Yep, I see why you'd want to avoid that, because the vast majority of losing/break even players in the stats would show that my point is correct - for the vast majority these games are a complete waste of time, or worse.
Yep, I see why you'd want to avoid that, because the vast majority of losing/break even players in the stats would show that my point is correct - for the vast majority these games are a complete waste of time, or worse. Posted by swanstu
Got some data to support that?
Do you really mean "majority", as opposed to "vast majority"?
To be fair to Timmy, his performances with playing DYMs is very impressive. Maybe he's found the golden way to beat those games, and if so then good luck to him. But for every Timmy there would be another 200 players just paying the rake and wasting their time. If you are a DYM genius who can beat it good luck to you (though I don't envy the grinding lifestyle even then). If you are like 99% of players (who most admit they play for fun only in any case) then forget ever trying to make any money playing DYMs especially Turbo ones. The fact that everyone is so amazed by Timmy's results says a lot - most could only dream of breaking even with these games with such high rake, and most would be wasting their time trying to mimic his results. Posted by swanstu
Timmys impressive results , hes a prodigy, not a freak.
Its doable, adjusting your ranges to individul players, rake through some hand histories, do, away from the table calculations and study.
Get sitandgo wizard and run ranges v ranges through it.
Having a pop at people playing for enjoyment again ? Let it go will you, ive sat at Timmy s table whilst he was multi-tabling, he was interacting in the chat box, ill say he plays for enjoyment too.
Sharkscope.com if you want to go through it all in various ways - there's quite a lot though
I've spent a fair amount of time analysing various things using sharkscope, and one thing that slowly dawned was why the heck was I playing these games for 5.50 to win 4.50 in these formats.
If you win 50% of your DYM games (average player) you lose a lot of money if you play a lot of games (e.g. £5 level you're losing £1 every 2 games).
Saying that an 'average' player is a more common player (just as there are less of the extreme sharks or fish playing) there are a lot of them out there, all doing that. I'd say a 'vast majority' is a pretty fair description in that case.
Even if you do get a little better, further up the ladder of skill, you may still be losing in these games (just slightly less). That also adds to this majority, and then you finally reach the breakeven ones. If you make it to that small pool of mates circling around together with sharky fins then great, but don't bank on it.
I'm very much a recreational player, playing Turbo DYMs at the lowest stakes, 28p & 55p and have, since 1 January, recorded a win rate of 64.2% and have basically doubled my (admittedly small) account balance.
Mumsie - this OP was posted by someone looking to discuss winning/losing money/variance etc - if you don't like that topic that's up to you. Posted by swanstu
Ok, send me the link to where I should be posting to contribute to this thread , ill post there instead.
6 runners , top 3 paid , roughly 4/5 your cash , if you think your no bad at poker and fancy your chances the odds are not to bad. with lot of time , effort and a bit of luck you could make money.
It's amazing how defensive the DYM players are, but also not really surprising - they make up a bulk of turnover for this site, and the shark regs earn their corn from convincing people to come play 'with them'. But be honest then that's why you love supporting the format and rake structure.
Cash play is by far the best suggestion for average or new players who are looking to improve their returns through developing their game surely?
It's amazing how defensive the DYM players are, but also not really surprising - they make up a bulk of turnover for this site, and the shark regs earn their corn from convincing people to come play 'with them'. But be honest then that's why you love supporting the format and rake structure. Cash play is by far the best suggestion for average or new players who are looking to improve their returns through developing their game surely? Posted by swanstu
Well yes, if you wanted to play more cash games than anything else.
If you're wanting to play DYMs, then you'd be better off putting the hours and volume in there.
If you're wanting to play MTTs, then you'd be better off putting the hours and volume in there.
Of course there are some people who should probably just stick to play money, I'm sure you'll agree.
You do realise your point regarding DYMs using your average player argument is that there is rake in the games?
I don't have access to figures but I am sure that cash will make up a lot larger % of site turnover than DYMs would.
DYMs are good for recs as the format is relatively simple and losing players will lose their money slower than playing other formats of the game. The variance is also going to be lower than say cash or MTTs. This suits recreational players wanting their fun money to last a long time.
To make money in any format of the game you need to be good and work at your game. It very much depends on what a player wants to get out of poker to suggest what the best format suggestion would be. Also different players are suited or prefer different game formats.
Out of interest, do you play DYMs (primarily) Matt?
I find the format so limited, especially when blinds increase rapidly (turbos) - surely playing in shove/fold/call games is hardly a good 'development' format for any player's poker game? Cash can be far more subtle across a session in comparison and many more aspects to the game involved. I know DYMs aren't only shove/call/fold but a large part of them at the key part of the game are.
It's amazing how defensive the DYM players are, but also not really surprising - theymake up a bulk of turnover for this site, and the shark regs earn their corn from convincing people to come play 'with them'. But be honest then that's why you love supporting the format and rake structure. Cash play is by far the best suggestion for average or new players who are looking to improve their returns through developing their game surely? Posted by swanstu
In Response to Re: DYM's : They do? Define "bulk of the turnover" as a % please. Posted by Tikay10
If I can ask that you reply to the answer I gave you first please (you asked above and now a different question)? Or is that ignored because I actually answered your question?
I meant a 'significant' bulk in that they're the sngs that seem to fill quickest/most tables. I take the point about cash above though being a big turnover too.
In Response to Re: DYM's : If I can ask that you reply to the answer I gave you first please (you asked above and now a different question)? Or is that ignored because I actually answered your question? I meant a 'significant' bulk in that they're the sngs that seem to fill quickest/most tables. I take the point about cash above though being a big turnover too. Posted by swanstu
You stated "DYM players....are the bulk of the turnover for this site". They are, emphatically, not.
The fact that most SNG players play DYM's is completely unrelated to the previous statement.
Out of interest, do you play DYMs (primarily) Matt? I find the format so limited, especially when blinds increase rapidly (turbos) - surely playing in shove/fold/call games is hardly a good 'development' format for any player's poker game? Cash can be far more subtle across a session in comparison and many more aspects to the game involved. I know DYMs aren't only shove/call/fold but a large part of them at the key part of the game are. Posted by swanstu
Right, we all understand you don't like DYMs. Thats fine, its a free world and you can play whatever format of the game you desire.
Why you feel the need to keep reiterating things that are, quite simply, not true is beyond me. Whilst DYMs might be simple in their format, that doesn't make them easy and the people who win in those games do so because they put the hours in and have earnt the right to be successful in that format. And there is more to them than just ''push or fold'', so you can stop trotting that line out.
I'm sure if you put the time and effort in, you could be successful at DYMs, or whatever it is you choose to play. Until then, perhaps wind your neck in a little bit.
In Response to Re: DYM's : You stated "DYM players....are the bulk of the turnover for this site". They are, emphatically, not. The fact that most SNG players play DYM's is completely unrelated to the previous statement. Posted by Tikay10
I actually said they are 'a bulk' not 'the bulk' (which is somewhat different), but fine I'll accept they're not the biggest bulk, just a significant one still, hence something the site would like to defend, as you're all showing on here....
In Response to Re: DYM's : I actually said they are 'a bulk' not 'the bulk' (which is somewhat different), but fine I'll accept they're not the biggest bulk, just a significant one still, hence something the site would like to defend, as you're all showing on here.... Posted by swanstu
I don't care - nor does Sky Poker - whether players play SNG's, DYM's, MTT's or Cash. Makes no difference, just so long as they play here.
I'm not going to allow airy-fairy figures to be repeatedly plucked out of the air without defending &/or rebutting them though.
Comments
Do you really mean "majority", as opposed to "vast majority"?
Define "bulk of the turnover" as a % please.
You stated "DYM players....are the bulk of the turnover for this site". They are, emphatically, not.
The fact that most SNG players play DYM's is completely unrelated to the previous statement.
I'm not going to allow airy-fairy figures to be repeatedly plucked out of the air without defending &/or rebutting them though.
Can I ask that we stick to the facts please.