or not but i think opponant has a very narrow range which i thought was qq,kk or aa here.  Then again he could still easily barrell the turn with 8s or 9s for value thinking il call with ace high.  I just didnt think it was a good spot to get involved in.
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited October 2012
    Why has nobody mentioned 3-betting pre-flop? We have JJ on the button, Why not 3-bet pre? Take the initiative going to the flop.

    If the villian still shows strength after a 3-bet pre-flop then we can fold without a second thought.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited October 2012
    i really like flatting pre tbh
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: What do you do here?:
    Why has nobody mentioned 3-betting pre-flop? We have JJ on the button, Why not 3-bet pre? Take the initiative going to the flop. If the villian still shows strength after a 3-bet pre-flop then we can fold without a second thought.
    Posted by jugglegeek
    If i 3 bet i am folding out worse hands that i want to stay in with me and if he 4 bets hes never 4 bet bluffing im happy to play down the streets.  I would be happy to 3bet if i thought he would come back over the top with a light 4 bet with my image.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited October 2012
    Does flatting instead of 3Betting pre, therefore completely under-representing our hand, mean we have to call down on this sort of board?

    Surely a villain is happily vbetting 77-99 as well as trying to take us off the baby pairs that litter our range when they have air?

    I think we have to at least see the river.
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: What do you do here?:
    Does flatting instead of 3Betting pre, therefore completely under-representing our hand, mean we have to call down on this sort of board? Surely a villain is happily vbetting 77-99 as well as trying to take us off the baby pairs that litter our range when they have air? I think we have to at least see the river.
    Posted by TommyD
    agree! i am never folding the turn here against this player


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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: What do you do here?:
    Does flatting instead of 3Betting pre, therefore completely under-representing our hand, mean we have to call down on this sort of board? Surely a villain is happily vbetting 77-99 as well as trying to take us off the baby pairs that litter our range when they have air? I think we have to at least see the river.
    Posted by TommyD
    Yes think you are right thinking over it should have called down given how i played the hand pre.  99% of the time im always calling here something just didnt feel right against this player but yea i agree its a call.
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited October 2012
    Agree with Tommy. The way you have under-rep'd your hand we need to at least see the river and possibly showdown. If we had 3bet pre and the villain takes this line then it's an easy fold.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited October 2012
    agreed with seeing the river. 

    i have no info on villain like others seem to have so I think calling ott and folding to almost any good size bet otr is fine
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  • TPTP123TPTP123 Member Posts: 492
    edited October 2012
    If i 3 bet i am folding out worse hands that i want to stay in with me and if he 4 bets hes never 4 bet bluffing im happy to play down the streets.  I would be happy to 3bet if i thought he would come back over the top with a light 4 bet with my image.
    You should 3betting a value range of at least TT+,AQ+ in this spot.. possibly even some suited Aces that give you blockers depending on the player, Unless his opening ridic wide range UTG.  Keeping in his weaker UTG hands is pretty flawed, what is his UTG range.... 

     


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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: What do you do here?:
    You should 3betting a value range of at least TT+,AQ+ in this spot.. possibly even some suited Aces that give you blockers depending on the player, Unless his opening ridic wide range UTG.  Keeping in his weaker UTG hands is pretty flawed, what is his UTG range....   
    Posted by TPTP123
    pls explain
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited October 2012
    yes pls explain +1
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  • TPTP123TPTP123 Member Posts: 492
    edited October 2012
    Whats a standard UTG opening range? What worse hands can we keep in this range by flatting instead of 3betting, that don't call a 3bet?

    Then ask the same 2 questions to a late position open/steal... Blind(us) v BN/CO or BN(us) v CO. This us when you should be flatting to keep in worse hands because your giving villain more rope to make a mistake when we have a prem hand. 

    Our 3bet range is irrelavent, i used a value stacking off range for generic villains. Obv we tailor our 3bet range depedning on villains.. 
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited October 2012
    well its hard to give an utg range without any info on the player opening. villain will probs fold 22-1010 to a 3bet when he's oop, definitely like A9-AJ, he might flat AQs or something, he's either flatting or 4betting QQ/AK. He's also folding out hands like J10, JK, hands that we have crushed and if we hit the case J then we could scoop a big pot.

    We need villain to call our 3b enough of the time to make it more +ev than calling for when he 4bets and we more than likely have to fold. 

    I'm not even saying 3betting is bad here, but that's with the right reasoning, and I don't think you're using the right reasoning

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