My personal opinion is........... I'm not sure how many players sky intend to have picked/qualify for the next generation of TSP but all this swapping and changing seems to confuse matters for me. If you are picked how long is it for etc... I think a better way would be to pick the best of the best on sky, ppl who will/can take down these mtt's and KEEP them on the team for 6mnths or a yr. Then run qualifiers to give others the chance to represent sky at ONE mtt....(if they bink, really impress then maybe review their position on the team) Just my thoughts Posted by waller02
Maybe it should be the best of the best mate, but i don't think thats the whole point of TSP, it's there to promote skypoker to the wider world. Having a mix of different abilities and personalities would best achieve that.
Also the "best of the best" would not guarantee any success.
It should be accessible and open to all. Most importantly, in my opinion it should be available to people that would represent sky the best.
In Response to Re: Team Sky Poker - The Next Generation... : Maybe it should be the best of the best mate, but i don't think thats the whole point of TSP, it's there to promote skypoker to the wider world. Having a mix of different abilities and personalities would best achieve that. Also the "best of the best" would not guarantee any success. It should be accessible and open to all. Most importantly, in my opinion it should be available to people that would represent sky the best. Posted by LARSON7
yeah which is why i said run qualifiers giving people the chance to represent sky for one mtt.
If the whole point of TSP is to pick any tom,di ck and harry because they post a lot on a forum, turn up to every SPT, while some others who reguarly make ft's of the mains but rarely post etc. are overlooked then it takes away that feeling of having achieved something by making the team imo.........it will end up with half the forum being on TSP at some point, picked, played, dropped......is that a good image??? not in my eyes but each to their own
I just feel being part of TSP should be something you have to work hard at and really earn it.
TSP - Fantastic idea, a brilliant way of promoting Sky poker
The event at DTD was run magnificantly and i was definitely proud of the Sky players
If a last longer is to be considered then i think it should be the 2 that lasted the longest and that was Andrew and....erm..let me think...oh yes...Jamielou (cough)
Totally in agreement that Julian should remain but only if he wears shoes!!
Failing that perhaps consider the mother of the TSP'er who lasted 2nd longest and the wife of the person who lasted 2 longest of all the sky players, and that would be..................meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
The flip side to that though Larson is that one of the best ways to promote Sky Poker is for them to be able to say 'Look, our player just won the GUKPT/Monte Carlo' or the like, and obviously the best players on the site have a better chance of winning.
The other important bit though is that all players involved need to represent the site well, poker aside, being friendly at the table etc etc and the best players on the site aint necessarily gonna be the nicest. That's why people like Tommy imo are brilliant for TSP because he's a great player and also a great fella.
I definitely think it should be available to all though, but I do agree with Waller's point about it maybe lasting for more than 1 MTT for maybe the better players.
It does lose some of it's impact I feel if the team changes too often.
In Response to Re: Team Sky Poker - The Next Generation... : Maybe it should be the best of the best mate, but i don't think thats the whole point of TSP, it's there to promote skypoker to the wider world. Having a mix of different abilities and personalities would best achieve that. Also the "best of the best" would not guarantee any success. It should be accessible and open to all. Most importantly, in my opinion it should be available to people that would represent sky the best. Posted by LARSON7
The 'picks' should be the best players IMO. Or at least have some sort of decent track record in MTTs. Players should not be picked for community aspect etc. They may as well go along and cheerlead in that case.
The other spaces anyone can win - therefore being accessible. Thinki there are a variety of ways this can be done, as has already been mentioned in this thread.
The flip side to that though Larson is that one of the best ways to promote Sky Poker is for them to be able to say 'Look, our player just won the GUKPT/Monte Carlo' or the like, and obviously the best players on the site have a better chance of winning. The other important bit though is that all players involved need to represent the site well, poker aside, being friendly at the table etc etc and the best players on the site aint necessarily gonna be the nicest. That's why people like Tommy imo are brilliant for TSP because he's a great player and also a great fella. I definitely think it should be available to all though, but I do agree with Waller's point about it maybe lasting for more than 1 MTT for maybe the better players. It does lose some of it's impact I feel if the team changes too often. Posted by Lambert180
can i just say though paul...I think you genuinely did deserve to be picked for the reason I gave in your diary ...................oh, and having said all that, I would gladly be a hypocrite if sky decided to pick me haha
Ok, I've written a proposal for TSP. I'm not arrogant enough to believe everyone would agree with it but there might be some stuff here people will like (and dislike) and would appreciate feedback and discussion on my idea. It has gotten a little tl;dr (or as I like to call it, Beanehesque) but here is is.
Place allocation:
Keeping the football team like 11 which I thought was a good number and lovely fun with the footie shirts. We should also have the team motto 'We go to eleven.' Anyway, the breakdown:
1 Place - Julian. Obviously, site pro, credit to site and UK poker. Great taste in footwear.
2 Places - Managers picks. I feel it's important that the site have a couple of picks. Firstly and bluntly, it's their money. Secondly there are plenty of players who would not get through any qualifier set up who would be a credit to the site as well as have a great shout in a tournament. Just look at Jamie Lou's and Andrew's performances. They not only played great but represented the site and its members with great style and grace.
3 Places - The Sunday qualifier tournie. Great for marketing. Would attract sign ups when plugged on the live show, open to all via direct buy in or the satty structure for the last one.
1 Place - 'Winner stays on.' Top finisher or biggest casher if multiple events (more on that later) in the previous team retains their place (aside from Julian of course). Only fair I think and lovely motivation.
2 Places - Tournament Leader board Final qualifiers. Bring back a modified version of of the old MTT and STT leaderboards. Top 20 in each are entered into a Sunday qualifying MTT, top 2 get seats. This is designed to be a dedicated way in for the low and mid-stake tournie grinders but will get a number of the higher stakes tournie players as well.
1 Place - DTD Qualifer. I've pretty much played on every site you could name. I've never seen anything as wonderful as the DTD. It would also be a perfect way to practically ensure a small stakes recreational player would get a spot. I'm suggesting a league format over either a 1 or 2 month period (would discuss this with DTW et all), top finisher gets a seat. I know this limits it to people who can only play Mondays, but frankly you have to pick a day. This seems like the best one IMO.
1 Place - Priority freeroll. Notice there was no cash leaderboard before? This is pretty much to compensate for that. Also while people correctly say that small stakes players who are loyal to the site should get a way in to promotions, people who say the rake busters should as well are equally correct. This way is designed for the higher stakes player to have an ensured entry, however plenty of mid-stakes players will get a shot as well.
Yes I know this has the taste of the Multi Prize Pool of it, overly complicated and poker shouldn't be that fiddly. The proposal is an attempt to please all parties. Forum players and non forum players. Micro to high stakes players. Recreational players to Regs. TBH I just hope that all counts to eleven, I'd be pretty embarrassed if it didn't.
Events
Tikay mentioned earlier about 'how to cut the cake.' I have no idea if SkyPoker's initial outlay for the Monte Carlo was intended to be the standard or a bigger sum to get TSP going again. Assuming pretty much the former (£12.1k tournie entries + Overheads for filming on Day 1 + Overheads for Tikay and Tighty throughout):
1) SkyPoker announce where TSP will play in a given quarter. I would suggest this either be:
i) Two DTD Monthly Deepstack dates for one TSP group or; ii) One big tournie such as the Monte Carlo or others.
2) If we look at the cost of (i) it's £660 per player, but the other two costs pretty much double (more if filming is there for both lives days). Any left over can go into the pot for other events, marketing or be held for other promotions etc. Maybe even through in for a Friday night meal for everyone as an icebreaker/warm up. Part (ii) would use the model as per the last TSP outing.
Final Thoughts
I really hope I 'get' what TSP is meant to be amount. Personally I think it's wonderful. We did feel like a team at the MC, there was no snobbishness, no arrogance from higher stakes players to lower stakes players, no resentment between anyone. Everyone got on and represented the site and the team with great panache. Even in my regrettably short time at the table every one of my table mates asked me about SkyPoker. I get that SkyPoker will quite rightly want people to respond positively. Not in a sycophantic type way, but with enthusiasm and class. I feel the best way to encourage that atmosphere is to make the team accessible for everyone and to continue the great team spirit at these events. Encourage the multi table grinder to come out of their shell in the live atmosphere. Give the occasional but very loyal small stakes MTT player that shot at a massive score. Keep the team spirit going. Do that and everyone on the team will display what a good site this is and it'll turn a lot of peoples heads at these events. They might just think 'I want remember when 52 cards and a number on a screen was fun.'
Feedback, thoughts and suggested alterations are all welcome. Hopefully there's something in here that people will like. I know you can't please everyone, doesn't stop me trying though
Sounds pretty good to me. While I think it's good for the majority to be up for grabs, I do think it's a good idea to keep some captain (Tikay) picks in there.
My only concern, which you've already mentioned is that there's ALOT to it. Would be quite tricky to fit all that you've said into a short, snappy promotion page on Sky.
I was gonna write a hefty reply but I'm just knackered so I'll probably pop in tomorrow to give some more thoughts but in short... thumbs up
I really like Tommys suggestion. Noone can complain that it doesn't affect them in any way so it does give pretty much anyone a chance to be apart of TSP.
The Nottingham thing sounds like it went really well, so congrats to all involved. A few points from my perspective.
Julian & Ryan Both are fantastic figureheads for SkyPoker, and are obvious choices to continue to represent SP at any future events.
Potential Winners As others have mentioned, there is a greater positive impact, for the SkyPoker business, if Team SkyPoker has good results. Therefore, it may be a good idea to select one or two players, based on them being amongst the best MTT players on the site. I'm not sure who these are, but I guess it's pretty easy to narrow it down.
Good Stories People with a 'good story' getting a good result can be great PR. A lady winning a big event, a low stakes player, someone who has fought personal adversity etc... Some people got quite aggro when the some of the team was announced for the last event, but it's not necessarily great from a message angle, to send a team of 20 - 25 year old poker obsessives, who have never had a real job, or any life experiences.
Location I am one of Dusk Til Dawn's biggest fans, but I'm not sure sending a team there every time is a great idea. At least part of the reason for spending money on this, would be to get SkyPoker visible, in order to attract potential new business. Going to the same place each time, will result in selling to the mostly, same small core of people time after time.
I think all Tommys ideas are great and hope that SKY do not see it as over complicated to organise. I definately feel there should be some kind of league that will award places because this is the best way to reward consistancy in play and loyalty to SKY.
When I say loyalty to SKY I just mean the winners will have had to play a lot on the site to get to the top of the league.
1) Most of what I wanted to post was covered by Tommy, so please refer above.
2) Winner stays on is an awesome idea.
3) Thewy simply has to be the Captain.
4) Manager's picks are an imperative part of the process. They encourage players to improve and up their game in order to grab the boss' attention and impress him (bit like the training sessions for reserves!) This also goes back to the very ethos of Sky Poker ... we try to improve our games more than any other site. We watch, learn and interact constantly. Secondly, it also encourages people to get involved in the community and also keep their levels of decorum and decency for other members - i.e. you want to be an AMBASSADOR!
5) Whilst I can see the benefit of lots of lower buy-ins, having one less-frequent and larger buy-in tourney creates a level of exclusivity and excitement. I am not saying it will, but is there is a risk that more frequent picks will tire more quickly. I would also note that the Monte Carlo attracted some big name players ... those who manage to qualify get a real shot of playing some big names and taking down a bigger prize. That will, imo, add to the excitement.
6) Tikay has to remain manager. He has the backing of the fans and knows the Sky players more than anyone else.
7) What about sub-teams at one event. One example, say, pick the 6 players as normal but have 3 girls and 3 boys and have a bit of rivalry and bragging rights there? Just to freshen things up a bit!
A lot of very good posts already andobviously I agree with everything Mrs Bromley has said!
Seriously though, following on from Mrs B's point 5 above I have to say that when I first started reading the thread I thought that more frequent lower buy-in's would be good as there would simply be more chance of being picked! However, I do agree that a £1k buy-in event (whatever event it may be) is better for exclusivity etc etc.
I still think though that representing Sky Poker en masse is an amazing idea. Imagine 50 or so players in sky merchandise representing the site...who else does that. at this level..nobody!
My idea is therefore to allow people to 'opt in' to a loyalty scheme to accumulkate C4P money to get enough together for a £100/£200/£300 BI event and then an event can be picked every 6 months or so where everyone that has used their accumulated C4P bonus to attend on behalf of sky wearing either as hoody/t-shirt/patch to promote sky and this can be a bit of a mini TSP outing. I know there will be a lot more to think about to make this happen but it might be a way to have the best of both worlds when deciding whether to have one high BI event or lots of smaller BI events.
poker's never really been much of a team game but it was a really fun day, tikay & dylan really helped bring everyone together & i think having the 861 camera guys there gave it that 'this is a big deal' feel.
many tx for the kind words with regard to my place in the team, i don't think the initial plan was for me to be a shoe-in for every event but obviously i'd be thrilled to play one again.
tommys last post was a very decent stab at a workable blueprint with longevity...if sky poker were to stick with a TSP outing every quarter i could really see it gathering momentum & getting the brand awareness out there.
In Response to Re: Team Sky Poker - The Next Generation... : That'll be a first. I really thought it had the base from which to grow something unique, & special, & I hope it continues. I don't know any other site which does anything like it. My thoughts? It depends on how you want to cut the "spend cake". Personally, rather than, say, one big outing per year, or whatever, I think 3 or 4 smaller ones would maybe work better, if only because it spreads the opportunities to be part of it amongst a lot more players. If the Live Events were, say, £250, we could do four for the same money as was spent on the £1,100-er, at £300-ish, three for the same money, that sort of thing. So instead of 11 Players getting a shot at it, there would be 33 or 44 slots up for grabs, & we could do it once per quarter. Has to be better imo. Should those who have had a shot get another go? I think a maximum of x should, say 2 or 3. Thewy is our Site Pro, so to my mind, he is the Captain, & should be there. After all, he's been winning Tourneys forever, & he sets a great example in table behaviour. Maybe we could/should include the player who did best last time, as a sort of incentive. Open mind really, but more outings at smaller Tourneys would be my main thought - it spreads the chances around so many more players. Posted by Tikay10
I remember ppl complaining/moaning about the old structures of TSP where the lower stakes players never got a lookin but when you see some of the names now it gives hope to everyone . Just because you don,t play at the highest stakes shouldn,t exclude you from this which looks to be happening now. I still agree ppl playing at higher stakes should get extra incentives as they contribube more in rake but a good idea imo
EDIT : maybe if they were smaller tournaments as well region could be taken into account somewhat as well. If someones picked and its a £200 tournament for exmple they could be paying more than that in expenses depending on where they live and where the tournament is being played. Theres so many tours now with as little as $100 dollar buy ins , but obv travel may become an issue for some ppl and some will travel further than others just to represent TSP
Love the TSP concept and would very much like to have the chance to be part of it. I think a mixture of picks and qualifiers is good but picking less Tottenham fans wd be better. 3 or 4 chances a year also good.
Fantastic to hear/see sky acting hot on the heals of the recent TSP. Its was a wonderful event for those who made the team and fantastics for those of us glued to the forum.
As regards the next gen TSP, personally I would go for 3 quarterly trips to dtd for the monthly deepstack, with the team being comprised of:
Thewy, the highest finisher from the previous event, and a managers pick from the previous event. Other 8 places up for grabs through which ever qualifying systems sky chooses.
My additional suggestion is that the 4 highest cumulative cashers, plus julian get into the spring monte carlo, as the fourth quarterly event.
Call it skys 5 a side as opposed to the usual 11.
Looking forward to see the new TSP material as soon as, definitely my favourite sky promo.
Comments
Also the "best of the best" would not guarantee any success.
It should be accessible and open to all. Most importantly, in my opinion it should be available to people that would represent sky the best.
If the whole point of TSP is to pick any tom,di ck and harry because they post a lot on a forum, turn up to every SPT, while some others who reguarly make ft's of the mains but rarely post etc. are overlooked then it takes away that feeling of having achieved something by making the team imo.........it will end up with half the forum being on TSP at some point, picked, played, dropped......is that a good image??? not in my eyes but each to their own
I just feel being part of TSP should be something you have to work hard at and really earn it.
The other important bit though is that all players involved need to represent the site well, poker aside, being friendly at the table etc etc and the best players on the site aint necessarily gonna be the nicest. That's why people like Tommy imo are brilliant for TSP because he's a great player and also a great fella.
I definitely think it should be available to all though, but I do agree with Waller's point about it maybe lasting for more than 1 MTT for maybe the better players.
It does lose some of it's impact I feel if the team changes too often.
Place allocation:
Keeping the football team like 11 which I thought was a good number and lovely fun with the footie shirts. We should also have the team motto 'We go to eleven.' Anyway, the breakdown:
1 Place - Julian. Obviously, site pro, credit to site and UK poker. Great taste in footwear.
2 Places - Managers picks. I feel it's important that the site have a couple of picks. Firstly and bluntly, it's their money. Secondly there are plenty of players who would not get through any qualifier set up who would be a credit to the site as well as have a great shout in a tournament. Just look at Jamie Lou's and Andrew's performances. They not only played great but represented the site and its members with great style and grace.
3 Places - The Sunday qualifier tournie. Great for marketing. Would attract sign ups when plugged on the live show, open to all via direct buy in or the satty structure for the last one.
1 Place - 'Winner stays on.' Top finisher or biggest casher if multiple events (more on that later) in the previous team retains their place (aside from Julian of course). Only fair I think and lovely motivation.
2 Places - Tournament Leader board Final qualifiers. Bring back a modified version of of the old MTT and STT leaderboards. Top 20 in each are entered into a Sunday qualifying MTT, top 2 get seats. This is designed to be a dedicated way in for the low and mid-stake tournie grinders but will get a number of the higher stakes tournie players as well.
1 Place - DTD Qualifer. I've pretty much played on every site you could name. I've never seen anything as wonderful as the DTD. It would also be a perfect way to practically ensure a small stakes recreational player would get a spot. I'm suggesting a league format over either a 1 or 2 month period (would discuss this with DTW et all), top finisher gets a seat. I know this limits it to people who can only play Mondays, but frankly you have to pick a day. This seems like the best one IMO.
1 Place - Priority freeroll. Notice there was no cash leaderboard before? This is pretty much to compensate for that. Also while people correctly say that small stakes players who are loyal to the site should get a way in to promotions, people who say the rake busters should as well are equally correct. This way is designed for the higher stakes player to have an ensured entry, however plenty of mid-stakes players will get a shot as well.
Yes I know this has the taste of the Multi Prize Pool of it, overly complicated and poker shouldn't be that fiddly. The proposal is an attempt to please all parties. Forum players and non forum players. Micro to high stakes players. Recreational players to Regs. TBH I just hope that all counts to eleven, I'd be pretty embarrassed if it didn't.
Events
Tikay mentioned earlier about 'how to cut the cake.' I have no idea if SkyPoker's initial outlay for the Monte Carlo was intended to be the standard or a bigger sum to get TSP going again. Assuming pretty much the former (£12.1k tournie entries + Overheads for filming on Day 1 + Overheads for Tikay and Tighty throughout):
1) SkyPoker announce where TSP will play in a given quarter. I would suggest this either be:
i) Two DTD Monthly Deepstack dates for one TSP group or;
ii) One big tournie such as the Monte Carlo or others.
2) If we look at the cost of (i) it's £660 per player, but the other two costs pretty much double (more if filming is there for both lives days). Any left over can go into the pot for other events, marketing or be held for other promotions etc. Maybe even through in for a Friday night meal for everyone as an icebreaker/warm up. Part (ii) would use the model as per the last TSP outing.
Final Thoughts
I really hope I 'get' what TSP is meant to be amount. Personally I think it's wonderful. We did feel like a team at the MC, there was no snobbishness, no arrogance from higher stakes players to lower stakes players, no resentment between anyone. Everyone got on and represented the site and the team with great panache. Even in my regrettably short time at the table every one of my table mates asked me about SkyPoker. I get that SkyPoker will quite rightly want people to respond positively. Not in a sycophantic type way, but with enthusiasm and class. I feel the best way to encourage that atmosphere is to make the team accessible for everyone and to continue the great team spirit at these events. Encourage the multi table grinder to come out of their shell in the live atmosphere. Give the occasional but very loyal small stakes MTT player that shot at a massive score. Keep the team spirit going. Do that and everyone on the team will display what a good site this is and it'll turn a lot of peoples heads at these events. They might just think 'I want remember when 52 cards and a number on a screen was fun.'
Feedback, thoughts and suggested alterations are all welcome. Hopefully there's something in here that people will like. I know you can't please everyone, doesn't stop me trying though
My only concern, which you've already mentioned is that there's ALOT to it. Would be quite tricky to fit all that you've said into a short, snappy promotion page on Sky.
I was gonna write a hefty reply but I'm just knackered so I'll probably pop in tomorrow to give some more thoughts but in short... thumbs up
A few points from my perspective.
Julian & Ryan
Both are fantastic figureheads for SkyPoker, and are obvious choices to continue to represent SP at any future events.
Potential Winners
As others have mentioned, there is a greater positive impact, for the SkyPoker business, if Team SkyPoker has good results. Therefore, it may be a good idea to select one or two players, based on them being amongst the best MTT players on the site. I'm not sure who these are, but I guess it's pretty easy to narrow it down.
Good Stories
People with a 'good story' getting a good result can be great PR.
A lady winning a big event, a low stakes player, someone who has fought personal adversity etc...
Some people got quite aggro when the some of the team was announced for the last event, but it's not necessarily great from a message angle, to send a team of 20 - 25 year old poker obsessives, who have never had a real job, or any life experiences.
Location
I am one of Dusk Til Dawn's biggest fans, but I'm not sure sending a team there every time is a great idea.
At least part of the reason for spending money on this, would be to get SkyPoker visible, in order to attract potential new business.
Going to the same place each time, will result in selling to the mostly, same small core of people time after time.
I definately feel there should be some kind of league that will award places because this is the best way to reward consistancy in play and loyalty to SKY.
When I say loyalty to SKY I just mean the winners will have had to play a lot on the site to get to the top of the league.
2) Winner stays on is an awesome idea.
3) Thewy simply has to be the Captain.
4) Manager's picks are an imperative part of the process. They encourage players to improve and up their game in order to grab the boss' attention and impress him (bit like the training sessions for reserves!) This also goes back to the very ethos of Sky Poker ... we try to improve our games more than any other site. We watch, learn and interact constantly. Secondly, it also encourages people to get involved in the community and also keep their levels of decorum and decency for other members - i.e. you want to be an AMBASSADOR!
I remember ppl complaining/moaning about the old structures of TSP where the lower stakes players never got a lookin but when you see some of the names now it gives hope to everyone . Just because you don,t play at the highest stakes shouldn,t exclude you from this which looks to be happening now. I still agree ppl playing at higher stakes should get extra incentives as they contribube more in rake but a good idea imo
EDIT : maybe if they were smaller tournaments as well region could be taken into account somewhat as well. If someones picked and its a £200 tournament for exmple they could be paying more than that in expenses depending on where they live and where the tournament is being played. Theres so many tours now with as little as $100 dollar buy ins , but obv travel may become an issue for some ppl and some will travel further than others just to represent TSP