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Ukraine

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  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 580
    Whilst I find Vespas comments disconcerting I do not think he should be banned rather corrected and debunked.

    I believe freedom of speech is very important and we need to let people say stuff we find offensive or stuff that is plane wrong, otherwise we run the risk of becoming a state like Russia where media is completely censored and everyone is controlled by been pushed down a narrow narrative.

    I think there are exceptions for things like slander liable and direct calls for violence.

    However if we restrict speech to only the narrative we want then soon people can outlaw our speech when we advocate what more rational views. Further we can be led blindly to following an evil agenda without realising it.

    Freedom of speech is important.
  • Allan23Allan23 Member Posts: 768
    Doubleme said:

    Whilst I find Vespas comments disconcerting I do not think he should be banned rather corrected and debunked.

    I believe freedom of speech is very important and we need to let people say stuff we find offensive or stuff that is plane wrong, otherwise we run the risk of becoming a state like Russia where media is completely censored and everyone is controlled by been pushed down a narrow narrative.

    I think there are exceptions for things like slander liable and direct calls for violence.

    However if we restrict speech to only the narrative we want then soon people can outlaw our speech when we advocate what more rational views. Further we can be led blindly to following an evil agenda without realising it.

    Freedom of speech is important.

    Taking over any thread on a poker forum, posting disgusting lies with almost every post, even when the subject involves the deaths of innocent toddlers, so that no one else bothers to post, isn't free speech. It is to the detriment of free speech.
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 580
    Allan23 said:

    Doubleme said:

    Whilst I find Vespas comments disconcerting I do not think he should be banned rather corrected and debunked.

    I believe freedom of speech is very important and we need to let people say stuff we find offensive or stuff that is plane wrong, otherwise we run the risk of becoming a state like Russia where media is completely censored and everyone is controlled by been pushed down a narrow narrative.

    I think there are exceptions for things like slander liable and direct calls for violence.

    However if we restrict speech to only the narrative we want then soon people can outlaw our speech when we advocate what more rational views. Further we can be led blindly to following an evil agenda without realising it.

    Freedom of speech is important.

    Taking over any thread on a poker forum, posting disgusting lies with almost every post, even when the subject involves the deaths of innocent toddlers, so that no one else bothers to post, isn't free speech. It is to the detriment of free speech.
    I think Vespa just likes to be antagonistic. It appears whatever is going on Vespa seeks to take the view that opposes what most people think or advocate for. Generally I think he is likely a troll.

    To be clear I am not pro Putin I definitely am anti Putin and think what Russia are doing is very wrong and very alarming.

    The issue is if we decide we can ban him because what he writes is offensive to us then later someone can decide I should be banned because they are offended by what I say, and later someone can decide you should be banned because they do not like what you say.

    In regards to him spamming threads, I have seen in quite a few forums and chatrooms that people can be limited to so many posts per thread or per minute to stop spam getting out of control maybe that would be fair if Vespa or someone else dominates a particular thread.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 21,101
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    Did anyone fall for the Iraq WMD's story?
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 6,595
    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 6,335
    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 580
    Russia captured civilians and took them to Russia to work as slave labor. They claim to be the good guys going in to denazify the world yet have concentration camps for forced labor and claim to be superior.

    I think Putin is not just evil but is also enjoying been a troll at the same time.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    Does everyone support the Azov Brigade?
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 5,375
    VespaPX said:

    Does everyone support the Azov Brigade?

    No. Not keen.

    But I believe Ukrainians should decide who runs Ukraine. Not invading forces.
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 6,595
    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 6,335
    goldon said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
    Are you Boris , avoiding the question
    Mate , i've got no respect for most British gvts it's always the little people that get lied to and hammered and it's the same with governments across the world , what are folks like you and me supposed to do when stuff like WMD hits the media , we can sit there and shake our heads and say no no no i don't agree but it's all money money money lining the pockets of the fat cats though and the ordinary people are an irrelevance

  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    Essexphil said:

    VespaPX said:

    Does everyone support the Azov Brigade?

    No. Not keen.

    But I believe Ukrainians should decide who runs Ukraine. Not invading forces.
    Iraq?
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
    Are you Boris , avoiding the question
    Mate , i've got no respect for most British gvts it's always the little people that get lied to and hammered and it's the same with governments across the world , what are folks like you and me supposed to do when stuff like WMD hits the media , we can sit there and shake our heads and say no no no i don't agree but it's all money money money lining the pockets of the fat cats though and the ordinary people are an irrelevance

    So you don't believe what the Gov/Media told us about WMD's in Iraq?
    Why would we believe them now?
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    I don't trust Putin
    I don't trust Zelensky
    I don't trust our politicians

    I loathe the media

    I hate war
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 6,335
    VespaPX said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
    Are you Boris , avoiding the question
    Mate , i've got no respect for most British gvts it's always the little people that get lied to and hammered and it's the same with governments across the world , what are folks like you and me supposed to do when stuff like WMD hits the media , we can sit there and shake our heads and say no no no i don't agree but it's all money money money lining the pockets of the fat cats though and the ordinary people are an irrelevance

    So you don't believe what the Gov/Media told us about WMD's in Iraq?
    Why would we believe them now?
    I didn't know what to believe i didn't take much notice to be honest , i had enough of my own problems to be worried about summut i had no control over
    What about you ? were you sending letters to mainstream media outlets telling them they were full of shite and not to invade Iraq because Saddam was an ok guy
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 9,249
    stokefc said:

    VespaPX said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
    Are you Boris , avoiding the question
    Mate , i've got no respect for most British gvts it's always the little people that get lied to and hammered and it's the same with governments across the world , what are folks like you and me supposed to do when stuff like WMD hits the media , we can sit there and shake our heads and say no no no i don't agree but it's all money money money lining the pockets of the fat cats though and the ordinary people are an irrelevance

    So you don't believe what the Gov/Media told us about WMD's in Iraq?
    Why would we believe them now?
    I didn't know what to believe i didn't take much notice to be honest , i had enough of my own problems to be worried about summut i had no control over
    What about you ? were you sending letters to mainstream media outlets telling them they were full of shite and not to invade Iraq because Saddam was an ok guy
    Waste of time writing to MSM, they're told what to say.
    Did write a letter of objection to my MP, got no reply.
    Didn't say Saddam was an ok guy.
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 6,335
    VespaPX said:

    stokefc said:

    VespaPX said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    stokefc said:

    goldon said:

    Please point out the Bad Guy's as I'm confused .Com .... better still (and easier) just say who the good guy's are....... It's not us .... we torpedo'd the Belgrano.

    So do you believe the Ukrainians bombed that theatre?
    Oh, have you forgotten about HMS Sheffield and Coventry we were at war with Argentina even though the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone it was a threat
    Struggling to name any ( World Leader Honest Good Guy ) How about "Boris" is he a good guy no weapons of mass destruction from him yet.... so no offer of Knighthood.
    Are you Boris , avoiding the question
    Mate , i've got no respect for most British gvts it's always the little people that get lied to and hammered and it's the same with governments across the world , what are folks like you and me supposed to do when stuff like WMD hits the media , we can sit there and shake our heads and say no no no i don't agree but it's all money money money lining the pockets of the fat cats though and the ordinary people are an irrelevance

    So you don't believe what the Gov/Media told us about WMD's in Iraq?
    Why would we believe them now?
    I didn't know what to believe i didn't take much notice to be honest , i had enough of my own problems to be worried about summut i had no control over
    What about you ? were you sending letters to mainstream media outlets telling them they were full of shite and not to invade Iraq because Saddam was an ok guy
    Waste of time writing to MSM, they're told what to say.
    Did write a letter of objection to my MP, got no reply.
    Didn't say Saddam was an ok guy.
    Now that doesn't surprise me , you're one of us :|
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 6,595
    Where's your vote going at next Election...will it count ... more to the point will it be counted. ?
  • stokefcstokefc Member Posts: 6,335
    edited March 23
    A poster on our forum has been following this guy on facebook could be real could be western propaganda , he's put links in his posts to verify, he's doing daily write ups so i've just c+p off the thread
    It's interesting all the same

    From John R Bruning, see his Facebook post for the photos mentioned.
    www.facebook.com/john.r.bruning

    Morning Update:
    I'm going to break today's post into two pieces, as a bunch of very significant things have happened over the past 24-48 hours. Here's the big picture:

    Strategic Update:
    1. Belarus is currently expelling Ukrainian diplomats, another sign it will enter the war.

    2. Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council, has grown exceptionally hawkish with his rhetoric. He was once considered one of the moderates among the senior Russian leadership when he was President. Lots of threats, claims the US wants to break Russia up, nuclear holocaust references, etc. in his latest statements. He also went after Poland, hammering it for supporting Ukraine and stated that one way or another, Poland will lean to Russia again.
    See here for a summary: www.osw.waw.pl/.../dmitri-medvedev-attacks-poland
    This comes after Poland has identified over 40 Russian diplomats as spies and ordered them out of the country. The Russians began burning documents at their embassy in Warsaw either just before, or just after, that accusation. See the photo of the smoke rising over their embassy.

    3. China has now publicly stated it will not sustain Russian with military or financial aid to Russia. They then blamed the United States for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
    If the Chinese are serious about this, the Russians have no way to replace their vehicle and aircraft losses in the short-term. Funding the war will also become a problem. Lack of Chinese support will limit options for the Russians and make it harder for them to achieve anything significant with conventional forces.

    4. Russian oligarch and climate ambassador Anatoly Chubais quit the Putin administration in protest of the war and fled the country.

    5. Significant Intelligence Coup: The Ukrainians captured what appears to be an intact Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system about 48 hours ago. Deployed operationally in 2014, it is designed to jam airborne radars, block GPS transmissions to drones and can even block/jam reconnaissance satellites over a battlefield to create an electronic blackout to hide movement of troops and vehicles. This is an absolute state of the art, extremely significant Electronic Warfare system that has been very successful in the past. In its first active deployment, one system destroyed nine drones in a week by severing their connections to GPS sats guiding them.
    The importance of getting this system cannot be overstated. Studying it will ensure NATO can find ways to counter this jamming system and render it ineffective. As one former DoD analyst said, "I cannot begin to tell you how big of a loss this is for Russian forces." And, "Ukraine now has the political leverage to get MiGs and SAMS from NATO."
    Read more about this here: www.thedrive.com/.../ukraine-just-captured-part...

    6. Another Russian general got relieved, is under house arrest and is being interrogated. This is the (former) commander of the 6th Combined Arms Army, Lt. General Vladislov Ershov. He is one of the first of the post-Cold War era cadets to rise through the ranks and become a Lt. Gen. He's 46 years old. He is a veteran of the Syrian conflict.
    The 6th Combined Arms Army is deployed in the east part of Ukraine, around Kharkiv. It has made little progress, and his relief & arrest was due to "excessive casualties." Allegedly, the 6th CAA lost 2,000 men KIA.WIA, MIA, including 180 conscripts who by Russian law are not supposed to be deployed outside the country.
    I think this makes the 10th Russian general relieved. Five Russian and one Chechen generals have reportedly been killed in action.

    7. Russian rhetoric about nuclear apocalypse has triggered what the editor of the War Zone has called "Let's talk about nuclear Armageddon day" on social media. Lots of comments and opinions floating around. I'll have a separate post ready later today or tomorrow to lay out the range of insight from various analysts and nuclear security specialists.
    Ukraine update will be teed up soon.
    Photos: a.) Smoke rising over the Russian embassy in Warsaw, strongly suggestive of document burning. b.) The Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system captured by the Ukrainians. c.) Russian General Ershov, who is now under arrest.
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