I would like to think my shoving ranges where strong, but there was spots that I imagine regs just wouldn't take like I remember a rec calling me with 44 in a spot when i jammed AA, you can guess what happened. Then spots where if you jam these sh*tty small pairs, just getting snapped by some 2 oc hand that looked sexy to them. Or like had a few times where recs snap you with a cr*ppy Ax when there is like 4 of you left.
In Response to Re: DYM's : I think I have been taken seriously, there are several agreeing and numerous replies trying to argue - if they didn't think my points were serious they would ignore this post (as is obviously not the case). I may have shown some of my initial irritation from my experience of these games in my earliest posts on this game format, but everyone can see I'm happy to discuss and amend my view (as I did acknowledge other posters points). I've clarified most of my points relate to a specific (but IMO large) group of players, and maybe not those smaller sample of winning players. I hope others could afford me (as some have done) the same allowance for my key discussion points. Posted by swanstu
There have so far been two (other) posters on here who have agreed with the suggestion to reduce rake to improve this format of the game for all players - should we ignore their views too? Posted by swanstu
Again, you can say exactly the same thing for MTTs or cash poker.
I think there is more of a skill edge in the game than swanstu reliases there is. Its about picking your spots shoving into the right players when you know you have fold equity and understanding icm. In an mtt there are spots were certain hands would be a snap call, in a dym it might be a snap fold with the icm. If people are willing to do a little study this stuff can be learned pretty quickly were as for other formats such as mtts and cash it might take years to get good at.
That said I do agree with his other point on the rake. Even if people are playing correctly edges are thin due to the nature of the format therefore most peoples roi will be pretty low. The way turbo dyms are raked the same as standard speed dyms i dont agree with as the edges are even smaller in turbo dyms. Ive heard other regs mention how there not sure if turbo dyms are beatable or not with the rake therefore i dont play them.
Rake should be lowered then new players will lose there money slower that can only be good for the site longterm. Im sure this would encourage more regs to play aswell if the rake was lowered.
I would like to think my shoving ranges where strong, but there was spots that I imagine regs just wouldn't take like I remember a rec calling me with 44 in a spot when i jammed AA, you can guess what happened. Then spots where if you jam these sh*tty small pairs, just getting snapped by some 2 oc hand that looked sexy to them. Or like had a few times where recs snap you with a cr*ppy Ax when there is like 4 of you left. Posted by HaveaA1Day
Stu it's not so much what you say as the way you say it that gets everyone's back up. Refer to sjspanky's post for how it should be done. Posted by jdsallstar
As I said JD, I may have shown some irritation in some posts, particularly earlier in this thread, and when I feel people are trying to represent the facts for their own benefit only, rather than the real nature of the situation. Also when 'moderation' seems slightly one-sided in how we are 'supposed' to discuss...
Apols (genuine) if you or anyone was offended though. I've always tried to keep this to the main topic, and not throw insults like 'troll', or personal insults around, unlike some others posting on here. I feel the several more balanced views appearing now would support several of my points made.
In Response to Re: DYM's : I've always tried to keep this to the main topic, and not throw insults like 'troll', or personal insults around, unlike some others posting on here. Posted by swanstu
God, you really take the biscuit.
Did you or did you not state
"mumsie, people who continually interject Off-topic in threads are 'trolls', look in the mirror please, if throwing around that sort of accusation."
About time this thread was locked. Nothing good is going to come of it.
Don't really think thread should be locked, its creating a debate/discussion/argument whatever you want to call it. If we banned politicians from speaking every time one aimed a slightly low blow we'd never hear them finish.......mmmm maybe thats a good plan.
In Response to Re: DYM's : God, you really take the biscuit. Did you or did you not state "mumsie, people who continually interject Off-topic in threads are 'trolls', look in the mirror please, if throwing around that sort of accusation." About time this thread was locked. Nothing good is going to come of it. Posted by FCHD[/QUOTE
Really?
I think we are finally getting to the real matter OP wanted discussed.
Can we call 10% rake TDYM's low variance and beatable?
Stu words his posts in a manner which insinuates everybody else is naive or stupid and that's why he deservedly gets the responses he does but all he's trying to imply is that they are not.
FCHD - I was replying to being called a 'troll' in that post! So that hardly counts does it! (lovely attempt at censure of discussion BTW, jeez some forum this).
Thanks Hendrik for at least being open, as I know you have disagreed with me on some points, but at least admit discussion is healthy. Thank you.
I said JD wasnt a troll, he's not, hes a well respected player , his views and input on all poker topics carries weight.
Ive been lucky enough to share dym tables with him in the past, hence my opinion. He's always happy to contribute in the chat box and is upbeat and always cheerful.
FCHD - I was replying to being called a 'troll' in that post! So that hardly counts does it! (lovely attempt at censure of discussion BTW, jeez some forum this) Posted by swanstu
No you weren't. Mumsie's post was saying that someone else wasn't a troll. I've added not understanding English to not understanding poker to my notes, and added you to my "ignore" list.
And as for my suggestion that this thread be closed, it wasn't based on censorship, more on the fact that nothing new had come up in the last 4 or 5 pages, the arguments were just going round and round in circles and it was quickly degenerating (of which I hold my hand up and admit to probably being guilty of myself)
In Response to Re: DYM's : God, you really take the biscuit. Did you or did you not state "mumsie, people who continually interject Off-topic in threads are 'trolls', look in the mirror please, if throwing around that sort of accusation." About time this thread was locked. Nothing good is going to come of it. Posted by FCHD[/QUOTE Really? I think we are finally getting to the real matter OP wanted discussed. Can we call 10% rake TDYM's low variance and beatable? Stu words his posts in a manner which insinuates everybody else is naive or stupid and that's why he deservedly gets the responses he does but all he's trying to imply is that they are not. I agree. Posted by SJspanky1
Thanks for the backhanded compliment - my vehemence is not usually aimed players/posters as such (unless they have a go at me first personally) more the game/overall setup. You've summed up my main argument quite fairly well.
I may have allowed some of my annoyance at this game to come into my posts, as I've already admitted. But, that doesn't mean my points were wrong, as many have seen what I mean correctly interpreted.
In Response to Re: DYM's : nothing new had come up in the last 4 or 5 pages, the arguments were just going round and round in circles and it was quickly degenerating (of which I hold my hand up and admit to probably being guilty of myself) Posted by FCHD
Several other posters have already disagreed with that point, re rake and the game format. The fact that they have recently appeared suggests you're wrong.
Anyway, I think the points I've made here about game formats, rake, payout structures, variance have all been said, and clarified, so I'm happy these are clearer now - as several have now agreed that given the nature of these games rake could and should be considered very carefully - which also supports the view that all players should carefully consider these points before focusing on these games.
I'm happy that there is clear recognition on here now that these are important issues for all players chosing a game format to play, finally - and that was all I wanted to point out to begin with. The regs can go back to trying to convince the masses they should 'come play' with them.
Anyway, I think the points I've made here about game formats, rake, payout structures, variance have all been said, and clarified, so I'm happy these are clearer now - as several have now agreed that given the nature of these games rake could and should be considered very carefully - which also supports the view that all players should carefully consider these points before focusing on these games. I'm happy that there is clear recognition on here now that these are important issues for all players chosing a game format to play, finally - and that was all I wanted to point out to begin with. The regs can go back to trying to convince the masses they should 'come play' with them. GL all. Posted by swanstu
Anyway, I think the points I've made here about game formats, rake, payout structures, variance have all been said, and clarified, so I'm happy these are clearer now - as several have now agreed that given the nature of these games rake could and should be considered very carefully - which also supports the view that all players should carefully consider these points before focusing on these games. I'm happy that there is clear recognition on here now that these are important issues for all players chosing a game format to play, finally - and that was all I wanted to point out to begin with. The regs can go back to trying to convince the masses they should 'come play' with them. GL all. Posted by swanstu
Not sure why you're trying to take some faux moral highground.
Most of what you have posted in this thread is garbage, which is the norm for you. Regardless of the format, rake should always be considered. Ultimately if you're a losing player, then you'll lose money; doesn't matter if thats at DYMs, cash, MTTs, spin ups, RRs, whatever. Less rake might make it last a tad longer, but thats about it (although you could argue that less rake might attract more regs and essentially your money will go just as quickly)
And it really doesn't work when you try to come across as helping new/old players pick a format. We all know you just wanted to bash DYMs again as you can't beat them.
If you don't like them, don't play them. Ironically, it really doesn't get more simple than that.
Comments
Again, you can say exactly the same thing for MTTs or cash poker.
God, you really take the biscuit.
Did you or did you not state
"mumsie, people who continually interject Off-topic in threads are 'trolls', look in the mirror please, if throwing around that sort of accusation."
About time this thread was locked. Nothing good is going to come of it.
No you weren't. Mumsie's post was saying that someone else wasn't a troll. I've added not understanding English to not understanding poker to my notes, and added you to my "ignore" list.
And as for my suggestion that this thread be closed, it wasn't based on censorship, more on the fact that nothing new had come up in the last 4 or 5 pages, the arguments were just going round and round in circles and it was quickly degenerating (of which I hold my hand up and admit to probably being guilty of myself)