I fully understand why people have concerns over Sharkscope and may wish to opt out.
But I quite like sharkscope, I was on a FT a couple of days ago and 5 handed decided to sharkscope the other 4 opponents 5 handed, which was quite helpful. Unfortunately one of the players was minus £1000's playing low stake games, which is ashame, but I felt I just had to find the right spot against this opponent which I did and managed to get most of his chips. I don't use it often but definatly find it helpful at FT's, just to get a better understanding of how certain people play, are they winning or losing players.
I would also say SC was instrumental in helping me improve at MTT's, I was winning or ftabling infrequently, I think I was min cashing a lot, so knew I was doing something wrong, that fundamentally I was making a lot of mistakes, it was at that point I decided I would give it a go and try and improve my mtt game. Sharkscope was a wake up call to me to put a bit of effort and time in to try and improve my game.
Personally I really like sharkscope, but understand why people may feel differently, and there will be many reasons for it.
It has been well documented that the implementation of scraping and allowing 3rd party software (HUD.s/trackers) was a major mistake by the big online poker sites.
They have created this beast when all along they should have kept it at a level playing field.
I read somewhere recently the reason for the big sites to allow HUD's etc.. was a bad one and are only now realising they are stuck in a spot where they can't ban them cause they would lose customers. But also because they are allowed, they in turn are losing customers. Essentially the poker sites did not intially ban HUD's etc.. when they found out they were being used they just let everyone carry on using them. They should have banned them from the start, now it's snowballed into this horrible state of online poker.
all a bit dumb dumb
If all the poker sites in the world got toether and collectively banned HUD's etc.. then it would not be a problem. You will alwasy get one site not banning them to get all the clients. This is the main reason why they never banned HUD's in the first place, because of the fear of losing players in bulk to the rivals.
This is why you must applaud Sky and the like for their stance on 3rd party software and for me it's one of the main reason I play here.
Also fwiw Sharkscope is like the worse invention for online poker in so many ways. It's a shame far too many players are too short sighted to see it. Plus it's a joke site.
Good morning all My ss says i am down £1200, i have been playing for over 2 years now , so i am losing about £11.52 per week . I have been verbally abused by some small minded people for been a losing player , When i have ss them a lot of the time they have opted out. Which reminds me of the old saying smashing up your neighbours furniture doesnt make yours any better. Ihave no problem with people knowing i am a losing player so i choose not to opt out. does ss record sky poker rewards payments, if not i earn between £10 to £15 per month , so my losses are under a grand not bad considering i have allowed my self £40 per week budget. All the best Rainman397. PS. DEEPSTACK @2.20PM FOR £2.20 TIKAY ALREADY REGISTERED 4 TOURNAMENT.
Hi Tikay I find sharkscope quite useful for tracking my results and yes I have used it to look at some other players all available info should be used if all can see it. The big problem I have with it is it can give a false impression on mtt results if like myself you play a lot of sats and qualify for bigger tourneys then you could end up showing a big loss when this isn't the case eg you sat into the big roller for 5 quid and don't cash you have lost a fiver sharkscope shows you have lost 110 quid
When I was a relative newbie to this great game we adore I was sat playing in a tournament on Sky Poker and one of the players started reeling off the profit and loss of every player on the table having a dig at a couple of them who had lost quite a lot of money. I was fuming at the time how could they do this I actually contacted customer care here to complain to be told they could not do anything about this. I seriously considered stopping playing I was that mad, I wasn't one of those losing by the way at that time. It was after this I found out about SS and that it was available on virtually all the main poker sites. I have visited the site but only read the terms and conditions faQs etc I have never used it to scope myself or anyone else for that matter even with the 5 free scopes per day you can use. At this point in time personally I feel it would be a backwards step for Sky to take any action to prevent the results being scraped as you put it (whatever that is lol) without other sites doing the same thing. You would probably just see many of the serious tournament and SAG grinders take their business elsewhere. However if as you say Tikay that other sites are moving away from allowing this scraping or taking other steps to get it stopped then I would love to see it happen here also.
Hi Tikay I find sharkscope quite useful for tracking my results and yes I have used it to look at some other players all available info should be used if all can see it. The big problem I have with it is it can give a false impression on mtt results if like myself you play a lot of sats and qualify for bigger tourneys then you could end up showing a big loss when this isn't the case eg you sat into the big roller for 5 quid and don't cash you have lost a fiver sharkscope shows you have lost 110 quid Posted by gixxerk4
But when you won the seat it shows you cashed in a £5 MTT for £110 so it shows £105 profit there, then £110 loss when you bust (so -£5 altogether) so it balances out correctly.
Good morning all My ss says i am down £1200, i have been playing for over 2 years now , so i am losing about £11.52 per week . I have been verbally abused by some small minded people for been a losing player , When i have ss them a lot of the time they have opted out. Which reminds me of the old saying smashing up your neighbours furniture doesnt make yours any better. Ihave no problem with people knowing i am a losing player so i choose not to opt out. does ss record sky poker rewards payments, if not i earn between £10 to £15 per month , so my losses are under a grand not bad considering i have allowed my self £40 per week budget. All the best Rainman397. PS. DEEPSTACK @2.20PM FOR £2.20 TIKAY ALREADY REGISTERED 4 TOURNAMENT. Posted by rainman397
ill join you rainman! got some paperwork to do for a few hours so can play!
Interesting thread. I fully understand why people have concerns over Sharkscope and may wish to opt out. But I quite like sharkscope, I was on a FT a couple of days ago and 5 handed decided to sharkscope the other 4 opponents 5 handed, which was quite helpful. Unfortunately one of the players was minus £1000's playing low stake games, which is ashame, but I felt I just had to find the right spot against this opponent which I did and managed to get most of his chips. I don't use it often but definatly find it helpful at FT's, just to get a better understanding of how certain people play, are they winning or losing players. I would also say SC was instrumental in helping me improve at MTT's, I was winning or ftabling infrequently, I think I was min cashing a lot, so knew I was doing something wrong, that fundamentally I was making a lot of mistakes, it was at that point I decided I would give it a go and try and improve my mtt game. Sharkscope was a wake up call to me to put a bit of effort and time in to try and improve my game. Personally I really like sharkscope, but understand why people may feel differently, and there will be many reasons for it. Posted by LARSON7
Sorry to single you out but this is like the reason it's so bad for online poker. The idea of a level playing field is just not true with online poker, hence why it's in decline.
If your using SS, HUD's other tracking software it's basically giving you an unfair advantage.
You may say but, it's available to everyone - that doesn't make it right does it.
How far do we take the use of computer software. If I program a computer program to play against you online is that fair ? I mean anyone can do it right !
Why did the poker sites not ban tracking software/HUD's when they first knew about them being used ? Surely this was cheating at the time ? Why did they let it continue ? MONEY - ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
MONEY! The same reason you want to use SS and get an unfair advantage and win MONEY.
Good morning all My ss says i am down £1200, i have been playing for over 2 years now , so i am losing about £11.52 per week . I have been verbally abused by some small minded people for been a losing player , When i have ss them a lot of the time they have opted out. Which reminds me of the old saying smashing up your neighbours furniture doesnt make yours any better. Ihave no problem with people knowing i am a losing player so i choose not to opt out. does ss record sky poker rewards payments, if not i earn between £10 to £15 per month , so my losses are under a grand not bad considering i have allowed my self £40 per week budget. All the best Rainman397. PS. DEEPSTACK @2.20PM FOR £2.20 TIKAY ALREADY REGISTERED 4 TOURNAMENT. Posted by rainman397
Hey rainman!
That's pretty terrible people would talk like that and is totally unacceptable.
Whether it was online or in real life. Unfortunatly some people will act different on here, to how they would in person.
It's cool you have a budget for pokers and enjoy playing recreationally.
I would say, sometimes, we can make small tweaks to our game to help improve overall. A few months ago my sharkscope was minus £300, I made a few posts on here looking at ways to improve my game, and I've done ok over the last few months. It would just a matter of changing really small things.
The community on here is fantastic, especially the poker clinic, it's really good for posting hand histories and getting analysis from players who play all different levels.
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope. : Sorry to single you out but this is like the reason it's so bad for online poker. The idea of a level playing field is just not true with online poker, hence why it's in decline. If your using SS, HUD's other tracking software it's basically giving you an unfair advantage. You may say but, it's available to everyone - that doesn't make it right does it. How far do we take the use of computer software. If I program a computer program to play against you online is that fair ? I mean anyone can do it right ! Why did the poker sites not ban tracking software/HUD's when they first knew about them being used ? Surely this was cheating at the time ? Why did they let it continue ? MONEY - ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! MONEY! The same reason you want to use SS and get an unfair advantage and win MONEY. Poker is corrupt from it's core! Posted by rancid
I would probably say I disagree with this as all it tells you is if someone is a "winning" or "losing" player.
The biggest part is how they play and are playing at the time on the table. SS just puts there play in a context, it does not tell you how they play.
It is available to everyone, things like HUD's aren't. I would say they are quite different. HUD give detailed infoon how someone players and their tendencies.
Where as SS is generic information on results. But I can understand fully why people would dislike sharkscope and feel it could give an unfair advantage.
Thank you for reply. Ienjoy playing poker on sky and 99% of players are very friendly so a few idiots dont put me off. I normally only play low level deepstack tournaments and low level heads up to try and improve my game. If you are available would yoube able to play the deepstack @ 2.20pm, as you are a winning player i think playing better players than me would improve my game. Tikay is already registered. All the best Rainman397 In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope.:
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope. : Hey rainman! That's pretty terrible people would talk like that and is totally unacceptable. Whether it was online or in real life. Unfortunatly some people will act different on here, to how they would in person. It's cool you have a budget for pokers and enjoy playing recreationally. I would say, sometimes, we can make small tweaks to our game to help improve overall. A few months ago my sharkscope was minus £300, I made a few posts on here looking at ways to improve my game, and I've done ok over the last few months. It would just a matter of changing really small things. The community on here is fantastic, especially the poker clinic, it's really good for posting hand histories and getting analysis from players who play all different levels. Good luck, and continue to enjoy the game. Posted by LARSON7
This thread really is a credit to this Community, quite a contentious isue, & yet everybody is making their points in a fair manner, & seeing both sides of it. No debate is worthwhile, or will progress, unless we see both sides.
We ought to have more of these "awkward" debates in this spirit.
This thread really is a credit to this Community, quite a contentious isue, & yet everybody is making their points in a fair manner, & seeing both sides of it. We ought to have more of these "awkward" debates in this spirit. Posted by Tikay10
Hmmmm, surely the question here is as Chickenmelt states. Is it ethical or not? We live in an age where personal information is bought and sold by a vast amount of different sources. Whilst Sky Poker may not,Sky itself does. Buy something,log onto something,inquire about something. It all gets tracked somewhere. And don,t get me started on any of the so called social networking sights. Governments used to spend millions trying to find out what the populace was thinking and doing. Now all they have to do is look on facebook!
When i signed up a few weeks ago i knew that i was hopeless and that it was going to be quite painful at times and was going to cost me a few bob to improve. I certainly don,t need sharkscope to tell me that i,m cr-p and anyone who sits at a table with me will soon suss it out.Which i would have thought is what good players do. So if good players can tell when a "fish" sits down what do they need sharkscope for? Or is it a tool only useful to the players towards the top of the tree to give them the edge against players around them. Bit like a sliderule really(nice to look at but you,ve got to know how to use it!)
Sorry about the digression. My feeling is that unless you opt in then your info stays within Skys domain.
Just remember, when the machines rise up against us one of us is going to have to travel back in time to save the world!
Interesting thread. I fully understand why people have concerns over Sharkscope and may wish to opt out. But I quite like sharkscope, I was on a FT a couple of days ago and 5 handed decided to sharkscope the other 4 opponents 5 handed, which was quite helpful. Unfortunately one of the players was minus £1000's playing low stake games, which is ashame, but I felt I just had to find the right spot against this opponent which I did and managed to get most of his chips. I don't use it often but definatly find it helpful at FT's, just to get a better understanding of how certain people play, are they winning or losing players. I would also say SC was instrumental in helping me improve at MTT's, I was winning or ftabling infrequently, I think I was min cashing a lot, so knew I was doing something wrong, that fundamentally I was making a lot of mistakes, it was at that point I decided I would give it a go and try and improve my mtt game. Sharkscope was a wake up call to me to put a bit of effort and time in to try and improve my game. Personally I really like sharkscope, but understand why people may feel differently, and there will be many reasons for it. Posted by LARSON7
Ahh got a feeling........;)
Now then - and I'm defo not picking on you, or isolating you, but you said something there which as at the heart of it.
You 'scoped your Final Table, & it was "helpful". (To you....). Well we've all done that, or many of us have, & you've done nothing wrong.
Now move it up a level.
Have you gained an advantage over others by doing so? You suggested it was "helpful", so presumably, yes?
Sharkscope is not available to everyone, or more correctly, some folks can't afford, or don't wish, to subscribe.
Now turn it upside down. You can't afford, or don't want, to use Sharkscope, but your opponents do. Is that fair & proper, & would you feel OK about it?
Just putting it out there, not having a go at you in any way.
It seems to me to be similar to the "HUD's or not" debate really.
I "scoped" myself a few months ago, it told me I was a losing player when I know by the state of my balance I'm not (even allowing for the balance being boosted by cash for points). So I blocked myself, so others don't see misleading information about me.
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope. : Ahh got a feeling........;) Now then - and I'm fefo not picking on you, or isolating you, but you said something there which as at the heart of it. You 'scoped your Final Table, & it was "helpful". (To you....). Well we've all done that, or many of us have, & you've done nothing wrong. Now move it up a level. Have you gained an advantage over others by doing so? You suggested it was "helpful", so presumably, yes? Sharkscope is not available to everyone, or more correctly, some folks can't afford, or don't wish, to subscribe. Now turn it upside down. You can't afford, or don't want, to use Sharkscope, but your opponents do. Is that fair & proper, & would you feel OK about it? Just putting it out there, not having a go at you in any way. It seems to me to be similar to the "HUD's or not" debate really. Posted by Tikay10
everyone gets 5 free searches a day...and another 5 on your phone (when not on wifi - different IP).
I use it in the same way sometimes, and it definately is helpful, but I wouldnt say that it gives you the same sort of edge as a HUD does (or unlock the same sort of edge as a HUD does - you have to know how to use the stats etc to gain an edge)
HUD - tracks every move a player makes, and if you know what stats are "correct" or what one stat should be when compared to another stat you can use this information to find leaks in your opponents game without having to watch them play properly. It can basically tell you how to play against a certain person if you know how to us the information correctly.
SS - tells you how winning a player is. You might want to target a player depending on how much they have won or lost, but how you do that is ompletely up to your on interpretation of how they play.
...not quite in the same league as each other, but still an advantage i guess. non subscribers can still get this advantage, but only for alimited number of searches.
We also see a lot of players getting upset because, when a bit of a ruck goes off in the chat box after, say, a "bad" call, people use Sharkscope Stats to abuse others. Sharkscope's T & C explicity forbid this, on pain of censure, but I've never seen any demonstrating that they exercise that right. Do you think it's right that they put info out there, especially as to players who don't play too successfully, such that others can use it to abuse them? More..... Posted by Tikay10
plenty of regs love to do this, I personally opted out of sharkscope, but u cant win coz then they abuse u about that
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope. : I would probably say I disagree with this as all it tells you is if someone is a "winning" or "losing" player. The biggest part is how they play and are playing at the time on the table. SS just puts there play in a context, it does not tell you how they play. It is available to everyone, things like HUD's aren't. I would say they are quite different. HUD give detailed infoon how someone players and their tendencies. Where as SS is generic information on results. But I can understand fully why people would dislike sharkscope and feel it could give an unfair advantage. Posted by LARSON7
Your kinda contridicting yourself, you use SS to gain information on a player. This is the reason your using it. So it it gives back stats of a massive winner you can make assumption about there play, likewise if someone is a big loser.
Why did you feel the need to look on SS, to gain an advantage.
Quite honestly it's normal behaviour. If a friend is on a live FT table you may tell them players to watch out for or you may give them an heads up.
But the fact that these are available is not a good thing.
How would you like if they had all the data regarding your cash games. Do you think this should be make common knowledge. Do you think it would be good for online cash poker is this would be made available.
Sites must publish results somehwere so it can be mined, obviously sites do not publish cash game results.
The thing is why not and what is the differance.
Why does it have to be public knowledge regarding tournamnet placing but cash games do not get published.
I would hazard a guess and say the sites want to protect customers and maybe some data laws regarding player accounts.
But anyway, could you imagine if sites released cash game results!
Comments
I fully understand why people have concerns over Sharkscope and may wish to opt out.
But I quite like sharkscope, I was on a FT a couple of days ago and 5 handed decided to sharkscope the other 4 opponents 5 handed, which was quite helpful. Unfortunately one of the players was minus £1000's playing low stake games, which is ashame, but I felt I just had to find the right spot against this opponent which I did and managed to get most of his chips. I don't use it often but definatly find it helpful at FT's, just to get a better understanding of how certain people play, are they winning or losing players.
I would also say SC was instrumental in helping me improve at MTT's, I was winning or ftabling infrequently, I think I was min cashing a lot, so knew I was doing something wrong, that fundamentally I was making a lot of mistakes, it was at that point I decided I would give it a go and try and improve my mtt game. Sharkscope was a wake up call to me to put a bit of effort and time in to try and improve my game.
Personally I really like sharkscope, but understand why people may feel differently, and there will be many reasons for it.
They have created this beast when all along they should have kept it at a level playing field.
I read somewhere recently the reason for the big sites to allow HUD's etc.. was a bad one and are only now realising they are stuck in a spot where they can't ban them cause they would lose customers. But also because they are allowed, they in turn are losing customers. Essentially the poker sites did not intially ban HUD's etc.. when they found out they were being used they just let everyone carry on using them. They should have banned them from the start, now it's snowballed into this horrible state of online poker.
all a bit dumb dumb
If all the poker sites in the world got toether and collectively banned HUD's etc.. then it would not be a problem.
You will alwasy get one site not banning them to get all the clients.
This is the main reason why they never banned HUD's in the first place, because of the fear of losing players in bulk to the rivals.
This is why you must applaud Sky and the like for their stance on 3rd party software and for me it's one of the main reason I play here.
Also fwiw Sharkscope is like the worse invention for online poker in so many ways.
It's a shame far too many players are too short sighted to see it.
Plus it's a joke site.
My ss says i am down £1200, i have been playing for over 2 years now , so i am losing about £11.52 per week .
I have been verbally abused by some small minded people for been a losing player ,
When i have ss them a lot of the time they have opted out.
Which reminds me of the old saying smashing up your neighbours furniture doesnt make yours any better.
Ihave no problem with people knowing i am a losing player so i choose not to opt out.
does ss record sky poker rewards payments, if not i earn between £10 to £15 per month , so my losses are under a grand not bad considering i have allowed my self £40 per week budget.
All the best Rainman397.
PS. DEEPSTACK @2.20PM FOR £2.20 TIKAY ALREADY REGISTERED 4 TOURNAMENT.
Hi Tikay
I find sharkscope quite useful for tracking my results and yes I have used it to look at some other players all available info should be used if all can see it.
The big problem I have with it is it can give a false impression on mtt results if like myself you play a lot of sats
and qualify for bigger tourneys then you could end up showing a big loss when this isn't the case eg you sat into the big roller for 5 quid and don't cash you have lost a fiver sharkscope shows you have lost 110 quid
I was fuming at the time how could they do this I actually contacted customer care here to complain to be told they could not do anything about this. I seriously considered stopping playing I was that mad, I wasn't one of those losing by the way at that time.
It was after this I found out about SS and that it was available on virtually all the main poker sites. I have visited the site but only read the terms and conditions faQs etc I have never used it to scope myself or anyone else for that matter even with the 5 free scopes per day you can use.
At this point in time personally I feel it would be a backwards step for Sky to take any action to prevent the results being scraped as you put it (whatever that is lol) without other sites doing the same thing. You would probably just see many of the serious tournament and SAG grinders take their business elsewhere. However if as you say Tikay that other sites are moving away from allowing this scraping or taking other steps to get it stopped then I would love to see it happen here also.
ill join you rainman! got some paperwork to do for a few hours so can play!
Sorry to single you out but this is like the reason it's so bad for online poker.
The idea of a level playing field is just not true with online poker, hence why it's in decline.
If your using SS, HUD's other tracking software it's basically giving you an unfair advantage.
You may say but, it's available to everyone - that doesn't make it right does it.
How far do we take the use of computer software.
If I program a computer program to play against you online is that fair ?
I mean anyone can do it right !
Why did the poker sites not ban tracking software/HUD's when they first knew about them being used ?
Surely this was cheating at the time ? Why did they let it continue ? MONEY - ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
MONEY! The same reason you want to use SS and get an unfair advantage and win MONEY.
Poker is corrupt from it's core!
All the best
Rainman397 In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope.:
That's pretty terrible people would talk like that and is totally unacceptable.
Whether it was online or in real life. Unfortunatly some people will act different on here, to how they would in person.
It's cool you have a budget for pokers and enjoy playing recreationally.
I would say, sometimes, we can make small tweaks to our game to help improve overall. A few months ago my sharkscope was minus £300, I made a few posts on here looking at ways to improve my game, and I've done ok over the last few months. It would just a matter of changing really small things.
The community on here is fantastic, especially the poker clinic, it's really good for posting hand histories and getting analysis from players who play all different levels.
Good luck, and continue to enjoy the game.
The biggest part is how they play and are playing at the time on the table. SS just puts there play in a context, it does not tell you how they play.
It is available to everyone, things like HUD's aren't. I would say they are quite different. HUD give detailed infoon how someone players and their tendencies.
Where as SS is generic information on results. But I can understand fully why people would dislike sharkscope and feel it could give an unfair advantage.
Ienjoy playing poker on sky and 99% of players are very friendly so a few idiots dont put me off.
I normally only play low level deepstack tournaments and low level heads up to try and improve my game.
If you are available would yoube able to play the deepstack @ 2.20pm, as you are a winning player i think playing better players than me would improve my game.
Tikay is already registered.
All the best
Rainman397
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope.:
This thread really is a credit to this Community, quite a contentious isue, & yet everybody is making their points in a fair manner, & seeing both sides of it. No debate is worthwhile, or will progress, unless we see both sides.
We ought to have more of these "awkward" debates in this spirit.
Ahh got a feeling........;)
Now then - and I'm defo not picking on you, or isolating you, but you said something there which as at the heart of it.
You 'scoped your Final Table, & it was "helpful". (To you....). Well we've all done that, or many of us have, & you've done nothing wrong.
Now move it up a level.
Have you gained an advantage over others by doing so? You suggested it was "helpful", so presumably, yes?
Sharkscope is not available to everyone, or more correctly, some folks can't afford, or don't wish, to subscribe.
Now turn it upside down. You can't afford, or don't want, to use Sharkscope, but your opponents do. Is that fair & proper, & would you feel OK about it?
Just putting it out there, not having a go at you in any way.
It seems to me to be similar to the "HUD's or not" debate really.
So it it gives back stats of a massive winner you can make assumption about there play, likewise if someone is a big loser.
Why did you feel the need to look on SS, to gain an advantage.
Quite honestly it's normal behaviour. If a friend is on a live FT table you may tell them players to watch out for or you may give them an heads up.
But the fact that these are available is not a good thing.
How would you like if they had all the data regarding your cash games. Do you think this should be make common knowledge. Do you think it would be good for online cash poker is this would be made available.
Sites must publish results somehwere so it can be mined, obviously sites do not publish cash game results.
The thing is why not and what is the differance.
Why does it have to be public knowledge regarding tournamnet placing but cash games do not get published.
I would hazard a guess and say the sites want to protect customers and maybe some data laws regarding player accounts.
But anyway, could you imagine if sites released cash game results!
OMG