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Sky to merge with Pokerstars!?!?!

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  • Angmar2626Angmar2626 Member Posts: 846
    It would be like McDonalds buying out a local country pub, turning it into a McDonalds, and then assuming that all pub regulars will automatically become McDonalds regulars because both establishments sell food.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793

    TLDR:
    Many players already have Stars accounts; they can't have two.
    All players currently have the option of playing on Stars but many choose not to.

    If Stars keep Sky going, they get rake from both above categories that they otherwise wouldn't.

    A lot of that would depend on if they kept it going , but let foreign players play on a sky site in name only . Is the revenue enough for them to power the site and keep it pretty much as it is, with upgraded software ?
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793

    It would be like McDonalds buying out a local country pub, turning it into a McDonalds, and then assuming that all pub regulars will automatically become McDonalds regulars because both establishments sell food.

    Maybe , but there are instances of sites being taken over and the brand being totally wiped ...as mentioned before Stanjames and Unibet
  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,973
    The comparison with Unibet and Stan James isn't really applicable. They were very similar companies.

    Stars and Sky have clear differences. Everyone knows stars and I'd assume that 95pc of regular Sky players have a Stars account.

    I think with the uncertainty over Brexit it would be ever more short sighted.

    I know that there was talk of software upgrades, but I think everything is fine. I've had less downtime on Sky that any other major site this year.

    Getting rid of Sky Poker will have a compound effect on the whole of the Sky brand 1-2 years down the line IMO.

    A cool solution would be for Stars to gift the FTP software (but disable antes of course), and open it up to a select few global markets, thereby keeping the uniqueness of Sky plus allowing some opportunities for growth.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    scotty77 said:

    The comparison with Unibet and Stan James isn't really applicable. They were very similar companies.

    Stars and Sky have clear differences. Everyone knows stars and I'd assume that 95pc of regular Sky players have a Stars account.

    I think with the uncertainty over Brexit it would be ever more short sighted.

    I know that there was talk of software upgrades, but I think everything is fine. I've had less downtime on Sky that any other major site this year.

    Getting rid of Sky Poker will have a compound effect on the whole of the Sky brand 1-2 years down the line IMO.

    A cool solution would be for Stars to gift the FTP software (but disable antes of course), and open it up to a select few global markets, thereby keeping the uniqueness of Sky plus allowing some opportunities for growth.

    In what respect were they similar ?
  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 11,413
    edited November 2018
    What would make sense to me, is that Stars close SkyPoker down and add some tournaments, cash games and SNG's that are for UK players only, so no partitioning would be required, as the restriction to UK only, would be set up at tournament/Cash Game/SNG level.

    They could make it "similar" to some of SkyPoker's current schedule. They could even call it the "SKY LEGACY" MTT schedule, or some such thing.

    This would be easy to implement and keep some of the Sky branding. Hopefully the SKY LEGACY tournaments would have a look and feel to them, guarantee, buy in and structure wise to the current SKY MTT's. These schedules could potentially be "managed" by current SkyPoker employees, hopefully adding some job security for them.

    Just a thought.

    What do you think @Tikay10 @SkyJames @Sky_SamT is this something worth considering/being considered?

    Obviously there will be talks going on about this stuff, and I don't know if you are privy to those talks and/or how free you are to comment on here about them.

    Obviously some "synergy" has to happen, and this SKY LEGACY idea may be something to try and hold on to.

    Cheers,

    G
  • Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,336
    Why cant we just go back to having channel 865!

    Turbo Tuesdays.

    Mastercash.

    the live show threads!

    winning signed copies of moormans book.

    sky poker live cash game episodes.

    :neutral:

  • TOOTRUETOOTRUE Member Posts: 115
    I like the idea of StayOrGo's suggestion and this would be my preference on the assumption that Sky Poker does not continue in its present format, but with my business hat on I fear that the outcome will be different.

    When reporting results, Sky Betting and Gaming never broke down its Gaming segment between Vegas, Casino, Bingo and Poker, to show much each of the four elements contributed to EBITDA. However, Poker was always last in the list when the the list of the components of Gaming was detailed. Sometimes this can be construed to mean it was the least profitable / important to the business. However, when The Stars Group issued their presentation in April 2018 for the acquisition of SB&G page 10 states one of the rationales behind the acquisition is "Sports to Poker: cross-sell from SBG to TSG’s leading poker platform". There was also mention of $70M of recurring cost synergies being achieved within 2 years of acquisition (page 13 of the same presentation). If you had to guess what some of these cost synergies might be then transitioning all SB&G poker players to "TSG's leading poker platform" would at least be on the list of the areas identified by the group for possible cost synergies. However, in November this year, TSG announced it was "Exploring opportunities to increase the level of cost synergies above the $70 million previously announced". When both the SB&G business and the Australian business acquired by TSG both generate losses before tax again you can see TSG taking action here.

    However, in TSG's Q3 results published in November, there is a little more detail. On slide 10 of the presentation, Sky Poker is actually presented as a separate division in terms of performance during the 3 months ending 30th September and gives some context to its size in relation to the rest of TSG and in which direction its performance might be heading, Revenue in this period was just £2.5M. This compares to £64.3M revenue for the rest of gaming in the same period and £78.5M for betting in the same period. Therefore very small in comparison. Not only is it small, but it is heading in the wrong direction being down 10.8% on the corresponding period in 2017. In comparison, poker for TSG for the same period was $213M. It is also worth noting on slide 45 of the same presentation that SB&G made an operating loss of $29M during the 3 month period compared to TSG's operating profit of $138M in the same period.

    Some asked above what the business decision was keeping Sky Poker the same or modifying it to a new form palatable to most players that choose to play on Sky Poker.
    Given the context detailed above, I think that it is unlikely that TSG will be kind to the loyal Sky Poker players that would like the status quo to remain. It would be hard to justify doing so given the significance of Sky Poker to the entire group and the fact that it is part of the business which makes an operating loss.
  • IvydriveIvydrive Member Posts: 8
    Spotted this article myself yesterday so came looking for a thread discussing it here.

    My read on the article is they are planning on retaining the Sky Poker brand and UK exclusivity, both are good news as far as i'm concerned as i was pretty convinced/worried we'd see Sky poker swallowed up by Stars as has been referenced with SJ/Unibet takeover.

    I used to be a reg almost exclusively on Stars for many years before changing scenery and playing more Euro based networks plus 888/Party and pretty much cut stars out of my schedule. I'm not a fan of the direction they're are taking the company.
    Having said that i then got frustrated with the different software, mismatched schedules, etc and could never find a schedule which suited me. This is when i came to Sky. I already had an account and had played some games but very low volume. I'm really not a fan of Sky software. I find it super tilting to try to play any more than 6 tables however strangely quite enjoyed a lot of other aspects - The UK exclusive player base being a big one, the smaller field MTTs, The ban on HUDs, The community feel here is also really nice & a bit of a strange one but i really like the fact the player notes are saved online. It means i can transition from my Desktop to my macbook when i'm down to one or two tables and play then out on the sofa in front of the TV without losing my notes (i use them a lot in the absence of a HUD). For all Skys faults (Mainly the dodgy software related), there is something a bit homely feeling about it that i like which is why its my main site to play now.

    Part of me will be disappointed to see it go but if we transfer over a lot of what we have now - Sky Poker skin using Stars software & importantly, a UK only player pool, I'm actually quite excited for the future.

    Perhaps i'm being blindly optimistic but i'm hopefully for a good outcome. As others have said, If Sky Pokers swallowed up by Stars, i'll simply be cashing out and going back to a different network as i cant face the huge fields & variance that we see on Stars. Smaller field, UK player base is the way forward PLEASE.

  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    TOOTRUE said:

    I like the idea of StayOrGo's suggestion and this would be my preference on the assumption that Sky Poker does not continue in its present format, but with my business hat on I fear that the outcome will be different.

    When reporting results, Sky Betting and Gaming never broke down its Gaming segment between Vegas, Casino, Bingo and Poker, to show much each of the four elements contributed to EBITDA. However, Poker was always last in the list when the the list of the components of Gaming was detailed. Sometimes this can be construed to mean it was the least profitable / important to the business. However, when The Stars Group issued their presentation in April 2018 for the acquisition of SB&G page 10 states one of the rationales behind the acquisition is "Sports to Poker: cross-sell from SBG to TSG’s leading poker platform". There was also mention of $70M of recurring cost synergies being achieved within 2 years of acquisition (page 13 of the same presentation). If you had to guess what some of these cost synergies might be then transitioning all SB&G poker players to "TSG's leading poker platform" would at least be on the list of the areas identified by the group for possible cost synergies. However, in November this year, TSG announced it was "Exploring opportunities to increase the level of cost synergies above the $70 million previously announced". When both the SB&G business and the Australian business acquired by TSG both generate losses before tax again you can see TSG taking action here.

    However, in TSG's Q3 results published in November, there is a little more detail. On slide 10 of the presentation, Sky Poker is actually presented as a separate division in terms of performance during the 3 months ending 30th September and gives some context to its size in relation to the rest of TSG and in which direction its performance might be heading, Revenue in this period was just £2.5M. This compares to £64.3M revenue for the rest of gaming in the same period and £78.5M for betting in the same period. Therefore very small in comparison. Not only is it small, but it is heading in the wrong direction being down 10.8% on the corresponding period in 2017. In comparison, poker for TSG for the same period was $213M. It is also worth noting on slide 45 of the same presentation that SB&G made an operating loss of $29M during the 3 month period compared to TSG's operating profit of $138M in the same period.

    Some asked above what the business decision was keeping Sky Poker the same or modifying it to a new form palatable to most players that choose to play on Sky Poker.
    Given the context detailed above, I think that it is unlikely that TSG will be kind to the loyal Sky Poker players that would like the status quo to remain. It would be hard to justify doing so given the significance of Sky Poker to the entire group and the fact that it is part of the business which makes an operating loss.

    Thanks that was the type of informed response i hoped to garner with my question , as opposed to some nonsense Mcdonalds analogy .

  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 4,729
    edited November 2018

    It would be like McDonalds buying out a local country pub, turning it into a McDonalds, and then assuming that all pub regulars will automatically become McDonalds regulars because both establishments sell food.


    Perfect analogy. Taking sky away its like what's happening to pubs all over the country.

    5 years ago, I lost my local it became a co-op , its like having a limb torn off, we're now a scattered people.

    When we bump into local ex-regulars we're always reminiscing and commenting how the community has been ripped apart.

    Moving on will be hard, I'll be nomadic for a while until I find a new site, Pokerstars it won't be


    Great Post @TOOTRUE.
  • sudstahsudstah Member Posts: 14
    edited February 2019
    *bump* keep us updated tikay were still watching you! ;)
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 88,920
    edited February 2019
    Type your comment
    sudstah said:

    *bump* keep us updated tikay were still watching you! ;)

    Will do, @sudstah

    As far as I know, not much has changed since @Sky_Sam posted on this thread back in November. I've certainly heard nothing of substance about it recently.

    As soon as there are any firm plans, everyone will be updated, & if I hear anything in the meantime, I'll let you know, or Sam will.

    For now, it's business as usual for 2019, until & unless we hear further. Sky Poker promotions (SPT, UKOPS etc) are all being planned throughout 2019, though of course they could be cancelled if need be.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,019
    Be nice to know if there is a vegas tourney planned in 2019??
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