Think I ran about neutral as to luck yesterday, got unlucky a few times, got lucky a few times. Standard stuff really.
The most satisfying win came in a £5.50, in which I got quartered in the very first level.
It was against my old & splendidly rotund Welsh friend, DAIBOOT.
I flopped the nut low, with 2nd nut flush re-draw, and top pair. Time to get some chips in the middle. I got there on the turn, & DAIBOOT was shovelling chips in. Pretty sure he has the same nut low as me, & I'm going to quarter him. "quartering" opponents is always good, one of those per DYM & you ought to win.
Instead, the biter got bit, as he had the nut low AND the nut flush, so it was me that got quartered.
Did I make a mistake here, in getting the lot in with nut/2nd nut?
I don't think so, oppo usually has one end locked in these spots, but we are playing for scoops or three quarters, & this was a tremendous & very rare spot. I nearly fainted when he showed up with nut-nut! "Nut-nut" is my favourite situation in PLO8, does not happen often, but it is a thing of beauty when it does.
So, we have a problem now, down to 1,000 chips (half starting stack) in Level One. In fact, more of a challenge than a problem.
Decided to seriously nit up, don't call ANYTHING, just fold fold fold. At 10/20, we don't want to raise out of a half stack, as it is PL, & nobody is going to be worried about calling 70 from a short stack. We'll likely end up with at least 3 callers, & we are a dog with ANY hand 4 way.
So just sat there, fold fold fold. I needed to get to Level 5 or 6 with a full pot bet behind, & then do the old heave-ho thing.
With a little help from Lady Luck, it worked a treat. Was down to 825 @ 100-200, found the perfect shoving hand (A-K-K-2) & I made it 700, got re-raised by A-2-3-4 (!!!), & we scooped. BOOM!
5 players left now, I have 10 Bigs (plenty in these DYM's) & I'm not even Table Shortie.
Without playing another hand, there were two quick KO's, & bingo, I've cashed. VERY satisfying, best win of the night.
Less satisfying was a bad play I made earlier. Had 1,100 @ 150-300, a very playable stack, & was "looking for a spot" with a two-way hand. HAS to be a two way hand. Found Q-Q-3-6 Double Suited. It was early position, but not quite enough to get it in, & I could afford to wait another orbit if nesessary - 900 chips is the key number here.
For some reason, I decided to pot it with this very marginal affair, & walked into ALEXIS who had A-A-K-2! Alexis is as solid as they get in these PLO8 DYM's, he plays technically perfect, so I knew the score immediately, but I could not fold for 200 more, so I needed to get very lucky. I failed. Pretty cross with myself really, I could & should have shown more patience.
Thing is, in the late stages, we DO need to nick a pot or two. We do this, ideally, with any 2-way hands in late position, & if we know the Blinds are able to find a fold unless they have a monster. Easier to pot with a marginal than call with a decent hand, of course. Bit daft to pot with a marginal in early position, too, when I still had enough chips to let the blinds go through once more.
Oddly, ALEXIS outdrew me badly in another one. He was shortish, I had a giant stack, & I had good Aces, & he'd potted from the button. Generally we always want to be first to bet, especially against a good oppo, we csn even fold Aces in some spots, but this was too good to resist, & I twice-covered him in chips anyway. He showed up with spanners, K-9-9-7 or somesuch, but did a get. Bleurgh.
I folded Aces pre three times last night. Sometimes it is just better to do that rather than tangle, especially as I had the win locked up already.
I actually folded Aces once last night when I was 3rd in chips with 4 players left! One chap, playing 4 Bigs, was limping in every hand. As a general rule, this guy HAS to bust out very soon. Sad, but true.
An enjoyable & satisfying evening.
More of the same tonight, & I hope any of you at a loose end will come & see what these PLO8 DYM's are all about - fun!
Ivanovic joined us for a few games yesterday.
He is "handy", & perfectly understands PLO & PLO8 calling & shoving ranges. He (correctly) folded K-K-x-x v me on one occasion.
If I pot-pot in early Levels, I HAVE to have the Aces, & good Aces. Nothing else, zilch, nada. Very few others can make that fold. We had plenty of banter, too. He plays good, & is young enough to be a policeman.
With a little help from Lady Luck, it worked a treat. Was down to 825 @ 100-200, found the perfect shoving hand (A-K-K-2) & I made it 700, got re-raised by A-2-3-4 (!!!), & we scooped. BOOM! Posted by Tikay10
sorry Tikay, how did you scoop when he has the same/better lo or is scoop still the correct lingo for when it is a hi only board (i´d assumed it was for winning hi & lo but maybe that´s my mistake)
ps great read - keep it up - although slightly fewer words would be ok
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : sorry Tikay, how did you scoop when he has the same/better lo or is scoop still the correct lingo for when it is a hi only board (i´d assumed it was for winning hi & lo but maybe that´s my mistake) ps great read - keep it up - although slightly fewer words would be ok Posted by GELDY
I scooped because the Low never came. It really is hard to grasp why so many players want to get it in with a Low only, but they do, & I'm not complaining!
A "scoop" is ANY pot where you get the lot, either both pots, or if there is no low, the high. However, when we are dealt two way hands, these are always deemed potential "scoop" hands. The whole idea of the game is to try for scoops, nothing else.
"slightly fewer words"....lol, not wrong. Can't help myself at times.
There is precious little Omaha Hi-Lo talk on here, anything that helps spread the gospel and explains how things work is beneficial.
I prefer a long, rambling post that explains everything as we go to a short sharp one that is 50% abbreviations and assumes everyone knows why it is "obv" that he had to make that call anyday.
FCHD, thanks, that is the other side of the coin, of course.
I start with the assimption that potential readers have never played the game, so yes, I do explain the basics at length.
I love that game, & want more people to discover the beauties of it. So the best way to do that is to try & explain it properly, in a way that newbies can understand.
A lot of people ask, or complain, to me, "why are there not more PLO PLO8 Tourneys in UKOPS, & on the daily schedule generally?"
The answer is simple, lack of interest/demand. No point saying "sort it out Sky", the answer is to spread the word. You can't blame the site, sometimes it is a 2 way thing, both parties need to do something.
PLO8 DYM liquidity has shot up during the last few months, so it can be done. PLO liquidity (DYM's) remains very very low, but I might try & persuade folks to try those soon, too.
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : OK, no trains. Concrete interest you? Sorry to hear about Dad, hope things soon improve. Dads are the best thing in the world, ever ever ever. Posted by Tikay10
I prefer planes to be honest as my father is a pilot and an aerospace engineer and I have an interest on them. My mum was also a flight attendant so when they both worked back in the days I had the opportunity to travel the world. I wish they were still working now as I have grown up and I could do more things in the plays we visited but can't change that. They gavem me the opportunity to visit the world.
Thanks for the wishes TK. I appreciate it. Hopefully things will get better in the future. Fingers crossed.
Noticed that there is an omaha game in the February fest, and may give the sats a try but...not played omaha before, so any brief (BRIEF!!) tips/hints/guides etc would be useful
Mr K... Noticed that there is an omaha game in the February fest, and may give the sats a try but...not played omaha before, so any brief (BRIEF!!) tips/hints/guides etc would be useful Ta Mother Posted by Amarie
MOTHER!
I'll reply after the Daily Groan/Update later this morning.
Can't promise "brief" though......
For those not aware, MOTHER plays tons of PLO8 DYM's, & is greatly respected by all the players who know what they are doing.
Her pre-flop hand selection is excellent, she understands calling & betting ranges though she may not even realise that. If she re-pots it, she is almost certainly ahead, or in good shape. Folds her SB if her hand is not good, too, happy to give "walks" in the mid stages onwards, which is EXACTLY correct in DYM's. Rarely limps into pots after Level 4.
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : I prefer planes to be honest as my father is a pilot and an aerospace engineer and I have an interest on them. My mum was also a flight attendant so when they both worked back in the days I had the opportunity to travel the world. I wish they were still working now as I have grown up and I could do more things in the plays we visited but can't change that. They gavem me the opportunity to visit the world. Thanks for the wishes TK. I appreciate it. Hopefully things will get better in the future. Fingers crossed. Posted by GreekWay[/QUOTE]
That really is a bittersweet Post, George.
It's so good that you really appreciate what your parents did for you, but so sad that Dad is currently unwell.
Good-vibes sent, I really hope things improve soon.
Really interesting & challenging sesion last night.
No matter how hard I tried, I coiuld not get ahead of the win count. Lost the first, won the next, then went W L W L W L L L W W & so on.
Eventually managed 4 wins on the pounce, promptly followed by 3 losses.
Only one x £11-er started all evening, & managed to lose that in hilarious fashion, when my good aces were busted by 9-9-9-3.
I kept trying, concentrating, really trying to get ahead. Was lucky enough to win the last 2 games, which got me the right side of the Win Count by 2, so that was a relief. Think I'd have played on if I lost those two.
A £6 loss on the day felt like a win in the end, to be truthful.
Wrong way to look at it, but if I'd have won that £11er, I'd have ended nicely ahead on the day. As it was, despite the 12-10 count, the loss of the £11er, meant that I did not win enough to cover the Reg Fees. In truth, a win rate yesterday of 54.5% is not good enough, 55% is needed to break even, & the target has to be 60%.
On the bright side.....
Loads of games going, despite the Champions League Football. Had 3 Tables on the go all evening, 4 sometimes, that's as good as it gets in PLO8 DYM's. Sadly, only the one @ £11 though. I register for EVERY £5.50 & up as soon as the Table spawns, & they fill pretty quickly once someone has regged.
On average, a new Table opened every 15 minutes. OK, it's not 'Stars, but for a UK facing independent site, that's astonishing considering it is PLO8.
Earned 111 Reward Points, so now have 705 (£7.05) after 5 days. Won't be able to play tomorrow (doing the Show), or put any volume in over the weekend (things to do, places to go, concrete to mix....), so today will be my last decent session until Sunday or Monday.
Most enjoyable, a bit of uphill & into the wind is never a bad thing, it tests the resolve a treat.
Overall, happy, the £200 is £246, the Octover Reward Points cash arrives tomorrow (£49.97) & has not been included in the numbers, & there is £7 on the board in Reward points for November already.
Bit like my old school reports.
Tony does try, but he needs to improve. Might help if he talked a bit less.
still enjoy reading this tikay ..keep it up. agree amarie is a very solid player..just like macacgirl,enabler and a few others ...have a good session today Posted by churchy18
Thanks churchy.
Don't really want to name all the good or solid players, as it may offend those I miss, but yes, Amarie, macacgirl, whizzewky, DavidCassi, macacgirl1, & Alexis are all very much to be respected.
Several of them have played over 10,000 of these games on Sky Poker, one has 38,000 games to his credit!
In Response to Re: That really is a bittersweet Post, George. It's so good that you really appreciate what your parents did for you, but so sad that Dad is currently unwell. Good-vibes sent, I really hope things improve soon. Posted by Tikay10
I just feel that if my parents haven't done most of the things that they have I wouldn't be the person I am today and I would definitely not be here today.
Altough I have made their life tough as they had to deal with all my expenses I think they are proud of me (although I have let them down coupe of times) and I am proud of them.
Mr K... Noticed that there is an omaha game in the February fest, and may give the sats a try but...not played omaha before, so any brief (BRIEF!!) tips/hints/guides etc would be useful Ta Mother Posted by Amarie
OK MOTHERRRRR.
If I were you, & you want to brush up on, or learn, PLO, I'd start with DYM's.
In DYM's we need two basic skills.
1) An ability to play whatever the format is - NLH, Heads Up, PLO, PLO8 etc.
2) An ability to grasp DYM concept.
Those two things are NOT connected.
Of the two, DYM concept is far & away the most important. John Connor wrote a lovely piece about DYM Strategy on here a while back, try & give that a read. However, you already execute the strategy beautifully in PLO8 DYM's, so that one is easy, job done.
So, now the PLO bit, & we'll assume you are on top of DYM strategy generally.
Simply, one-pair hands, multi-way, rarely win. Even Aces. We want rundowns, gapped rundowns, that sort of thing, or even a big pair with extensions - Say, K-K-Q-J.
PLO is a game of BIG cards & NUT hands. For newbies, take the view that 2nd nut is very often not good enough.
So we are looking for big cards that work together.
If my opponent showed me he had Aces pre-flop, & I'm playing deep enough, I would NEVER fold hands like this....
8-9-10-J
9-10-J-Q
10-J-Q-K
Take a flop, see what comes & if the flop fits, you are favourite against Mr A-A.
With, say, 8-9-10-J, a flop of 6-7-x-x is good, or any flop combo that you "wrap", 7-8-J, that sort of thing, is golden.
Beware of....
Under-Houses
Under-Straights
Paired Boards.
If you want, we can play some budget PLO DYM's for practice purposes, perhaps set an evening aside & play them back to back.
PS - Never, like NEVER NEVER NEVER, try & play PLO & PLO8 at the same time, an accident is inevitable, the two games need completely different mindsets. You'd need to "adjust your thinking" every time you are due to act on PLO, & then again, on PLO8. Do that for 2 or 3 hours, & there'll be a mighty big accident eventually.
Comments
Think I ran about neutral as to luck yesterday, got unlucky a few times, got lucky a few times. Standard stuff really.
The most satisfying win came in a £5.50, in which I got quartered in the very first level.
It was against my old & splendidly rotund Welsh friend, DAIBOOT.
I flopped the nut low, with 2nd nut flush re-draw, and top pair. Time to get some chips in the middle. I got there on the turn, & DAIBOOT was shovelling chips in. Pretty sure he has the same nut low as me, & I'm going to quarter him. "quartering" opponents is always good, one of those per DYM & you ought to win.
Instead, the biter got bit, as he had the nut low AND the nut flush, so it was me that got quartered.
Did I make a mistake here, in getting the lot in with nut/2nd nut?
I don't think so, oppo usually has one end locked in these spots, but we are playing for scoops or three quarters, & this was a tremendous & very rare spot. I nearly fainted when he showed up with nut-nut! "Nut-nut" is my favourite situation in PLO8, does not happen often, but it is a thing of beauty when it does.
So, we have a problem now, down to 1,000 chips (half starting stack) in Level One. In fact, more of a challenge than a problem.
Decided to seriously nit up, don't call ANYTHING, just fold fold fold. At 10/20, we don't want to raise out of a half stack, as it is PL, & nobody is going to be worried about calling 70 from a short stack. We'll likely end up with at least 3 callers, & we are a dog with ANY hand 4 way.
So just sat there, fold fold fold. I needed to get to Level 5 or 6 with a full pot bet behind, & then do the old heave-ho thing.
With a little help from Lady Luck, it worked a treat. Was down to 825 @ 100-200, found the perfect shoving hand (A-K-K-2) & I made it 700, got re-raised by A-2-3-4 (!!!), & we scooped. BOOM!
5 players left now, I have 10 Bigs (plenty in these DYM's) & I'm not even Table Shortie.
Without playing another hand, there were two quick KO's, & bingo, I've cashed. VERY satisfying, best win of the night.
Less satisfying was a bad play I made earlier. Had 1,100 @ 150-300, a very playable stack, & was "looking for a spot" with a two-way hand. HAS to be a two way hand. Found Q-Q-3-6 Double Suited. It was early position, but not quite enough to get it in, & I could afford to wait another orbit if nesessary - 900 chips is the key number here.
For some reason, I decided to pot it with this very marginal affair, & walked into ALEXIS who had A-A-K-2! Alexis is as solid as they get in these PLO8 DYM's, he plays technically perfect, so I knew the score immediately, but I could not fold for 200 more, so I needed to get very lucky. I failed. Pretty cross with myself really, I could & should have shown more patience.
Thing is, in the late stages, we DO need to nick a pot or two. We do this, ideally, with any 2-way hands in late position, & if we know the Blinds are able to find a fold unless they have a monster. Easier to pot with a marginal than call with a decent hand, of course. Bit daft to pot with a marginal in early position, too, when I still had enough chips to let the blinds go through once more.
Oddly, ALEXIS outdrew me badly in another one. He was shortish, I had a giant stack, & I had good Aces, & he'd potted from the button. Generally we always want to be first to bet, especially against a good oppo, we csn even fold Aces in some spots, but this was too good to resist, & I twice-covered him in chips anyway. He showed up with spanners, K-9-9-7 or somesuch, but did a get. Bleurgh.
I folded Aces pre three times last night. Sometimes it is just better to do that rather than tangle, especially as I had the win locked up already.
I actually folded Aces once last night when I was 3rd in chips with 4 players left! One chap, playing 4 Bigs, was limping in every hand. As a general rule, this guy HAS to bust out very soon. Sad, but true.
An enjoyable & satisfying evening.
More of the same tonight, & I hope any of you at a loose end will come & see what these PLO8 DYM's are all about - fun!
Ivanovic joined us for a few games yesterday.
He is "handy", & perfectly understands PLO & PLO8 calling & shoving ranges. He (correctly) folded K-K-x-x v me on one occasion.
If I pot-pot in early Levels, I HAVE to have the Aces, & good Aces. Nothing else, zilch, nada. Very few others can make that fold. We had plenty of banter, too. He plays good, & is young enough to be a policeman.
Crikey, I did it again. Once I start, I can't stop. That Post is WAY too long to be easily digestible.
Have sent myself a Memo.
or is scoop still the correct lingo for when it is a hi only board (i´d assumed it was for winning hi & lo but maybe that´s my mistake)
ps great read - keep it up - although slightly fewer words would be ok
A "scoop" is ANY pot where you get the lot, either both pots, or if there is no low, the high. However, when we are dealt two way hands, these are always deemed potential "scoop" hands. The whole idea of the game is to try for scoops, nothing else.
"slightly fewer words"....lol, not wrong. Can't help myself at times.
There is precious little Omaha Hi-Lo talk on here, anything that helps spread the gospel and explains how things work is beneficial.
I prefer a long, rambling post that explains everything as we go to a short sharp one that is 50% abbreviations and assumes everyone knows why it is "obv" that he had to make that call anyday.
FCHD, thanks, that is the other side of the coin, of course.
I start with the assimption that potential readers have never played the game, so yes, I do explain the basics at length.
I love that game, & want more people to discover the beauties of it. So the best way to do that is to try & explain it properly, in a way that newbies can understand.
A lot of people ask, or complain, to me, "why are there not more PLO PLO8 Tourneys in UKOPS, & on the daily schedule generally?"
The answer is simple, lack of interest/demand. No point saying "sort it out Sky", the answer is to spread the word. You can't blame the site, sometimes it is a 2 way thing, both parties need to do something.
PLO8 DYM liquidity has shot up during the last few months, so it can be done. PLO liquidity (DYM's) remains very very low, but I might try & persuade folks to try those soon, too.
Just to let you know , i'm an avid reader of this thread.
Please keep it up
Cheers
Mick
I'll reply after the Daily Groan/Update later this morning.
Can't promise "brief" though......
For those not aware, MOTHER plays tons of PLO8 DYM's, & is greatly respected by all the players who know what they are doing.
Her pre-flop hand selection is excellent, she understands calling & betting ranges though she may not even realise that. If she re-pots it, she is almost certainly ahead, or in good shape. Folds her SB if her hand is not good, too, happy to give "walks" in the mid stages onwards, which is EXACTLY correct in DYM's. Rarely limps into pots after Level 4.
Never complains when bad-beated, either.
Much respect, MOTHER.
If only the Daughter was half as good, eh?
Tuesday 5th November
Played 22
Won 12
Lost 10
Split....
£2.25 - Played 2, won 1, Lost 1
£5.50 - Played 19, won 11, lost 8
£11.00 - Played 1, won 0, Lost 1
PROFIT/LOSS on Day £6.00
REWARD POINTS = 111
BANKROLL at close of Play = £246.95
REWARD POINTS at close of play = 705
November so far.....
Played 92
Won 53
Lost 39
Win-rate, November, 57.6%
Really interesting & challenging sesion last night.
No matter how hard I tried, I coiuld not get ahead of the win count. Lost the first, won the next, then went W L W L W L L L W W & so on.
Eventually managed 4 wins on the pounce, promptly followed by 3 losses.
Only one x £11-er started all evening, & managed to lose that in hilarious fashion, when my good aces were busted by 9-9-9-3.
I kept trying, concentrating, really trying to get ahead. Was lucky enough to win the last 2 games, which got me the right side of the Win Count by 2, so that was a relief. Think I'd have played on if I lost those two.
A £6 loss on the day felt like a win in the end, to be truthful.
Wrong way to look at it, but if I'd have won that £11er, I'd have ended nicely ahead on the day. As it was, despite the 12-10 count, the loss of the £11er, meant that I did not win enough to cover the Reg Fees. In truth, a win rate yesterday of 54.5% is not good enough, 55% is needed to break even, & the target has to be 60%.
On the bright side.....
Loads of games going, despite the Champions League Football. Had 3 Tables on the go all evening, 4 sometimes, that's as good as it gets in PLO8 DYM's. Sadly, only the one @ £11 though. I register for EVERY £5.50 & up as soon as the Table spawns, & they fill pretty quickly once someone has regged.
On average, a new Table opened every 15 minutes. OK, it's not 'Stars, but for a UK facing independent site, that's astonishing considering it is PLO8.
Earned 111 Reward Points, so now have 705 (£7.05) after 5 days. Won't be able to play tomorrow (doing the Show), or put any volume in over the weekend (things to do, places to go, concrete to mix....), so today will be my last decent session until Sunday or Monday.
Most enjoyable, a bit of uphill & into the wind is never a bad thing, it tests the resolve a treat.
Overall, happy, the £200 is £246, the Octover Reward Points cash arrives tomorrow (£49.97) & has not been included in the numbers, & there is £7 on the board in Reward points for November already.
Bit like my old school reports.
Tony does try, but he needs to improve. Might help if he talked a bit less.
Don't really want to name all the good or solid players, as it may offend those I miss, but yes, Amarie, macacgirl, whizzewky, DavidCassi, macacgirl1, & Alexis are all very much to be respected.
Several of them have played over 10,000 of these games on Sky Poker, one has 38,000 games to his credit!
If I were you, & you want to brush up on, or learn, PLO, I'd start with DYM's.
In DYM's we need two basic skills.
1) An ability to play whatever the format is - NLH, Heads Up, PLO, PLO8 etc.
2) An ability to grasp DYM concept.
Those two things are NOT connected.
Of the two, DYM concept is far & away the most important. John Connor wrote a lovely piece about DYM Strategy on here a while back, try & give that a read. However, you already execute the strategy beautifully in PLO8 DYM's, so that one is easy, job done.
So, now the PLO bit, & we'll assume you are on top of DYM strategy generally.
Simply, one-pair hands, multi-way, rarely win. Even Aces. We want rundowns, gapped rundowns, that sort of thing, or even a big pair with extensions - Say, K-K-Q-J.
PLO is a game of BIG cards & NUT hands. For newbies, take the view that 2nd nut is very often not good enough.
So we are looking for big cards that work together.
If my opponent showed me he had Aces pre-flop, & I'm playing deep enough, I would NEVER fold hands like this....
8-9-10-J
9-10-J-Q
10-J-Q-K
Take a flop, see what comes & if the flop fits, you are favourite against Mr A-A.
With, say, 8-9-10-J, a flop of 6-7-x-x is good, or any flop combo that you "wrap", 7-8-J, that sort of thing, is golden.
Beware of....
Under-Houses
Under-Straights
Paired Boards.
If you want, we can play some budget PLO DYM's for practice purposes, perhaps set an evening aside & play them back to back.
PS - Never, like NEVER NEVER NEVER, try & play PLO & PLO8 at the same time, an accident is inevitable, the two games need completely different mindsets. You'd need to "adjust your thinking" every time you are due to act on PLO, & then again, on PLO8. Do that for 2 or 3 hours, & there'll be a mighty big accident eventually.
Good luck.
Wednesday 6th November
Played 19
Won 15
Lost 4
Split....
£2.25 - Played 0, won 0, Lost 0
£5.50 - Played 16, won 12, lost 4
£11.00 - Played 3, won 3, Lost 0
PROFIT/LOSS on Day £59.00
REWARD POINTS = 105
BANKROLL at close of Play = £305.95
REWARD POINTS at close of play = 810
November so far.....
Played 111
Won 68
Lost 43
Win-rate, November, 61.2%