Does the Data protection Act allow Sharkscope to hold information on me regard Sky Poker stats without my permission . Posted by goldon
SkyPoker will have to comply with the Data Protection Act as they have access to your personal data, i.e. information that is identifiable as you. They will have to process that information fairly and lawfully and keep it safe and secure.
When joining you give them access to your name. address, contact details, date of birth and payment details.
You will consent to their Terms and Conditions and are aware that your alias results are publically available in the lobbies if you enter a SNG or MTT.
They also have a Privacy Notice (link at bottom left) which is requirement of the DPA.
So this information (your alias and tournament results) is published on the site with your consent.
Sharkscope as far as I am aware are not in breach of the DPA as they take publically available information identifiable only via a poker alias.
I actually like some of aussies tables and check them most days. This has not been a problem.last year i even asked aussie to do a hero card for me it was fun. This came a problem when the site became a business with a direct link to the site. But as tikay said its ok. As its sky pokers forum it is there choice. Agree with lambert some of the pricing did look dodgy. Posted by stuarty117
Well it's not quite as black & white as you suggest. I saw it as a Community thing, free to use in it's basic form, if it were a purely subscription thing, that'd be another matter.
We'd probably not object to Sharkscope Links were it not for the fact that all manner of non-compliant (to Sky Poker) advertising is on that site. I'm not talking on non-stop Sharkscope spamming, I'm thinking of players who post their Sharkscope graphs & the like, which seems fine to me.
I don't see any of this quite as black & white as some, there are always degrees of right & wrong, & I'm simply keen to help make this Forum user & player friendly for as many as possible. If I need to make some tough decisions, I will.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden : SkyPoker will have to comply with the Data Protection Act as they have access to your personal data, i.e. information that is identifiable as you. They will have to process that information fairly and lawfully and keep it safe and secure. When joining you give them access to your name. address, contact details, date of birth and payment details. You will consent to their Terms and Conditions and are aware that your alias results are publically available in the lobbies if you enter a SNG or MTT. They also have a Privacy Notice (link at bottom left) which is requirement of the DPA. So this information (your alias and tournament results) is published on the site with your consent. Sharkscope as far as I am aware are not in breach of the DPA as they take publically available information identifiable only via a poker alias. You can opt out of Sharkscope if you wish. Posted by Phantom66
ThIs.
"Alias" is the key.
They don't publish personal information, only that which is in the domain.
By way of comparison, a friend runs a website that must take at least as much time as the one in question here, but as it is first and foremost 'for the good of the community it serves' (it is non-poker related) it is wholly free with an opportunity for regular or grateful users to 'make a donation' - cognisant of the fact that it still takes time and involves cost of hosting etc and those that benefit from the site may want to help contribute to it's continuing existence and regular updates.
Dare I suggest that the site in question here could consider a similar approach to cover costs? If it truly is useful to poker players that are profiting from the site, a decent amount of donations should be forthcoming at a price deemed acceptable to the user (also avoiding any false advertising issues as noted elsewhere in this thread).
. To compare it to hand history databases or HUDs shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of both what a hud is and can and can't do. It's a bizarre comparison to make to be honest. Posted by TeddyBloat
This post nails it a hud is completely different and is in no way related at all to a service such as sharkscope or aussiescope. People can make there own mind up wheather or not they like the service thats fine but to compare it to a hud is wrong.
Apologies for my apparently incorrect comparison. As I use neither HUDS nor sharkscope nor Aussiescope I'm not fully au fait with their differences. All I meant to say is that huds are banned. But other databases of players activities which have been claimed to expose playing styles are allowed. What are the criteria that sky use to say type a data is banned but type b data can be freely marketed on the forum?
PS I've updated the thread title but not the opening post so as not to confuse anyone reading through the thread
Apologies for my apparently incorrect comparison. As I use neither HUDS nor sharkscope nor Aussiescope I'm not fully au fait with their differences. All I meant to say is that huds are banned. But other databases of players activities which have been claimed to expose playing styles are allowed. What are the criteria that sky use to say type a data is banned but type b data can be freely marketed on the forum? PS I've updated the thread title but not the opening post so as not to confuse anyone reading through the thread Posted by GELDY
That whole post is rather awkward to answer, nothing is black & white, so I'll reply in parts.
The "other databases" which you mention - let's call them Sharkscope & RobScope - do not, in my opinion, or that of Sky Poker, "expose playing styles", though I know Rob suggests otherwise. They show results, not playing styles. We can only infer from that sort of data certain things - primarily what format they play (NLH, PLO, MTT's, SNG's), what buy-in level, & how much profit or loss a player makes (excluding cash games). Others may disagree, but that's the line. Inferring "playing style" from that is tenuous, we simply get to know what sort of games they play, & whether they win or lose.
As it happens, Sky Poker are not madly keen on having Sharkscope extract that information, pay nothing for it, & sell it on, but short of a court battle, it's hard to stop. They WOULD stop it if it worked like a HUD, or any similar Third Party Software which helps players IN HAND & IN GAME, but it does not. It's a completely different animal to a HUD.
Tbh don't see why there's much opposition to Aussie's leagues. It's essentially just a different version of SharkScope, but ran by a guy who cares about Sky Poker. I'm sure you can opt out if you wish just as you can with SS. Aussie also does free things like looking at top 100 'best players' that you can view for free and keeps the tally of the charity competition. Imo so what if he charges money to access certain elements, he puts in the effort to collate date, run site, etc so why shouldnt he benefit if people are willing to buy it. FWIW I wouldn't sign up as I can get all the info I need on SS which I have running subscription for
Apologies for my apparently incorrect comparison. As I use neither HUDS nor sharkscope nor Aussiescope I'm not fully au fait with their differences. All I meant to say is that huds are banned. But other databases of players activities which have been claimed to expose playing styles are allowed. What are the criteria that sky use to say type a data is banned but type b data can be freely marketed on the forum? PS I've updated the thread title but not the opening post so as not to confuse anyone reading through the thread Posted by GELDY
You seem to have blended two different points there.
"Type A data & Type B Data" I've covered in my previous post. HUD's & a Results Database are not even remotely similar.
Then we get to what seems to be the gist of the matter.....
"......can be freely marketed on the forum"
Only Sky Poker, nothing else, can be "freely marketed on the Forum".
I've stated this earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat.
I was given responsibility for the Forum, & it's Moderation, some time ago, having made a bit of a nuisance of myself Upstairs with a very strong view that The Business was closing too many threads. We have not closed any threads since, with the exception of a FIRST TIME POSTER who was advertising something. And yet that was cited yesterday as evidence that Aussie should not be allowed to promote his Site. I think there's a world of difference between the two cases. But what do we want? Inflexible, one size fits all? That's not always fair. Or flexible, & get "one rule for the rich, another for the poor" stated, as it was last week in another matter.
It's not that easy, or simple.
We are trying to make this Forum a better place, more positivity, less negativity, but it's awfully difficult.
I do agree that if Rob were charging for everything, that's a different matter, & if it were a "business", so is that. I saw it - at the time - as more of a community service, & a well intended one.
Anyway, I'll have to have a think, & try & do the right thing, make the right decisions.
I need to press on now, I have an Update to get on with, & 2 articles to write before 8am in the morning.
For the record, again repeated, these are my decisions, not Sky Poker's, so I won't be hiding behind them, & I'll try to do the right thing.
I'm a bit baffled by it all to be honest, which I'll try & explain better tomorrow (later today....).
By way of comparison, a friend runs a website that must take at least as much time as the one in question here, but as it is first and foremost 'for the good of the community it serves' (it is non-poker related) it is wholly free with an opportunity for regular or grateful users to 'make a donation' - cognisant of the fact that it still takes time and involves cost of hosting etc and those that benefit from the site may want to help contribute to it's continuing existence and regular updates.
I'm much the same with my website. It's football related and I'm not going to plug it on here but it is basically 30 years of effort usually at least an hour a day but I wouldn't dream of asking for money for it. In fact I have been approached by marketers on more than one occasion wanting to take it over and make money off it but have always declined.
.It's not that much different to sharkscope in that he is merely collating results. He also adds some fun points and categories, and the hero card element is pretty cool. It's all publically available information, he puts a lot of work into producing the stats. Posted by TeddyBloat
thank you ted, i appreciate your kind words.
they are very much the same thing, true. sharkscope looks at everything whereas my work is focussed on the major tournaments alone. my view is that to assess achievement in major tournaments (excluding smaller field, smaller buy-in tournaments) it is better to only use data from major tournaments.
then, because of this approach, it is then possible to produce far more meaningful comparisons between players. leagues too. if you are playing a major tournament you will want to know how good your opponent is in this standard of game. how he/she compares to you. you could be mislead if your opponents results are derived from a less focussed range of games types. it's having a dedicated and calibrated yardstick.
.I know Aussie claims you can draw inferences about playing style from some of the cards he produces, and he made a really ill-advised foray into trying to do so publically on the forum, but honestly it shouldn't bother players. He was making all this info available freely upon request until recently and few people worried about the ethics. Posted by TeddyBloat
i acknowledge that you have a fine ability to interpret analysis and reach sound conclusions more often than most. i have seen your posts elsewhere. i can only interpret figures simplistically in comparison. all the info i have i have been doing for years. it was just over a year ago i choose to share this with others. if useful, great. i not, great too.
.I've been very critical of the claims aussie09 has made about his dataset and in particular his claims of effectiveness in terms of deducting playing style. Posted by TeddyBloat
I just like to know what is the best thing to do if someone shoves, in or out of position. Or indeed whether I should. I consider me to be an average player who applies my averageness in the most beneficially way, at the most advantageous time. i know hundreds, if not thousands, who are better players than me, but I have achieved quite a lot here (excuse me for this brag, 6 hoodies, 3 Team Sky Poker places, over 20 major tournament wins, UKPCs and Punta Cana) despite being of very average ability.
.I have no dog in the fight. To compare it to hand history databases or HUDs shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of both what a hud is and can and can't do, and also of what Aussies service is and its usefulness at the tables. It's a bizarre comparison to make to be honest. I think the work he puts into his site has value and that he is entitled to charge a small fee for what is a unique and very popular and fun service. Posted by TeddyBloat
I mean ithe info is useful for sure. aside from the geek-factor -which I lov, and the inventiveness of what he has created in hero cards - which I admire, his cards will have a similar 'in game' usefulness as a sharkscope sub. Personally, though I'd be grateful that there is a fun service like this. It's unique to sky and very cheap. Honestly wouldn't be concerned at all if I was a reg featured in his site. Posted by TeddyBloat
Firstly I think this has gone off topic and into another thing entirely. Namely Rob's DB. I for one think its a good fun thing to have on this Community, it must take a **** of a lot of dedication to do and adds great content. As for being able to deduce someones 'style' I think is a bit of a stretch and not that much of a help if at all true. It would take a lot of hours to trawl through the data to pick out people you probably wont come across a lot and the ones you do you invariably have reads or knowledge of them anyway. And, more importantly, practically every decent and as far as a relatively novice player should be able to interpret someones 'style' with in a few orbits anyway. Secondly, I think Geldy needs to clarify his worries a little better. HUD's are banned and as someone has said offer in game stats and in no form is this possible. Posted by CraigSG1
Thanks Craig,
It is fun. It does take a lot of time to produce too.
You are right about assessing style is something you can do after a few orbits. I can do this too. I like to play against weaker players, I don't like playing against stronger players. No different to anyone else. What I prefer to do is optimise my play against both.
Is Aussies DB similar enough to sharkscope? Sharkscope shows me a graph and I can judge what type of player I might be up against. Aussies shows some numbers that don't seem to relate to anything. Posted by mumsie
true, mumsie. i have thought about adding a graph, i might do one day. it is a nice thing to look at. pretty. looking at numbers can be seen as uninformative. that's why i have a HERO Card. this puts information across quickly and simply. once you get used to the layout it is very easy to see the numbers. And readily interpret the numbers.
Comments
SkyPoker will have to comply with the Data Protection Act as they have access to your personal data, i.e. information that is identifiable as you. They will have to process that information fairly and lawfully and keep it safe and secure.
When joining you give them access to your name. address, contact details, date of birth and payment details.
You will consent to their Terms and Conditions and are aware that your alias results are publically available in the lobbies if you enter a SNG or MTT.
They also have a Privacy Notice (link at bottom left) which is requirement of the DPA.
So this information (your alias and tournament results) is published on the site with your consent.
Sharkscope as far as I am aware are not in breach of the DPA as they take publically available information identifiable only via a poker alias.
You can opt out of Sharkscope if you wish.
We'd probably not object to Sharkscope Links were it not for the fact that all manner of non-compliant (to Sky Poker) advertising is on that site. I'm not talking on non-stop Sharkscope spamming, I'm thinking of players who post their Sharkscope graphs & the like, which seems fine to me.
I don't see any of this quite as black & white as some, there are always degrees of right & wrong, & I'm simply keen to help make this Forum user & player friendly for as many as possible. If I need to make some tough decisions, I will.
"Alias" is the key.
They don't publish personal information, only that which is in the domain.
Dare I suggest that the site in question here could consider a similar approach to cover costs? If it truly is useful to poker players that are profiting from the site, a decent amount of donations should be forthcoming at a price deemed acceptable to the user (also avoiding any false advertising issues as noted elsewhere in this thread).
Everyone wins?
The "other databases" which you mention - let's call them Sharkscope & RobScope - do not, in my opinion, or that of Sky Poker, "expose playing styles", though I know Rob suggests otherwise. They show results, not playing styles. We can only infer from that sort of data certain things - primarily what format they play (NLH, PLO, MTT's, SNG's), what buy-in level, & how much profit or loss a player makes (excluding cash games). Others may disagree, but that's the line. Inferring "playing style" from that is tenuous, we simply get to know what sort of games they play, & whether they win or lose.
As it happens, Sky Poker are not madly keen on having Sharkscope extract that information, pay nothing for it, & sell it on, but short of a court battle, it's hard to stop. They WOULD stop it if it worked like a HUD, or any similar Third Party Software which helps players IN HAND & IN GAME, but it does not. It's a completely different animal to a HUD.
"Type A data & Type B Data" I've covered in my previous post. HUD's & a Results Database are not even remotely similar.
Then we get to what seems to be the gist of the matter.....
"......can be freely marketed on the forum"
Only Sky Poker, nothing else, can be "freely marketed on the Forum".
I've stated this earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat.
I was given responsibility for the Forum, & it's Moderation, some time ago, having made a bit of a nuisance of myself Upstairs with a very strong view that The Business was closing too many threads. We have not closed any threads since, with the exception of a FIRST TIME POSTER who was advertising something. And yet that was cited yesterday as evidence that Aussie should not be allowed to promote his Site. I think there's a world of difference between the two cases. But what do we want? Inflexible, one size fits all? That's not always fair. Or flexible, & get "one rule for the rich, another for the poor" stated, as it was last week in another matter.
It's not that easy, or simple.
We are trying to make this Forum a better place, more positivity, less negativity, but it's awfully difficult.
I do agree that if Rob were charging for everything, that's a different matter, & if it were a "business", so is that. I saw it - at the time - as more of a community service, & a well intended one.
Anyway, I'll have to have a think, & try & do the right thing, make the right decisions.
I need to press on now, I have an Update to get on with, & 2 articles to write before 8am in the morning.
For the record, again repeated, these are my decisions, not Sky Poker's, so I won't be hiding behind them, & I'll try to do the right thing.
I'm a bit baffled by it all to be honest, which I'll try & explain better tomorrow (later today....).
For now, goodnight, I'd better press on.
they are very much the same thing, true. sharkscope looks at everything whereas my work is focussed on the major tournaments alone. my view is that to assess achievement in major tournaments (excluding smaller field, smaller buy-in tournaments) it is better to only use data from major tournaments.
then, because of this approach, it is then possible to produce far more meaningful comparisons between players. leagues too. if you are playing a major tournament you will want to know how good your opponent is in this standard of game. how he/she compares to you. you could be mislead if your opponents results are derived from a less focussed range of games types. it's having a dedicated and calibrated yardstick.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden: i acknowledge that you have a fine ability to interpret analysis and reach sound conclusions more often than most. i have seen your posts elsewhere. i can only interpret figures simplistically in comparison. all the info i have i have been doing for years. it was just over a year ago i choose to share this with others. if useful, great. i not, great too.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden: I have contemplated this and how it could be done.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden: I just like to know what is the best thing to do if someone shoves, in or out of position. Or indeed whether I should. I consider me to be an average player who applies my averageness in the most beneficially way, at the most advantageous time. i know hundreds, if not thousands, who are better players than me, but I have achieved quite a lot here (excuse me for this brag, 6 hoodies, 3 Team Sky Poker places, over 20 major tournament wins, UKPCs and Punta Cana) despite being of very average ability.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden: Thanks man. I agree with you.
geeky? yes. i call it Apllied OCD.
It is fun. It does take a lot of time to produce too.
You are right about assessing style is something you can do after a few orbits. I can do this too. I like to play against weaker players, I don't like playing against stronger players. No different to anyone else. What I prefer to do is optimise my play against both.