FWIW I'd rather have a Slyklist, Maxally, geldy or Dohhhhhhh in the team rather than a cash player. Forgive me for steriotyping, but the cash players I know personally, have become numb when it comes to winning/losing money. Whereas you only have to read the forum to see the passion, enthusiasm and commitment of Slyklist, Maxally, Geldy and Dohhhhhhhh If they got a chance, they'd sweat blood for the team based on my own experiences I don't think cash players have the same heart and soul OOps typo for Maxally it's probably blood sweat and beers lol Posted by DUNMIDOSH
a bad player can win an MTT a bad player will lose money playing cash
that is all
fwiw I would back a good poker player essentially if your a good poker player you should be good at both - key is knowing both short stack and deep stack pokerz
Phil Ivey is probably the best exmaple of a complete poker player
It depends what Sky want to do with TSP at the end of the day. Skypoker generally is about giving the little guy a go (I don't mean Matt Bates), so do they want to fill the team up with players who would go into the event with it being the largest they have ever played (I'd class myself in that category) or do they want to fill it with proven winners and high stakes cash players like offshoot/ljamesl/gliterbabe etc to try and put Skypoker on the map.
Personally I like the league format over 3 months for MTTs, pretty much exactly how they used to have it worked. Not sure how you would go about picking STT and cash without it all coming down to a rake race.
It depends what Sky want to do with TSP at the end of the day. Skypoker generally is about giving the little guy a go (I don't mean Matt Bates), so do they want to fill the team up with players who would go into the event with it being the largest they have ever played (I'd class myself in that category) or do they want to fill it with proven winners and high stakes cash players like offshoot/ljamesl/gliterbabe etc to try and put Skypoker on the map. Personally I like the league format over 3 months for MTTs, pretty much exactly how they used to have it worked. Not sure how you would go about picking STT and cash without it all coming down to a rake race. Posted by FlashFlush
It depends what Sky want to do with TSP at the end of the day. Skypoker generally is about giving the little guy a go (I don't mean Matt Bates), so do they want to fill the team up with players who would go into the event with it being the largest they have ever played (I'd class myself in that category) or do they want to fill it with proven winners and high stakes cash players like offshoot/ljamesl/gliterbabe etc to try and put Skypoker on the map. Personally I like the league format over 3 months for MTTs, pretty much exactly how they used to have it worked. Not sure how you would go about picking STT and cash without it all coming down to a rake race. Posted by FlashFlush
Think this Formatt was the best too, guys and gals who are grinding/ paying the most rake and well usualy are competent players. Also whose to say Tikay still cant just throw a few picks of his choice in too?
I agree with some of the above posts, if you whack in a load of cash players who don't do well in MTT's currently it is a bit pointless unless you can find the cash players who will go way out of the way to improve their MTT game.
As the general consensus states a cash player is a better player than an MTT player as it is easier to adapt to play MTT's, I feel that as a site there are not many good cash and MTT players which will make it a far harder task to pick a team to play MTT's where the popular players are cash with a weak MTT game. Obviously there are exceptions I won't list as I wouldn't want to miss any player out.
They should pick half and then the other half from a league format IMO
or do they want to fill it with proven winners and high stakes cash players like offshoot/ljamesl/gliterbabe etc to try and put Skypoker on the map. Posted by FlashFlush
Yes there's proof, sharkscope any of them for scheduled on Sky.
Those you named above are all good MTT players and as far as I know Andrew is the only regular cash player out of them (but I may be wrong).
My point wasn't that MTT players aren't good at MTTs or MTT players can't be good at cash BUT
Good cash players = good mtt players (the same definitely can't be said for the reverse).
Obviously good MTT players are good MTT players and should be in the mix for picks too, I was just arguing against a point earlier in the thread that it should be just MTT players and cash/stt players should be ignored.
But my point was that there pretty much aren't any good cash players that don't do well at MTTs... Apologies if I leave out names but... Coxy Beaneh Lol_Raise Offshoot TommyD Redmond Lee Ryan Spittles BigHawk Bolly lJamesl Jakally IH8PALACE Pryce6 Rancid TinTin EvilPingu All prodominantly cash game players (afaik), but all do well in MTTs, cos imo if you can do good at cash, then you will do good at MTTs. Posted by Lambert180
cough!
but in all seriousness how did this get brought up in the thread about cash players not good at mtts and vice versa for mtt players. They are players that can do both and there is players that will admit they are only good at the one,regardless of what format is your best game everyone should get chance for tsp.
Lol knew it wuold happen! Apologies Liamboi... another player that is a very good cash player who does very good at MTTs. Just scoped you actually, didnt realise how sick your stats were, wp
Yeah I agree, everyone shuold get a shout, that was the point I was trying to defend. There are great MTT players, and great cash players (who will almost certainly be successful MTTers) so no1 should be excluded.
I think your sharkscope is broken I agree with everything you are saying though especially the likes of scotty77 and tommyd they are extremely good MTT players. For what it's worth I am a classic example of the point you are putting across I cannot play cash anywhere near the standard I play in MTT's which is depressing lol
The differences between MTTs and cash are nowhere near as big as people make them out to be, imo. It's almost as if people think it's like comparing NLHE, to Stud, as if they're two completely different games or something??
The only differences you'll usually find, is in:
Bet-sizing - Self-explanatory. Player Pool - Cash players will become familiar with a lot of fellow grinders. In MTTs, this rarely crops up. ICM Considerations - Equity calculations when laddering, non-existant in Cash. Short-Stack Vs Deep-Stack - This one usually gets overestimated imo. It's only regarding 2bet and 3bet shoving ranges, whereby Cash players will be slightly less experienced. Whereas MTTers will almost never have dealt with 5b/6b ranges deeper into a tourney, or playing a lot of 3b/4b pots.
Anyone who proclaims to be good at one and not the other, probably doesn't have an amazing grasp on the game, imo. People will say that Hellmuth is great in MTTs, but awful at Cash, and how he's a great example of someone who doesn't fit my description.
To which I would say... Anyone who rates PH, again, probably doesn't have a solid grasp of the game :P Just imo! #limpylimpy
The argument of Cash v MTT players is something that will go on and on and around in circles. Just like Live v Online players.
The fact is that poker is such a complex game with so many variables that no one can really quantify it.
For every Victor Blom there will be a Shaun Deeb. For every Julian Thew there is a Christopher Brammer. For every MattBates there is a Style2437.
I hope that if and when Sky do TSP, or a promotion like it, again then those selected will realise what an opportunity it is and hope they grasp it with both hands and most importantly treat it in the right spirit.
Most people who gets chosen for TSP will be slightly out of their comfort zone anyway. They will be going from an online 6 max format with an BIs typically of £11-£55 to a live 9 handed format of anything between £330 - £1100.
There is a massive difference in the skillset needed, and although having a solid and winning game online will put you in good stead, there are huge differences and so many unique situations that you'll encounter live.
I consider myself lucky to have talked at length about the live game with people like Julian Thew and Neil Channing and would advise anyone to really read/watch/listen to all the content that both those guys hvae put out there for free.
m.t.t are so different to cash. cash is like 3 card brag the man with the most money wins when you see the money in the top ten hands and the cards they play its unreal . they all have to be rich. I would love to be in the sky poker team im proud to wear the team colours I still wear the old kit at the spt
The argument of Cash v MTT players is something that will go on and on and around in circles. Just like Live v Online players. The fact is that poker is such a complex game with so many variables that no one can really quantify it. For every Victor Blom there will be a Shaun Deeb. For every Julian Thew there is a Christopher Brammer. For every MattBates there is a Style2437. I hope that if and when Sky do TSP, or a promotion like it, again then those selected will realise what an opportunity it is and hope they grasp it with both hands and most importantly treat it in the right spirit. Most people who gets chosen for TSP will be slightly out of their comfort zone anyway. They will be going from an online 6 max format with an BIs typically of £11-£55 to a live 9 handed format of anything between £330 - £1100. There is a massive difference in the skillset needed, and although having a solid and winning game online will put you in good stead, there are huge differences and so many unique situations that you'll encounter live. I consider myself lucky to have talked at length about the live game with people like Julian Thew and Neil Channing and would advise anyone to really read/watch/listen to all the content that both those guys hvae put out there for free. Posted by scotty77
+1 to this
Being in TSP last time was such an amazing and exciting experience for me... if only so Julian could take us to the oldest pub in the country
It's a great promotion for Sky to run and I'm sure the odd Sky final tablist looks great for the site but first and foremost, I think it's just about representing the site the well. The football style TSP shirts definitely got people talking at my table at the last event and gave me a good chance to kinda tell them what it was all about etc.
Would take all bets on a last longer in the UKOPS. Vs Batesy, MrD, or any MTT grinder. There for the taking Dr.IDCU and Professor Sly! EDIT: just realised how self-serving these posts sound. Not trying to attention wh ore guys, I pwomise. Just a stone-cold-degen Posted by Smitalos
Comments
a bad player will lose money playing cash
that is all
fwiw I would back a good poker player
essentially if your a good poker player you should be good at both - key is knowing both short stack and deep stack pokerz
Phil Ivey is probably the best exmaple of a complete poker player
As the general consensus states a cash player is a better player than an MTT player as it is easier to adapt to play MTT's, I feel that as a site there are not many good cash and MTT players which will make it a far harder task to pick a team to play MTT's where the popular players are cash with a weak MTT game. Obviously there are exceptions I won't list as I wouldn't want to miss any player out.
They should pick half and then the other half from a league format IMO
Apologies if I leave out names but...
Coxy
Beaneh
Lol_Raise
Offshoot
TommyD
Redmond Lee
Ryan Spittles
BigHawk
Bolly
lJamesl
Jakally
IH8PALACE
Pryce6
Rancid
TinTin
EvilPingu
All prodominantly cash game players (afaik), but all do well in MTTs, cos imo if you can do good at cash, then you will do good at MTTs.
Is there proof they are? What about the likes of divsdreams, solack, andrew1947.
Those you named above are all good MTT players and as far as I know Andrew is the only regular cash player out of them (but I may be wrong).
My point wasn't that MTT players aren't good at MTTs or MTT players can't be good at cash BUT
Good cash players = good mtt players (the same definitely can't be said for the reverse).
Obviously good MTT players are good MTT players and should be in the mix for picks too, I was just arguing against a point earlier in the thread that it should be just MTT players and cash/stt players should be ignored.
Yeah I agree, everyone shuold get a shout, that was the point I was trying to defend. There are great MTT players, and great cash players (who will almost certainly be successful MTTers) so no1 should be excluded.
I think your sharkscope is broken
I agree with everything you are saying though especially the likes of scotty77 and tommyd they are extremely good MTT players. For what it's worth I am a classic example of the point you are putting across I cannot play cash anywhere near the standard I play in MTT's which is depressing lol
It's almost as if people think it's like comparing NLHE, to Stud, as if they're two completely different games or something??
The only differences you'll usually find, is in:
Bet-sizing - Self-explanatory.
Player Pool - Cash players will become familiar with a lot of fellow grinders. In MTTs, this rarely crops up.
ICM Considerations - Equity calculations when laddering, non-existant in Cash.
Short-Stack Vs Deep-Stack - This one usually gets overestimated imo. It's only regarding 2bet and 3bet shoving ranges, whereby Cash players will be slightly less experienced. Whereas MTTers will almost never have dealt with 5b/6b ranges deeper into a tourney, or playing a lot of 3b/4b pots.
Anyone who proclaims to be good at one and not the other, probably doesn't have an amazing grasp on the game, imo.
People will say that Hellmuth is great in MTTs, but awful at Cash, and how he's a great example of someone who doesn't fit my description.
To which I would say...
Anyone who rates PH, again, probably doesn't have a solid grasp of the game :P Just imo! #limpylimpy
m.t.t are so different to cash.
cash is like 3 card brag the man with the most money wins
when you see the money in the top ten hands and the cards they play its unreal .
they all have to be rich.
I would love to be in the sky poker team im proud to wear the team colours I still wear the old kit at the spt
Being in TSP last time was such an amazing and exciting experience for me... if only so Julian could take us to the oldest pub in the country
It's a great promotion for Sky to run and I'm sure the odd Sky final tablist looks great for the site but first and foremost, I think it's just about representing the site the well. The football style TSP shirts definitely got people talking at my table at the last event and gave me a good chance to kinda tell them what it was all about etc.