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Player numbers dwindling do sky actually care? (Everyone's away with the birds)
Angela124
Member Posts: 71
Players numbers have taking a battering in the last few years and guaranteed prize funds are on a one way trajectory. Does anyone actually give 2 hoots
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have fun everyone else.
Obviously Sky has its imperfections (software especially) and generally we don't hear a lot from those higher up anymore, but to say people don't give two hoots is a bit unfair.
Personally, I think the numbers have been quite good over the past week or so for this time of year.
I was wondering earlier Today...........
Where are players like @MattBates and @chicknMelt ?
It's very hard to compare Sky with other sites as it's UK only but the trend you seem to of recognised is in line with the toughening of KYC and UKGC regs. It's not rocket science.
We have removed a number of Posts overnight, they were of a personal nature & not really appropriate.
More at the bigwigs at flutter who seem to have put no effort into addressing very valid issues about software, falling numbers etc.... I went on to play the midnight express last night and seen the guarantee is now down to £800 the half 9 £11 b/h is now down to £400 over half what it used to be. Although its good to see the £2.20 8pm b/h double in recent years. In my opinion the app is rubbish so I always play from a desk top. I remember when there was sky tv, (watching Tony, Neil and Richard promote the site and keep punters engaged, mighty good job the boys done) but sadly that is a thing off the past along with the tv advertisements. Plenty profit in the sky bet, Vegas and casino side of things to invest so why are none of the issues being addressed as a priority to drive sky poker forward. It feels to me that there seems no desire from the top to save skypoker
@Doubleme, I hope not I have no interest to go down that route
@Asho28, Thx for your response... I agree with all your points, my impressions is numbers seem to be going down year on year overall as well as the guaranteed prize funds, I appreciate there are many factors involved that will make number fluctuate through the year but annually everything seems to be sliding and if it wasn't for the team of employees on the shop floor there might not have been a site at all as we speak.
@Kapawblamz.... what a very angry response less I say the better, I aint getting dragged into that one
@MISTY4ME.... I have also wondered where these guys have gone. Matt was a very pleasant polite guy at the table, he was like a celebrity on here (and he played the roll well). I know its none of my business but I am human and we humans can be a curious bunch
@Tikay10..... I don't know who or what this message was for or specifically aimed at. I don't see anything inappropriate or of a personal nature in any of the posts apart from the mention of 2 players names (which I don't see a problem with unless i am missing something? as it is only a question which I think was retorical. Or Kapowblamz response which has a slightly insulting undertone but wouldn't say it was bad enough to get pulled up on or is it my initial question and/or the wording of it?
I'm not looking to argue so hope its not coming across that way. I just genuinly don't understand what's bordering on the unacceptable?
I do agree as ive been following the forum on the days I play, that a lot of the chats have been getting out of hand recently and things need to be reigned in a bit and moderated as you are doing. But I genuinly dont get where it applies to on this post
@Angela124
That's an excellent follow-up, thank you.
I'll address a few of the points separately if I may.
Give me a mo...
You don't see anything inappropriate, that's because, with perhaps an over-abundance of caution, I deleted all the relevant Posts, as well as the replies to them. Why? Some of the replies were quite demeaning & insulting as well as largely inaccurate, & as the two players (MattBates & chicknmelt) are no longer here to defend themselves, it seemed right to remove the posts. Both players are still fine & dandy, they are just no longer playing on Sky Poker, at least not at present.
More follows...
"I went on to play the midnight express last night and seen the guarantee is now down to £800"
my impressions is numbers seem to be going down year on year overall as well as the guaranteed prize funds
I think "guarantees are on a one way trajectory" requires a little context.
Yes, industry wide, Online Poker is in gentle decline generally speaking. This is much exacerbated by Responsible Gaming & UKGC strictures. A significant % of Accounts have been closed by a very pro-active policy at SB&G & it was probably the correct thing to do all things considered, so that's made a big difference, especially as most of those Accounts were high volume big hitters. No regrets on that really, it's the safe & correct thing to do in most cases if The Business is of the view that the players are over-stretching themselves financially.
In my personal view (remembering always that whilst I try to be objective, I'm probably a little biased), "guarantees on a one way trajectory" perhaps needs a littler fleshing out.
So I've just had a look at the Headline Guarantees yesterday (Monday July 3rd) & compared them with the equivalent date last year which was Monday July 4th 2022. By "Headline Tourneys" I mean the big ones I report on daily in the "Who Won What" thread. Here's what it shows;
18.30 BH - unchanged.
7 @ 7 - unchanged.
19.10 Rebuy BH - unchanged.
Main - unchanged.
Mini - unchanged.
Mega - unchanged.
Sheriff - no longer runs on a Monday due to poor performance. Runs Thurs & Sun at reduced £1k guarantee.
9 @ 9. New Tourney, did not run this time last year. Performs well though.
Reload - unchanged.
Turbo - unchanged.
Quickdraw - unchanged.
Mid Ex - reduced from £1,000 to £800 Mon-Thurs, unchanged Fri- Sunday.
Source? Here's the "Who won what" Thread from the same day last year.
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby/community/forums#/discussion/186258/who-won-what-monday-4th-july-lite-version
Of course, Guarantees & prize pools are not the same thing, but generally speaking, prize pools are very similar, perhaps even slightly up, compared to the same day last year.
In the longer term, yes, you are correct, & there are a myriad of reasons for that, some quite complex.
More follows...
No problem at all, it was a fair question.
I appreciate you taking time to check these as I was curious. The morning B/h's are all about 50% - 40% down on guarantees from what they used to be, I think they are now down to between £100 - £200 guaranteed until half 12 where they used to be higher and the 12.30 b/h used to be £500 guarantees until the popular 18.30 1k b/h (that has remained unchanged) where it is now £200 at half 12 and £300 onwards until the 18.30 tourny. I think this is also the case for early £11 b/h that are now only a £200 guarantee. I remember the minis being £2000 and have almost halved to £1250 guarantee. The 21.30 b/h also has went from 1k to £400 apart from the occassional night. I dont know about anything about above the £11 stakes or for freeze outs and timed but i imagine if you go over a longer sample period you will find almost all the tournys have come down in guarantees apart from the 1k 18:30 b/h, the 7@7 b/h the 2.20 8pm b/h (which has doubled) and the new 9@9. And now the much loved midnightexpress has succumbed to the inevitable trend.
I am only going by memory but I think if i researched it more and done a graph of guarantees through the last ten years it would only be going down year on year if only slightly compared to last years.
Its not the falling of guarantees as such that bothers me (as you can only do what makes sense with the player numbers you have) Its the lack of vision the site seems to have or are not willing to allow as im sure you guys have kicked plenty of suggestions up the pay scale. Falling numbers, sure can be put down to the regulators measures and I applaud the measures taken for problem gamblers (who wants the on their conscious) but I do feel this has been rather forced by forces above onto gambling sites rather than done on their own without prompting but still credit where credit is due. I still don't think this is the only reason skys player pool is depleting. I think its more Sky lack of promotion and advertising to recruit new players and to keep them engaged enough to hold on to them. One look at the once good forum would be enough to discourage any new players engaging but i am also thankful we still have the luxury of an open forum as its an excluive concept for sky
I am coming from a place of genuine concern and not to moan, as I love the site but I fear the way its heading isnt good and when its gone its gone forever which would be a great shame. And when you see top profitable players leaving or not coming as often for whatever reasons sets alarm bells ringing as to why but thats a whole other dabate
"Plenty profit in the sky bet, Vegas and casino side of things to invest so why are none of the issues being addressed as a priority to drive sky poker forward. It feels to me that there seems no desire from the top to save skypoker"
This is much more complex, & not really easy for me to answer fully. I'm not really party to their overall thinking, I just know what they tell me.
Firstly, I'm glad you distinguished between the "shop floor workers" & the "top top cheeses". The actual Sky Poker staff think the same as you & me I would imagine but it's those at the top that drive policy & resource allocation.
I am inclined to think that by "don't care" what you really mean is "you don't agree", & that's100% fair & understandable.
"don't care" is definitely inaccurate. They DO care, they get paid on results, their brief is to improve return year on year across the Business as a whole, & bearing in mind Sky Poker is a tinsy winsy part of the whole at a time when it's difficult to attract enough Staff resource. That resource has to be allocated to where it can earn the best return. They invest where they can see future growth (& thus returns), & I don't think anyone could argue that Online Poker has much growth in it. By contrast, Sports Betting & Slots are growing massively. Why anyone would enjoy playing Online Slots is, to me, one of the world's great mysteries, but there it is.
Software issues? Yikes, nobody wishes they were addressed more than me, ditto the other Sky Poker dedicated Suits but The Business don't look at it the same way as poker fanatics like you & me. Of course we'd like to see investment in the Sky Poker product, but I'm aware they have their reasons for their current policies. (Which may or may not change going forward). Bear in mind The Business also owns PokerStars which is monsta huge & a global leader in most categories so maybe they think why invest in a second Product in the same sector in a sector which is flat at best & certainly in long-term decline?
Does all or some of that make sense? We might not end up agreeing, but I'd like to think we can understand each other's position.
As an aside, it makes me very sad that we don't see enough reasoned debates like this so I'm 100% fine with your observations. For me, the more the better, but more & more the Community is becoming becoming dominated by those pesky conspiracy theorists. Best not start me off on that topic...
I only looked at the Headline Tourneys, I did not look at the smaller stuff, but I don't doubt you are largely correct.
"Falling numbers, sure can be put down to the regulators measures and I applaud the measures taken for problem gamblers (who wants the on their conscious) but I do feel this has been rather forced by forces above onto gambling sites rather than done on their own without prompting but still credit where credit is due."
To be fair to SB&G, they took pre-emptive action as to Responsible Gaming & they did so way ahead of the regulation which now requires them to do it. I can guarantee they were way ahead of the wider industry in doing this & they have every reason to be proud of their approach in this area. It has for sure cost the Business, & Sky Poker in particular, a whole lot of money, but potentially it's also saved a lot of ruined lives & even deaths. So it was the correct route.
"I am only going by memory but I think if i researched it more and done a graph of guarantees through the last ten years it would only be going down year on year if only slightly compared to last years."
Don't disagree with that. As I explained earlier, there are so many reasons for that.
"One look at the once good forum would be enough to discourage any new players engaging but i am also thankful we still have the luxury of an open forum as its an excluive concept for sky"
Sadly, the "it's rigged" stuff is definitely debasing the Forum. Fortunately, very few agree with the nonsense that is being said, so it's not really harmful to the Business as a whole, but it definitely degrades the Forum as it's impossible to debate with them in a meaningful & adult way.
I'd just like to add that we hear so much negativity about the future of Sky Poker. I'd like a quid for every time I read in the last year "RIP Sky Poker" but we are still here, albeit showing our age & getting a bit creaky.
FWIW, as I said, I'm not party to the Group plans, but from what I'm told, there's no reason why Sky Poker won't remain here for the foreseeable future.
I was annoyed in my earlier post because everywhere you look nowadays are people moaning about stuff, when the reality of the situation is that the thing they are moaning about is actually flipping fantastic. There's no justification for it.
For example, if one were to say that the promotions they offer here are the greatest in all of history, with regard to online poker, that would not be at all far from the truth, yet people always moan about them.
I sense we are all on the same page here, we just have different ways of expressing it.
Here Anglela124 expressed a disappointment in what she/he feels they are seeing and asked do the bigwigs care at all in what the customer thinks, as the feeling of many is the poker on Sky is no longer their priority.
Kapowblamz is there with a confrontational post straight away. Did this thread merit that tone? I dont think it did. It then immediately it has the potential to turn into something Anglela certainly did not intend.
Tikay says he had to remove some inappropriate posts. On this subject? Really??
Have a differing opinion, but if its kept just as a debate, there really shouldnt be a problem.....