BOOM! I'm back Lost on the night but chuck in a bit of rakeback and I was £1.37 up on the night. The good times are back.Great to finish the month on a high. Laptop has been confiscated again. .. Fascinating thread on another forum at the minute. Short story is 2/5 cash game. Guy bets £600 on river and drunk guy announces raise. A few seconds pass and he says "only joking" and mucks. Ruling? Posted by Jac35
Thanks for the reminder Paul.
The author of that thread is a good friend of mine, Rupinder "George" Bedi, & I'm sure he won't mind me posting the thing here.
"...2/5 game at local. I'm not playing but a huge fuss kicks off.
There's around 800 in the middle on the river of a 4 heart paired board. Player 1 has lead out for £600.
Drunk guy stares him down playing around 1250 announces loudly "RAISE" after a few seconds he laughs and says "just kidding" and tries to muck his hand. Dealer stops him and states he has to raise. Drunk guy argues that he didn't realise. Floor is called and state he has to min raise. Player grabs his chips and refuses to put them on the pot. Floor states if he doesn't put chips in he will be asked to leave to which player 2 says fine. Player 1 says whoa whoa whoa what about the £600?
Do the casino force the chips out of his hand? What happens of he just ups and leave with a the chips? Should the casino make good the money player 1 has lost?...."
The question that George Bedi posed was...... "...2/5 game at local. I'm not playing but a huge fuss kicks off. There's around 800 in the middle on the river of a 4 heart paired board. Player 1 has lead out for £600. Drunk guy stares him down playing around 1250 announces loudly "RAISE" after a few seconds he laughs and says "just kidding" and tries to muck his hand. Dealer stops him and states he has to raise. Drunk guy argues that he didn't realise. Floor is called and state he has to min raise. Player grabs his chips and refuses to put them on the pot. Floor states if he doesn't put chips in he will be asked to leave to which player 2 says fine. Player 1 says whoa whoa whoa what about the £600? Do the casino force the chips out of his hand? What happens of he just ups and leave with a the chips? Should the casino make good the money player 1 has lost?...." Posted by Tikay10
It seems as though it was just us two who found this interesting then Tony. The biggest surprise to me is that this kind of situation has never arisen in any games I've played.
What are your thoughts on it?
I'm a bit lost to be honest.
Drunk guy never actually intended to raise. Don't make him put the money in and just warn him?
Drunk guy is angle shooting. Make him put the money in?
Common sense should prevail and we should let him off? How does player 1 feel about that?
Ruling is he owes the money. He refuses to put the chips in and instead puts them in his pocket. What do we do now? We can't physically take them from him. When he reaches the cash desk and tries to cash,in we withhold the money?
If drunk guy announced at the roulette table "£600 on 17 black" and then after it fell elsewhere said "only joking" I strongly suspect the casino would ensure they got their money.
The rest of the table say to let him off, it was a mistake. What's the feeling around the table an hour later when he's stacked them all and pulled the same trick again?
What do we think would have happened if player 1 had insta mucked having heard "raise"?
There must be some way of physically removing the chips, what would happen if someone just grabbed at some chips off the table or someone else's stack? Wouldn't be pretty that's for sure. Key here I think is assessing the intention. Can the dealer/floor influence their decision based on what they believe the player's standard is?? Because if it's an angle shoot then he's treating as a sort of freeroll misclick. Interesting that a few seconds passed. Given the other player didn't snap call him off there's a chance the raise would've got through!
Always going to be mistakes live, I like to see common sense prevail, but tough one this
In Response to Re: Ramblings of an old man : It seems as though it was just us two who found this interesting then Tony. The biggest surprise to me is that this kind of situation has never arisen in any games I've played. What are your thoughts on it? I'm a bit lost to be honest. Drunk guy never actually intended to raise. Don't make him put the money in and just warn him? Drunk guy is angle shooting. Make him put the money in? Common sense should prevail and we should let him off? How does player 1 feel about that? Ruling is he owes the money. He refuses to put the chips in and instead puts them in his pocket. What do we do now? We can't physically take them from him. When he reaches the cash desk and tries to cash,in we withhold the money? If drunk guy announced at the roulette table "£600 on 17 black" and then after it fell elsewhere said "only joking" I strongly suspect the casino would ensure they got their money. The rest of the table say to let him off, it was a mistake. What's the feeling around the table an hour later when he's stacked them all and pulled the same trick again? What do we think would have happened if player 1 had insta mucked having heard "raise"? Posted by Jac35
Bolded part. There is not a hope in **** I would let them get away with that either he pays or the casino does. Harsh but he wouldn't do it again.
Bear in mind I say this as a pittance-stakes player that has hardly ever played in a casino...
The way the post is written it sounds like the guy was purely having a bit of fun, the sort of thing that a lot of people probably do in home games with no angle shooting intentions.
For me, if there is a want for recs to get involved in games then poker needs to be accessible and, most of all, fun for them to take part in.
Being too onerous with rules (of which there appear to be a very large number) will be the opposite of that. I mean, drunk comes and sits at your game (you rub hands with glee), do you really expect him to read a whole poker rule book to know and understand every rule before he plays? Or are you happy for him to just get stuck straight in? If it's the latter, is that a sort of angle shoot, pre-empting that you'll catch him out in some way with a ruling he's unaware of?
Sure it's a learning experience for the guy involved if he has to give up the cash, but for the longer term health of the game it would seem better value to warn him rather than have him leave the casino feeling like he's just been 'robbed' of several hundred quid and that being enough to put him (and maybe others) off from coming back and playing again.
Obv if it happens after a warning or if someone who was present read it in a more sinister light, then yeah, he has to be taken to town.
ps the wealth of live rules is a large part of why I haven't gone to play live more often, would be paranoid of either a) falling foul of one of them or b) local reg/regs making up a feasible-sounding rule that I'd be too naive to realise was them just conning me out of a few quid.
ps the wealth of live rules is a large part of why I haven't gone to play live more often, would be paranoid of either a) falling foul of one of them or b) local reg/regs making up a feasible-sounding rule that I'd be too naive to realise was them just conning me out of a few quid. Posted by shakinaces
If I'm telling you how to suck eggs here then feel to tell me to sod off.
Please don't be put off playing live by this sort of thing. In my experience it's very rare.
You're in a great location regarding live poker. DTD have beginners comps (don't be patronised by that) nightly. They're a great way of getting to grips with live poker at small cost. The idea of these comps is to encourage new live players. Everyone is in the same boat and the dealers are very committed to helping people understand some of the nuances of live play.
Live cash games usually start at 50/1. You'd be amazed at the standard. I would suggest that a decent 10nl player online would have a decent edge at 50/1 live. However, DTD cash games at 50/1 can be tough and we need to be selective. These days I tend to play cash at my local Genting. Even I can win at these games!
...
Things have changed dramatically since I've started playing live. Don't worry about regs making decisions. It's rare now they games are not dealer dealt and they will look after the table just fine.
When I first started, admittedly it could be quite intimidating to new players. The dark, smoky room at Gala Notts with Taffy, Ash, Jimmy etc smiling at you as you sat down was pretty tough. Self deal was the norm and it wasn't always pleasant.
At Derby in the rebuys they used to collect the money and occasionally update the blackboard! to show the rebuys, Tikay has a story about that (he got quite uppity one night I believe).
Poker has changed dramatically for the better over the last few years and live is immensley enjoyable. You get to have fun and meet some great characters.
Bear in mind I say this as a pittance-stakes player that has hardly ever played in a casino... The way the post is written it sounds like the guy was purely having a bit of fun, the sort of thing that a lot of people probably do in home games with no angle shooting intentions. For me, if there is a want for recs to get involved in games then poker needs to be accessible and, most of all, fun for them to take part in. Being too onerous with rules (of which there appear to be a very large number) will be the opposite of that. I mean, drunk comes and sits at your game (you rub hands with glee), do you really expect him to read a whole poker rule book to know and understand every rule before he plays? Or are you happy for him to just get stuck straight in? If it's the latter, is that a sort of angle shoot, pre-empting that you'll catch him out in some way with a ruling he's unaware of? Sure it's a learning experience for the guy involved if he has to give up the cash, but for the longer term health of the game it would seem better value to warn him rather than have him leave the casino feeling like he's just been 'robbed' of several hundred quid and that being enough to put him (and maybe others) off from coming back and playing again. Obv if it happens after a warning or if someone who was present read it in a more sinister light, then yeah, he has to be taken to town. Posted by shakinaces
That, my friend, is a great Post, & I agree almost entirely.
I never responded on the other thread next door, there was no point, as everyone gets a bit precious about these things.
Poker players can be so fickle.
It was a cash table, & included a few decent regs. There was a drunk bloke, splashing about in pots. Who in their right mind would want to get rid of him, he was the table mark?
OK, he did a daft thing, but give him enough rope, & he'll do all his money. And if he is playing poker whilst drunk, he deserves to do the lot. And any player at the table who wanted to punish him would be mad. OK, so he got away with a bit of a stunt, intended or otherwise. So what? His money is there for the taking.
In Response to Re: Ramblings of an old man : If I'm telling you how to suck eggs here then feel to tell me to sod off. Please don't be put off playing live by this sort of thing. In my experience it's very rare. You're in a great location regarding live poker. It's rare now they games are not dealer dealt and they will look after the table just fine. Posted by Jac35
Hi Jac,
No need for you to sod off, all fair points.
The self-deal, from my two casino poker experiences, was probably the most nerve-wracking part of playing live. It felt like someone had cut my thumbs off as I was trying to shuffle and when I mis-dealt (two cards had stuck together) it did not go down well with the locals!! (that was in Blackpool mind you...)
The only other time I played 'live' (excluding home/pub games with mates) was for the Sky cameras a few years back (hopefully footage long since deleted!!) with a bunch of live poker 'virgins' and it was way more enjoyable with a dealer, you could just relax, play some cards and have some banter. The only bit that wasn't enjoyable was donking my chips off to Dan Lobb
Had hoped to join in an SPT, but the mere mention of those appears to be a sore point on the forum these days!!
Today has been a rather uncomfortable day at work. For me certainly but I'm guessing even more so for one of my colleagues.
It all started pleasantly enough. We were sent out in a van together. My friend has a rather short temper and doesn't suffer fools gladly but bizarrely enough we get on very well.
As it was so hot I decided to buy a large bottle of Pepsi Max. Upon reaching our destination I took a large swig from my bottle. I then screwed the top back on and placed the bottle on the shelf above me and exited the van. My colleague then drove off to find a parking space. Just 30 seconds had elapsed when to my surprise he screamed to a halt alongside me and jumped out of the van. He started swearing a lot and so it was quite difficult to comprehend what the problem was.
Oddly enough he seemed to be very wet. Soaking in fact. His hair was dripping wet as were his shirt and trousers. I couldn't make much sense of what the lunatic in front of me was saying and so decided to inspect the van to see if there were any clues there. It was very strange. It appeared to be raining in the van. There was plenty of liquid pouring through the shelf and interior light.
As I couldn't understand what he was saying I tried to deduce for myself what had happened. Later on it would appear that my guesswork was pretty accurate.
Just possibly I hadn't quite screwed the lid on properly. As my friend drove off out the corner of his eye he noticed a bottle top land on the passenger seat. A little like in the films when a pin falls out of a grenade there was a momentary pause. After that there was horror on my friends face as an incredible amount of Pepsi max came hurtling towards him.
I now considered my options.
Laugh and hope that he'll see the funny side? Nope
Claim that the bottle was faulty? Nope
Run? Nope
Say "sorry mate"? I chose this one. It didn't really seem to be enough but I think it was the best of my limited options.
My friend seems to have calmed down a little now and I no longer think that my life is in danger. I am keeping a safe distance though, just in case like.
Persuaded Mrs J to let me loose with the laptop for one night only. It's a bit sad really but I was itching to play after only playing for a couple of hours in total since last Thursday.
I won some monies!!
Not very much but it's a start. When confidence is low it's a nice feeling to get that unusual sight of seeing your account balance slightly higher at the end of your session than it was at the start.
Sadly it's been hidden again now
....
The mighty rams finally get their man. Our biggest deal in the last few years as well. He gets injured 34 mins into his debut and is out for the season. Sigh
.....
Went to the range tonight and hit the ball great. Where did that come from? Let's see if I do the same tomorrow (highly unlikely)
Yippee! Persuaded Mrs J to let me loose with the laptop for one night only. It's a bit sad really but I was itching to play after only playing for a couple of hours in total since last Thursday. I won some monies!! Not very much but it's a start. When confidence is low it's a nice feeling to get that unusual sight of seeing your account balance slightly higher at the end of your session than it was at the start. Sadly it's been hidden again now .... The mighty rams finally get their man. Our biggest deal in the last few years as well. He gets injured 34 mins into his debut and is out for the season. Sigh ..... Went to the range tonight and hit the ball great. Where did that come from? Let's see if I do the same tomorrow (highly unlikely) Posted by Jac35
Yeah, when I feel like I need some sporting competition, I often go and browse the garden furniture and BBQ's there.
I used to love Radio 1 years ago. Chris Evans was brilliant as a presenter. Funny and always interesting. I remember being captivated listening to him rant for half an hour shortly before he left. It was when he was doing TFI on Friday nights and thought it was most unfair that his boss at the BBC wouldn't let him have Fridays off to prepare for his Channel 4 show.
He's now on Radio 2 and we have to listen to that at work, it's dreadful. One segment that really annoys me is the kids 'what did you do for the first time yesterday?' He then asks then to rate themselves out of 10. The normal reply is something like "a million out of 10 Chris" to which he replies with 'brilliant, well done" Instead of congratulating them he should be educating them and explaining that a million out of 10 is actually impossible.
Occasionally someone switches us over to Radio 1. We certainly get educated on there. The new items are fabulous. Normally something along the lines of
"Yesterday, David Cameron, he's the Prime Minister and has to make lots of important decisions, was in talks with George Osborne, he's the clever man who looks after money.,,,"
Still, I suppose it's better than local radio where it's something like 'Richie and Trace in the morning'
Richie, who is of same comic genius as say Stan Boardmam keeps coming out with lines that make you wonder if Traces sides are actually splitting. They both have amazing, exciting lives and they'll tell you all about what they got up to last night during the next hour.
Radio, Bah
I turn it off in my car these days and put on my 'Learn to be Happy' tape.
Comments
The author of that thread is a good friend of mine, Rupinder "George" Bedi, & I'm sure he won't mind me posting the thing here.
See next Post.....
Here's George, smiling as always.
The question that George Bedi posed was......
"...2/5 game at local. I'm not playing but a huge fuss kicks off.
There's around 800 in the middle on the river of a 4 heart paired board. Player 1 has lead out for £600.
Drunk guy stares him down playing around 1250 announces loudly "RAISE" after a few seconds he laughs and says "just kidding" and tries to muck his hand. Dealer stops him and states he has to raise. Drunk guy argues that he didn't realise. Floor is called and state he has to min raise. Player grabs his chips and refuses to put them on the pot. Floor states if he doesn't put chips in he will be asked to leave to which player 2 says fine. Player 1 says whoa whoa whoa what about the £600?
Do the casino force the chips out of his hand? What happens of he just ups and leave with a the chips? Should the casino make good the money player 1 has lost?...."
Tough one really, and I think you would have needed to be sat at the table to really know if it was a drunken error or something more sinister.
The way the post is written it sounds like the guy was purely having a bit of fun, the sort of thing that a lot of people probably do in home games with no angle shooting intentions.
For me, if there is a want for recs to get involved in games then poker needs to be accessible and, most of all, fun for them to take part in.
Being too onerous with rules (of which there appear to be a very large number) will be the opposite of that. I mean, drunk comes and sits at your game (you rub hands with glee), do you really expect him to read a whole poker rule book to know and understand every rule before he plays? Or are you happy for him to just get stuck straight in? If it's the latter, is that a sort of angle shoot, pre-empting that you'll catch him out in some way with a ruling he's unaware of?
Sure it's a learning experience for the guy involved if he has to give up the cash, but for the longer term health of the game it would seem better value to warn him rather than have him leave the casino feeling like he's just been 'robbed' of several hundred quid and that being enough to put him (and maybe others) off from coming back and playing again.
Obv if it happens after a warning or if someone who was present read it in a more sinister light, then yeah, he has to be taken to town.
I never responded on the other thread next door, there was no point, as everyone gets a bit precious about these things.
Poker players can be so fickle.
It was a cash table, & included a few decent regs. There was a drunk bloke, splashing about in pots. Who in their right mind would want to get rid of him, he was the table mark?
OK, he did a daft thing, but give him enough rope, & he'll do all his money. And if he is playing poker whilst drunk, he deserves to do the lot. And any player at the table who wanted to punish him would be mad. OK, so he got away with a bit of a stunt, intended or otherwise. So what? His money is there for the taking.
No need for you to sod off, all fair points.
The self-deal, from my two casino poker experiences, was probably the most nerve-wracking part of playing live. It felt like someone had cut my thumbs off as I was trying to shuffle and when I mis-dealt (two cards had stuck together) it did not go down well with the locals!! (that was in Blackpool mind you...)
The only other time I played 'live' (excluding home/pub games with mates) was for the Sky cameras a few years back (hopefully footage long since deleted!!) with a bunch of live poker 'virgins' and it was way more enjoyable with a dealer, you could just relax, play some cards and have some banter. The only bit that wasn't enjoyable was donking my chips off to Dan Lobb
Had hoped to join in an SPT, but the mere mention of those appears to be a sore point on the forum these days!!