Personally I've got no problem with the 10% rake on current TDYM's (which is what I play most often) as I am profitable on them. However, it does surprise me that Sky do not have a competitive rake level in comparison with other websites.
I was already considering spending more time on other sites rather than Sky because of the lack of £55 TDYM's running at the moment. Learning that their rake is not competitive pushes me closer to making that jump to other websites. Why would I not take the effective "free profit" that the lower rake would provide on another site?
I guess the questions are , a) How regularly do they run on other sites ? and b) How beatable are they with the inevitable stronger opposition ?
i totally agree with melt even the best players on site only make 5-7 % so with 10 % rake are very tough to beat. As an example ive played 4414 sngs with an roi of 2.1% against mtts of 10118 with an roi of 53.1%. tbh i find them mind numbingly boring tend only to play them when there are promos linked to them after i realised not worth the time and effort with that return.
The first thing to mention is that many other sites have banned DYMs, though some still have them.
Sky isn't (IMO) weaker than those sites that do still allow them.
The danger is that you may well be playing against 3 people who are in the same poker house in a country that does not have the same safeguards against such things.
I would suggest you watch games on a site before playing them against people, particularly when a lot are in a very small (in poker-playing terms) country.
It is easier to collude in a DYM than other forms of poker.
The first thing to mention is that many other sites have banned DYMs, though some still have them.
Sky isn't (IMO) weaker than those sites that do still allow them.
The danger is that you may well be playing against 3 people who are in the same poker house in a country that does not have the same safeguards against such things.
I would suggest you watch games on a site before playing them against people, particularly when a lot are in a very small (in poker-playing terms) country.
It is easier to collude in a DYM than other forms of poker.
I don't think it's weaker either , but I think that the general poker population online , view it as such . Might be a surprise to some people , but |I've played the bigger stakes dyms on other sites , particularly on ipoker , i used to regularly play up to and including 50 euro ones , and the game play between certain regs on a table was enduring and always left me feeling that it was far from a level playing field . The grass isn't always greener .
I don't think it's weaker either , but I think that the general poker population online , view it as such . Might be a surprise to some people , but |I've played the bigger stakes dyms on other sites , particularly on ipoker , i used to regularly play up to and including 50 euro ones , and the game play between certain regs on a table was enduring and always left me feeling that it was far from a level playing field . The grass isn't always greener .
2 posts up you say "inevitable stronger opposition" so its either weaker or not ?
We have contributions from the very best players on the site saying it is virtually impossible to be profitable long term with the current rake.
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
You really have no idea what you are talking about have you. You took a stance which is clearly wrong but throw assumptions around with no basis to back your stance. So I will break it down for you.
"The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact" We have the best players on the site telling you it is virtually impossible some even have given you there stats from 1000's of games to prove this.
"nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall "
I really think you don't understand the term "reg" "these people are playing and not making any money overall" . There are regs playing every format of the game (stt mtt cash) most of these are losing players . There are winning regs and losing regs.
"These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
This is just human nature who is going to come on to a forum and say I am a losing player. Poker players have egos.
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
You really have no idea what you are talking about have you. You took a stance which is clearly wrong but throw assumptions around with no basis to back your stance. So I will break it down for you.
"The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact" We have the best players on the site telling you it is virtually impossible some even have given you there stats from 1000's of games to prove this.
"nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall "
I really think you don't understand the term "reg" "these people are playing and not making any money overall" . There are regs playing every format of the game (stt mtt cash) most of these are losing players . There are winning regs and losing regs.
"These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
This is just human nature who is going to come on to a forum and say I am a losing player. Poker players have egos.
I'm a losing player...but before a certain person smirks..their opinion is irrelevant..bit like most of the posts
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
Who are all these regs? I know some wont have opted in/will have hidden stats but if you look at sharkscope any game by network (this includes HU SNG too) there are only 10 players that have averaged 1k games a month which in a volume game like DYMs seems super low. This includes a 2 week period with a specific DYM promo and 4 weeks of a SNG promo.
For context assuming £11 average stake you need to play 1000 games a month to make priority and get the extra RB which seems pretty key to making the games profitable.
I am not saying there are not players that make good money from DYMs but I don't think it is many. Also, just because you see someone play a lot doesn't mean they are making a lot of money or even making any money.
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
Who are all these regs? I know some wont have opted in/will have hidden stats but if you look at sharkscope any game by network (this includes HU SNG too) there are only 10 players that have averaged 1k games a month which in a volume game like DYMs seems super low. This includes a 2 week period with a specific DYM promo and 4 weeks of a SNG promo.
For context assuming £11 average stake you need to play 1000 games a month to make priority and get the extra RB which seems pretty key to making the games profitable.
I am not saying there are not players that make good money from DYMs but I don't think it is many. Also, just because you see someone play a lot doesn't mean they are making a lot of money or even making any money.
@MattBates Do you think the rake makes these games unbeatable ?
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
Who are all these regs? I know some wont have opted in/will have hidden stats but if you look at sharkscope any game by network (this includes HU SNG too) there are only 10 players that have averaged 1k games a month which in a volume game like DYMs seems super low. This includes a 2 week period with a specific DYM promo and 4 weeks of a SNG promo.
For context assuming £11 average stake you need to play 1000 games a month to make priority and get the extra RB which seems pretty key to making the games profitable.
I am not saying there are not players that make good money from DYMs but I don't think it is many. Also, just because you see someone play a lot doesn't mean they are making a lot of money or even making any money.
@MattBates Do you think the rake makes these games unbeatable ?
They are beatable if you are the best in these games and put in a large amount of volume. I don't know if many recreational players can play 250 games a week at an average stake of £11 to make priority to reduce the effective rake. If you can put in increased volume and make the higher priority levels then this will increase potential profitability.
You will get some players showing a good ROI over a small sample but that doesn't mean it is sustainable long term.
It's obviously stronger opposition , when you aren't playing against individuals , but teams . Not rocket science really is it ? That has nothing to do , however with the standard of play . The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) . There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
Who are all these regs? I know some wont have opted in/will have hidden stats but if you look at sharkscope any game by network (this includes HU SNG too) there are only 10 players that have averaged 1k games a month which in a volume game like DYMs seems super low. This includes a 2 week period with a specific DYM promo and 4 weeks of a SNG promo.
For context assuming £11 average stake you need to play 1000 games a month to make priority and get the extra RB which seems pretty key to making the games profitable.
I am not saying there are not players that make good money from DYMs but I don't think it is many. Also, just because you see someone play a lot doesn't mean they are making a lot of money or even making any money.
@MattBates Do you think the rake makes these games unbeatable ?
They are beatable if you are the best in these games and put in a large amount of volume. I don't know if many recreational players can play 250 games a week at an average stake of £11 to make priority to reduce the effective rake. If you can put in increased volume and make the higher priority levels then this will increase potential profitability.
You will get some players showing a good ROI over a small sample but that doesn't mean it is sustainable long term.
Thank you for the most simplistic yet balanced position to support Chickn's view on rake being too high for high(er) value DYM's... and you know how to spell beatable! (lol)
As a rec player, if you play 1.10, 2.20 etc..the 10/20p's also mount up if you play a lot og games
BUT not in the same way £1.00/2.00 do for £11/22 DYM respectively, especially if as a rec player you are trying not only to improve your game by playing at a higher level.
And yes, the lower value games end up as shove/spinups with some players because its not a lot to lose. As my game has (slightly) improved, I've tried to move away from the bingo players at these levels
I do want to see a ROI ,even if its only to play more games, and not as an income stream.
Less rake means I end up playing more games so Sky gets my money eventually
Thanks, Matt, as ever your posts remain informative and interesting( and I'm being serious!)
Personally I've got no problem with the 10% rake on current TDYM's (which is what I play most often) as I am profitable on them. However, it does surprise me that Sky do not have a competitive rake level in comparison with other websites.
I was already considering spending more time on other sites rather than Sky because of the lack of £55 TDYM's running at the moment. Learning that their rake is not competitive pushes me closer to making that jump to other websites. Why would I not take the effective "free profit" that the lower rake would provide on another site?
I guess the questions are , a) How regularly do they run on other sites ? and b) How beatable are they with the inevitable stronger opposition ?
Your second question has already been made redundant by others. For the first question, my go to place would have been Stars, but they don't seem to run DYM's. Had a quick scan and PartyPoker do run 6-max TDYM's. They seem to fill up regularly too.
Regardless of profitability, and whether or not Sky's rake is "too" high on TDYM's, it is disappointing that Sky aren't competitive on rake level compared to other sites. It's hard for me to say that because I do love Sky Poker - but it is true.
I'm quickly beginning to see why the likes of @dialbi4 and @jimifloyd left the site. It was a dark day when someone decided to introduce Turbo DYMS here. There's barely any time available for good play and you usually have to get it all in with mediocre hands after just a few minutes to avoid getting blinded out. At least lower the rake if you're going to persist with such a dreadful game because there's only one winner at the moment (the rake).
I'm quickly beginning to see why the likes of @dialbi4 and @jimifloyd left the site. It was a dark day when someone decided to introduce Turbo DYMS here. There's barely any time available for good play and you usually have to get it all in with mediocre hands after just a few minutes to avoid getting blinded out. At least lower the rake if you're going to persist with such a dreadful game because there's only one winner at the moment (the rake).
The games are fine and there is still skill involved understanding shove fold ranges from various positions. Just the games are to thin value to actually beat at current rake levels
Comments
I guess the questions are , a) How regularly do they run on other sites ?
and b) How beatable are they with the inevitable stronger opposition ?
I guess the questions are , a) How regularly do they run on other sites ?
and b) How beateable are they with the inevitable stronger opposition ?
Think you meant beatable : )
As you have mentioned this before. What are you basing your assumption that Sky is softer than other sites ?
As you have mentioned this before. What are you basing your assumption that Sky is softer than other sites ?
I don't answer stalking trolls
You make a lot of assumptions including Sky is softer than other sites to various posters on the thread. How have you come to this conclusion ?
You seem to have very strong views on everything but cant back up your opinions when questioned.
Sky isn't (IMO) weaker than those sites that do still allow them.
The danger is that you may well be playing against 3 people who are in the same poker house in a country that does not have the same safeguards against such things.
I would suggest you watch games on a site before playing them against people, particularly when a lot are in a very small (in poker-playing terms) country.
It is easier to collude in a DYM than other forms of poker.
Might be a surprise to some people , but |I've played the bigger stakes dyms on other sites , particularly on ipoker , i used to regularly play up to and including 50 euro ones , and the game play between certain regs on a table was enduring and always left me feeling that it was far from a level playing field .
The grass isn't always greener .
I don't think it's weaker either , but I think that the general poker population online , view it as such .
Might be a surprise to some people , but |I've played the bigger stakes dyms on other sites , particularly on ipoker , i used to regularly play up to and including 50 euro ones , and the game play between certain regs on a table was enduring and always left me feeling that it was far from a level playing field .
The grass isn't always greener .
2 posts up you say "inevitable stronger opposition" so its either weaker or not ?
We have contributions from the very best players on the site saying it is virtually impossible to be profitable long term with the current rake.
Think melt and others are totally correct.
The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact , nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) .
There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall ?. And I say overall , because surely when you include rewards money , promos , as well as profit , the gp line is the important figure . These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
You took a stance which is clearly wrong but throw assumptions around with no basis to back your stance. So I will break it down for you.
"The assumption that it's virtually impossible to be profitable on here long term isn't backed up by cold hard fact"
We have the best players on the site telling you it is virtually impossible some even have given you there stats from 1000's of games to prove this.
"nor by the amount of regs that continue to play ( if they didn't make a profit , they would move elsewhwere) .
There's a ton of regs who play tdyms, you see them day in , day out , are we really expected to believe that these people are playing and not making any money overall "
I really think you don't understand the term "reg" "these people are playing and not making any money overall" . There are regs playing every format of the game (stt mtt cash) most of these are losing players . There are winning regs and losing regs.
"These players I'm talking about , aren't coming on this thread and saying , " you know what it's unbeatable , cant make any money with this rake "
This is just human nature who is going to come on to a forum and say I am a losing player. Poker players have egos.
For context assuming £11 average stake you need to play 1000 games a month to make priority and get the extra RB which seems pretty key to making the games profitable.
I am not saying there are not players that make good money from DYMs but I don't think it is many. Also, just because you see someone play a lot doesn't mean they are making a lot of money or even making any money.
9/10 for grammar & spelling, dayeire- you must try harder in class. please see the teacher at the end of this lesson
You will get some players showing a good ROI over a small sample but that doesn't mean it is sustainable long term.
As a rec player, if you play 1.10, 2.20 etc..the 10/20p's also mount up if you play a lot og games
BUT not in the same way £1.00/2.00 do for £11/22 DYM respectively, especially if as a rec player you are trying not only to improve your game by playing at a higher level.
And yes, the lower value games end up as shove/spinups with some players because its not a lot to lose. As my game has (slightly) improved, I've tried to move away from the bingo players at these levels
I do want to see a ROI ,even if its only to play more games, and not as an income stream.
Less rake means I end up playing more games so Sky gets my money eventually
Thanks, Matt, as ever your posts remain informative and interesting( and I'm being serious!)
Regardless of profitability, and whether or not Sky's rake is "too" high on TDYM's, it is disappointing that Sky aren't competitive on rake level compared to other sites. It's hard for me to say that because I do love Sky Poker - but it is true.