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Thinking out loud - Sharkscope.
Tikay10
Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 172,800
Morning.
A Post elsewhere this morning piqued my interest, & so I thought I run a thread, & see what you think.
Some of it might get a bit, you know, delicate, but I'm pretty sure that these days we can have this sort of debate here without resorting to personal or improper comments, bad blood, or ill-mannered stuff. It's just something I think it's worth chewing the cud over.
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Comments
Elsewhere today, "chicknMelt" posted this comment after Sharkscope mis-reported a Tourney result......
"....something up with sky's results reporting??....."
Without fear of exaggaration, I bet I get 5 or 6 PM's or e-Mails every week on the same subject.
"Why do Sky not send the correct results to Sharkscope?" sorta thing.
It seems to me, possibly, that many don't understand how Sharkscope actually works.
For starters, Sky Poker do NOT send, or "report", ANY results to Sharkscope, in fact, nor does any other Poker Site. It's a bit of an oddity that people assume otherwise, but it's actually perfectly understandable.
What actually happens is that Sharkscope "scrape" Online Poker Sites for such information & results. I've no idea, nor do I care, why they so often get it wrong, but they do.
They don't pay for this information, nor do they have explicit permission to "lift" it. They just take it - & then sell it!
No way, in a milion years will Sky Poker change any reporting systems to accommodate Sharkscope, why should they? It's not as if Sharkscope PAY for the info. They "lift" it, then sell it.
In the process, they also make available information to all & sundry about you, me, & everyone else, UNLESS we choose to opt out.
That seems bang wrong to me. Surely it should be that we should have to opt IN before they have the "right" to use our private information? They are SELLING info about you & me. I'm not sure that sits well with me, personally.
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We also see a lot of players getting upset because, when a bit of a ruck goes off in the chat box after, say, a "bad" call, people use Sharkscope Stats to abuse others.
Sharkscope's T & C explicity forbid this, on pain of censure, but I've never seen any demonstrating that they exercise that right.
Do you think it's right that they put info out there, especially as to players who don't play too successfully, such that others can use it to abuse them?
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You wouldn't want your bank to publish your bank statements online would you?
Edit*
Isn't there a copyright or data protection issue here, with SS "lifting" data without permission and selling it on?
Shouldn't the "opt-in / opt-out" choice be made on here rather than on SS?
Some poker sites have challenged Sharkscope's "rights" to do this recently.
One site that has done better than most recently is 888, & I believe they refused Sharkscope permission to report 888 Tourney results UNLESS the player first opts in.
I gather Full Tilt have done something similar recently, too.
This is all part of the realisation that Online Poker needs to look after players better, make the playing field more level, or as level as possible.
As you know, & I believe it is generally approved of by the majority of players on Sky Poker, third party software & "aids" are NOT permitted here, never have been, & never will be. Sky Poker think is it bad for the players, & the site. Unless I misread the Sky Poker jungle drums, that stance ain't ever going to change. But that's not the point here.
The point is, what do people think about the whole logic of Sharkscope being able to lift this info about you & me & everyone else, without our permission, & then go publish it for gain?
I actually think it is possible to stop it happening, & I can't imagine Sky Poker would suffer much, if at all, as a result.
And your views would be........?
Took me 3 long Posts to say what you said in a few lines.
But you were forced to opt OUT, surely that's back to front. Far more effective would be that we had to opt IN?
PS
If i want to see how i'm doing i just look at my balance at the top of the page and if its more than i deposited 2 years ago i'm happy :-))
I think the strangeness of it is from the fact that what it seems to be doing is in direct contrast to contract law.
In contract law it is clearly stated that lack of refusal does not mean acceptance. So they are giving out the information on people who have not agreed for this to happen, and the only way to stop it is to tell them no.
That being said i think the worst thing about sharkscope is the fact of peoples perception of it. They seem to believe that everything there is the gospel truth. Have seen it so many times on the cash tables where after a dubious play at the table someone starts spouting how bad someone is and using the sharkscope stats as proof of it.
The default is back to front, imo.
I might get appraisals of how I do my job, here at Sky Poker, from the Suits, but that's private, between them & me, not for putting in the domain.
How much you, or I, or anyone else gets paid is private, too. Why would it not be?
I might be getting this round my neck, but it just seems wrong to me.
Sure it can be used to abuse players in chat etc, but the type of people that do that are te type of people that will just abuse them verbally in some other way if that info wasn't available.
PS - You CAN hide it, as some other Online sites already have stopped Sharkscope doing so unless the player chooses to opt in, or that is as I understand it.
"It's OK as long as people know when they sign up they are being tracked".
But they don't. Do you think a poker newbie KNOWS that? There is nothing in Sky Poker's T & C's which says "another site may publish your Sky Poker results unless you specifically opt out". Sky poker do not knowingly allow it, it just happens.
For the record, yeah, I like Sharkscope, too, but that's hardly the point.
Sounds ominous, do you think sky will take action to prevent SS publishing results in the near future?
As a skope-o-holic, for selfish reasons I wouldn't like this to happen but it can only be a good thing for poker.
Skope will increase a winning players edge, and poker sites don't want that to happen?
Doubt it will, but I hope this post doesn't influence the decision
2) Agreed, it has to be, on balance, a good thing for poker.
It's good to see that several of us, me included, DO like using Sharkscope, & readily admit it, but we can still accept that it is not necessarily a good thing. That's exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping for.
It is not, if I understand it correctly - perhaps the Suits will correct me - with or without Sky Poker's "blessing", but I do know there is no contact or contract, & Sky Poker, or any other online poker site, do nothing to assist Sharkscope, & do not "supply" them, as such, with info directly or intentionally.
It just happens.
Quite an interesting do, really.
I doubt they'd ever block it completely, but making it "opt in" instead of "opt out" must be a valid consideration. So the player has the choice. Many don't even know Sharkscope exists, of course, so opting out is a bit difficult.