The EU don't actually run our country, that is what the Government does. What makes you think that the EU is to blame for any of the above? Its our Government that is telling you that the economy is booming, not the EU. You are confused.
So who's been telling the British Government what they can & cannot do since 1973.
A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths.
Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order a box of bananas.
Have you got straight bananas then, because I haven't?
We are told the Economy is booming but services in decline, prices & taxes go up, wages, living standards go down. The younger generation deprived of Apprenticeships, Pensions, now Paying for Education. Up to their eye balls in debt even before they start so what chance getting on the housing ladder.
All the above has got absolutely nothing to do with us being members of the EU, and it all may continue after we have left. In fact the EU has been responsible for much of the more recent legislation that protects workers, that a Conservative Government may not have been in favour of. So if bananas is the best thing you can come up with, that just confirms to me that a remain vote was correct.
Should the ballot paper in the referendum been more comprehensive? Voting Remain was straightforward, as all voters knew what voting Remain meant. However, voting for Brexit wasn't that straightforward, as there are a number of different options. How stupid would Theresa May seem now, walking around saying Brexit means Brexit, when we still don't know what Brexit actually means to the Government. There are a number of different types of Brexits. Some Brexit voters just wanted to leave the EU and opt for WTO rules. Other Brexit voters wanted to leave the EU, but stay in the Single Market, and the Customs Union. Others wanted to leave, but just have a trade deal. There are other choices, but what would have happened if the ballot paper had included these choices instead of just "Leave" So if the Leave voters had voted equally in terms of these 3 options, then around 34% of the leave voters will be unhappy with whatever deal we finally get. Add the 48% that voted Remain and we could end up with 82% unhappy with any deal we get.
When you look back at it all, it's incred really.
People voting for something when in reality they had no idea exactly what they were voting for. Essentially voting in the dark for something that important is beyond absurd.
And that's the crux; it was far too big a decision to go to the public lightly. And it went very lightly, with ridiculous claims written on the side of buses pretty much summing up the referendum.
Sigh.
I can only agree. I blame both sides. The Brexit side for their lies, but also the remain for selling it so badly. How could Wales vote to leave, when the EU gives us £650 million every year. Westminster aren't about to replace it. Although it shouldn't really be a surprise, when you get the likes of Naseem Hamed asking seriously, whether we have ever had a female Prime Minister.
Some of the reasons you heard from people for why they voted leave were pretty amazing. I am leaving because they sell Polish sausage in Tesco. I am voting leave to stop illegal immigration.
I find it confusing how people can both take our jobs and come over here and be on benefits.
People tend to see jobs going from UK born people and link it to EU workers when it is not the case in some situations. Modernisation has lost lots of jobs, at the supermarket you can scan your own items which will mean less till operatives. At the bank you can do most things at the ATM and are encouraged to do so, again means less staff. If companies can invest in a machine to do things instead of staff then they will.
I am not saying that all of the leave voters had poor reasons as there were some who had well thought out reasons to leave. I do think the leave campaign played on the emotions of people and gave them someone to blame for their problems. I do think it was far to complicated a situation for us to be expected to have a meaningful vote on it.
Sorry Matt, but one of the reasons for voting "Leave" that you omitted was "Straight Bananas".
We are still in the E.U. we have not left yet, our Country is in ruins from years of being in the E.U. We never got to vote then now we have the remain camp say foul play, the leave won because who wanted another 20 year of the same. We are told the Economy is booming but services in decline, prices & taxes go up, wages, living standards go down. The younger generation deprived of Apprenticeships, Pensions, now Paying for Education. Up to their eye balls in debt even before they start so what chance getting on the housing ladder.
Don't start me of't. If there is another vote then a vote for remain is vote for the same.
The same younger generation who are on the verge of being deprived of the right to live, work and move freely in over 20 European countries?
There are signs to me that we are struggling financially as a nation, im not sure what constitutes a nation, but I think we all probably agree.
Ill list what know from personal experience around me.
1. Local magistrates court has been demolished and the land sold to private investors. 2. Local tax office, same. 3. Local council tip, sold, private company owns it. 4. I have a mate in the navy, a Petty officer(I think) , his boat was due to do a tour of America, the trip was cancelled because we couldn't afford the fuel. America said they would cover the fuel ,the trip went ahead. 5 we sold our flagship, the ark royal for scrap. 6 Work based pensions introduced, this isnt for "our" pensions when "we" retire, its to pay for the shortfall now.
Ok, 4 is anecdotal and 3 is 14 miles away "locally" and 5 is my little joke and 6 is a guess.
My Navy mate quote "Were skint, the rest of the worlds military know it, weve become a laughing stock." .
Must admit when this thread started thought well here's a car crash waiting to happen But no there has been some good debate and some very good points raised (even brought some diverse people together]. Sure it cant last eh Jac hhhyyd haysie. Even goldon and his straight bananas failed, tho i think this must have been meant in jest.
Surely.
Overall for what its worth mostly agree with Marky. Scotland does have very different attitudes to social welfare and acceptance than the rest of the UK. Immigration is necessary for most countries to thrive and develope. The NHS for one would collapse without the many many foreign nationals propping it up {even with the imaginary extra £350 million}.
On the independence question yeah I think if held post EU referendum there would be a vast majority to leave UK and remain in EU
A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths.
Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order a box of bananas.
Superb post Tom, superb.
The tabloids love trying to make up these daft stories, knowing there are so many gullible folks out there.
For me one of the biggest political issues in the past 10+years has been the housing market. Think we are seeing a shift in government policy now with Section 24 targeting buy to let, and greater tenants rights being discussed more seriously, this should lead to houses being seen as a less attractive investment, and possibly the end of the “amateur landlord”. Even this guy thinks it’s all over
Be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this shift - unfair attack on small business or rebalancing the scales towards younger generations?
I have always disliked the buy to let market. The large scale landlords often don't give two hoots for their tenants and the small scale landlords rarely have a great understanding of the risks involved in their venture.
The buy to let market has kept property prices artificially high for years and this is the first government that has started to take steps that should slow that market down. Although it will be unpleasant for many if it does cause a stall or even a fall in property prices, a property downturn is realistically the only way that many first time buyers will be able to buy their own property.
Marky covers a lot of what I agree with , when we in Scotland had the vote for independence the SNP published " The white paper ", this covered what would happen in the event of a YES vote, and when it would take place. The Media got right behind the NO vote with " Project Fear " , as the establishment do not want change....especially as Scotland would be close to a true Socialist country. I have no love for Thatcher and her no such thing as Society, I have no qualms about paying my tax to help society function, but do not think the Tory party use the funds well. One of the 1st things Thatcher done was give huge pay rises to the police and army, she knew £ could work to turn brother against brother . Coal & Steel industries destroyed , utility companies , council houses , public services sold off for the rich to get richer. I voted Labour for many years, despite the words of a wise old man telling me in my early teens " Labour will always keep the working class....working class , a GNT vote " Well I and most of Scotland have given up on Labour, they are finished for the foreseeable future in Scotland . The SNP are not perfect, but do a great job overall with the funds they have . For the UK ,still one of the top richest countries in the world to have queues at food banks, vast numbers of homelessness , a crisis in NHS etc etc is appalling .
The vote on Brexit was again " project fear " blame the immigrants , forget that many of our own family's came from abroad, or now live abroad in USA , Canada, Spain etc. The E U overall has been a great success, I don't see much benefit in leaving to have a blue passport, less workers rights, and longer queues at airports for those of us fortunate enough to travel.
I have always disliked the buy to let market. The large scale landlords often don't give two hoots for their tenants and the small scale landlords rarely have a great understanding of the risks involved in their venture.
My previous landlord was a guy who bought his own house a while back, then had to move somewhere else due to work, so he ended up renting the place out. First time landlord. Bloke didn't have a clue what he was doing, and the letting agency were happy to rinse him for a stupid amount each month to sit on their backsides all day. Obviously any time there was an issue, it cost him tons when the letting agency called out their buddies who would charge them an extortionate amount for the most basic things.
When I first moved in, he had left a hook in the window for and you couldn't shut the window properly. I left it for about 18 months because it wasn't that bad - I could still keep heat in the rest of the house provided I closed the bathroom door. Because he had put the hook on the corner of the window and not in the centre, over time it pulled the window out of alignment. It didn't get fixed until I threatened to withhold rent to replace the entire window myself. Obviously that threat resulted in me getting a snobby e-mail back from his wife, and the letting agency telling me how upset the landlord was that I was somehow "rude to him" for expecting them to maintain the property as required.
In the end, he ended up travelling down from Nottingham by car to replace a handle on my bathroom window to do a job that took like 10-15 minutes, because it was cheaper for him than getting the letting agency to call someone out lols.
In the end, he sold the property, presumably because he wasn't making any money. He was charging about £75pm below what was normal for the area too, so there's absolutely no way he could've been making any money.
My Dad tried renting a house in Durham when he sold his old house to move in with GF and I got kicked out. Buys some house for like £30k thinking he could just rent it out, print like £400pm even though it's in a deprived area, pay the letting agency their cut and it would just look after itself while he prints money. He didn't know the area at all, never got a tenant in >1yr, and sold the place for about a £12k loss. Did try telling him it was a bad idea because he didn't have a clue what he was doing, but he had his heart set on it so I tried going through finances with him. Was clearly going to fail when I asked him "So how much do you expect your net profit to be per month?" and he responded with the same amount that he was planning to charge for rent. Twice. After I defined net profit to him. You have expenses mate, you don't just get to print money for owning property *facepalm*
Current landlord has 7 properties I believe. Improvement on the first landlord because they at least have some idea what they're doing, but you can certainly tell how little they care about the tenant in certain spots. My fridge broke within a couple of months of me moving in, and they replaced it with a fridge about half the size because it was obv cheapest available. Marvellous. All about that £££££.
The buy to let market has kept property prices artificially high for years and this is the first government that has started to take steps that should slow that market down. Although it will be unpleasant for many if it does cause a stall or even a fall in property prices, a property downturn is realistically the only way that many first time buyers will be able to buy their own property.
As for first time buyers getting anywhere, I'm still holding out for Sky introducing 1house/2house NLHE cash tables. Start at 0.000002house/0.000004house and grind up. #OneTimeeee
But yeah, housing market is screwed. My rent is £650pm, and all my expenses for the month usually add up to ~£1200pm. Then if you're unlucky enough to have a landlord who decides to sell the property as I did, you end up getting mugged off for like 5-6 weeks' rent as deposit when they find some excuse to not return your money, and paying out usually another few hundred quid in letting agents' fees.
Most of my school friends are in min wage jobs in supermarkets/pubs/restaurants etc. GL them getting their own houses or even renting anywhere at current prices without working stupid hours per week or being dependent on parents or partners' income. And forget about being able to go on holiday or have any kind of quality of life in the meantime if they do want to save up enough to buy somewhere of their own.
I have a couple of friends who want to go back to College and get better qualifications to get better jobs, but the cost of living prevents any kind of social mobility, so they're basically stuck working X hours a week to pay the rent just to survive in low-skilled jobs, with little prospect of things changing, and rent increasing so much faster than people's wages that it's only a matter of time before everyone suddenly can't afford their rent any more.
I have found the course of the Brexit negotiations pretty confusing. The latest thing to add to my confusion has been the demand for Parliament to have a meaningful vote on the outcome. This appears to mean that when the final deal is negotiated with the EU, the House of Commons will vote to approve the deal. If the deal is not acceptable the government would have to go back to the EU, and try to get a better deal. What happens then if they go back and cant get a better deal? What happens if they go back and get a different deal, but it again gets voted down? What happens if they go back and get a better deal which is still not acceptable? What happens if they are still going back and fore until the transition period ends? Would we then crash out over the proverbial cliff edge? What sort of meaningful vote would that be? The only meaningful vote that would make sense to me would be a choice between the final deal and staying in. So if they cant get a better deal than we have now, we keep the deal we have.
The latest realistic thinking seems centre around the Norway option. Norway have access to the single market, contribute to the budget, and get no say on the rules. So if the best we could get is a Norway deal, with only a minimal reduction in our budget contributions, the public could easily decide whether or not it was better to stay in. The unrealistic view seems to have gone back to having our cake and eating it. It will be impossible to get the same access we have now, when we are not members. If that was possible then why would any of them remain members?
Theresa May and the Conservative Party seem to think that stage 1 of the negotiations have been a success. They have had 18 months since the referendum, and 9 months since the negotiations started to get a resolution to stage one. Yet moving on to stage 2 is down to the sufficient progress on stage 1, rather than the 3 topics being agreed.
The money seems to be agreed, and despite the fact it is our money, we are not entitled to know what the actual total is likely to be.
There is more to be discussed on rights of our immigrants, and those of the Brits living in Europe.
The Irish border question has been fudged by offering a solution that will not happen.
So two of the three questions that have been discussed for 9 months remain unresolved.
Why could our side not have just immediately, Calculated our bill and made a realistic offer. Offered our immigrants the same rights they have currently, thereby ensuring the Brits in Europe get the same. Offered two solutions to the Irish border, one if we get a deal, the other if we don't.
How could you make that negotiation last 9 months.
Boris Johnson is a d ick, and should quietly retire.
How can they solve the Irish border problem outside the Customs Union.
I thought it was a case of if it gets voted down we do not get the deal with the EU but we still leave. I.E. - no deal, at all.
One thing is for sure... It is all a huge mess.
No the politicians I have seen have said that they will either vote for the deal or that they should go back and get a better one. It is a mess for sure.
Comments
Its our Government that is telling you that the economy is booming, not the EU.
You are confused.
So who's been telling the British Government what they can & cannot do since 1973.
Straight Banana's
Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order a box of bananas.
We are told the Economy is booming but services in decline, prices & taxes go up, wages, living standards go down.
The younger generation deprived of Apprenticeships, Pensions, now Paying for Education.
Up to their eye balls in debt even before they start so what chance getting on the housing ladder.
All the above has got absolutely nothing to do with us being members of the EU, and it all may continue after we have left.
In fact the EU has been responsible for much of the more recent legislation that protects workers, that a Conservative Government may not have been in favour of.
So if bananas is the best thing you can come up with, that just confirms to me that a remain vote was correct.
Just because there was a vote to leave ..... does not mean we will. "May" not happen.
There are signs to me that we are struggling financially as a nation, im not sure what constitutes a nation, but I think we all probably agree.
Ill list what know from personal experience around me.
1. Local magistrates court has been demolished and the land sold to private investors.
2. Local tax office, same.
3. Local council tip, sold, private company owns it.
4. I have a mate in the navy, a Petty officer(I think) , his boat was due to do a tour of America, the trip was cancelled because we couldn't afford the fuel. America said they would cover the fuel ,the trip went ahead.
5 we sold our flagship, the ark royal for scrap.
6 Work based pensions introduced, this isnt for "our" pensions when "we" retire, its to pay for the shortfall now.
Ok, 4 is anecdotal and 3 is 14 miles away "locally" and 5 is my little joke and 6 is a guess.
My Navy mate quote "Were skint, the rest of the worlds military know it, weve become a laughing stock."
.
Must admit when this thread started thought well here's a car crash waiting to happen
But no there has been some good debate and some very good points raised (even brought some diverse people together]. Sure it cant last eh Jac hhhyyd haysie.
Even goldon and his straight bananas failed, tho i think this must have been meant in jest.
Surely.
Overall for what its worth mostly agree with Marky. Scotland does have very different attitudes to social welfare and acceptance than the rest of the UK. Immigration is necessary for most countries to thrive and develope. The NHS for one would collapse without the many many foreign nationals propping it up {even with the imaginary extra £350 million}.
On the independence question yeah I think if held post EU referendum there would be a vast majority to leave UK and remain in EU
Anyway all for now.
STRAIGHT BANANAS REALLY
The tabloids love trying to make up these daft stories, knowing there are so many gullible folks out there.
Be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this shift - unfair attack on small business or rebalancing the scales towards younger generations?
The buy to let market has kept property prices artificially high for years and this is the first government that has started to take steps that should slow that market down. Although it will be unpleasant for many if it does cause a stall or even a fall in property prices, a property downturn is realistically the only way that many first time buyers will be able to buy their own property.
The Media got right behind the NO vote with " Project Fear " , as the establishment
do not want change....especially as Scotland would be close to a true Socialist country.
I have no love for Thatcher and her no such thing as Society, I have no qualms about paying my tax to help society function, but do not think the Tory party use the funds
well.
One of the 1st things Thatcher done was give huge pay rises to the police and army,
she knew £ could work to turn brother against brother .
Coal & Steel industries destroyed , utility companies , council houses , public services sold off for the rich to get richer.
I voted Labour for many years, despite the words of a wise old man telling me in my early teens " Labour will always keep the working class....working class , a GNT vote "
Well I and most of Scotland have given up on Labour, they are finished for the foreseeable future in Scotland . The SNP are not perfect, but do a great job overall
with the funds they have .
For the UK ,still one of the top richest countries in the world to have queues at
food banks, vast numbers of homelessness , a crisis in NHS etc etc is appalling .
The vote on Brexit was again " project fear " blame the immigrants , forget that
many of our own family's came from abroad, or now live abroad in USA , Canada, Spain etc.
The E U overall has been a great success, I don't see much benefit in leaving to have a blue passport, less workers rights, and longer queues at airports for those of us fortunate enough to travel.
When I first moved in, he had left a hook in the window for and you couldn't shut the window properly. I left it for about 18 months because it wasn't that bad - I could still keep heat in the rest of the house provided I closed the bathroom door. Because he had put the hook on the corner of the window and not in the centre, over time it pulled the window out of alignment. It didn't get fixed until I threatened to withhold rent to replace the entire window myself. Obviously that threat resulted in me getting a snobby e-mail back from his wife, and the letting agency telling me how upset the landlord was that I was somehow "rude to him" for expecting them to maintain the property as required.
In the end, he ended up travelling down from Nottingham by car to replace a handle on my bathroom window to do a job that took like 10-15 minutes, because it was cheaper for him than getting the letting agency to call someone out lols.
In the end, he sold the property, presumably because he wasn't making any money. He was charging about £75pm below what was normal for the area too, so there's absolutely no way he could've been making any money.
My Dad tried renting a house in Durham when he sold his old house to move in with GF and I got kicked out. Buys some house for like £30k thinking he could just rent it out, print like £400pm even though it's in a deprived area, pay the letting agency their cut and it would just look after itself while he prints money. He didn't know the area at all, never got a tenant in >1yr, and sold the place for about a £12k loss. Did try telling him it was a bad idea because he didn't have a clue what he was doing, but he had his heart set on it so I tried going through finances with him. Was clearly going to fail when I asked him "So how much do you expect your net profit to be per month?" and he responded with the same amount that he was planning to charge for rent. Twice. After I defined net profit to him. You have expenses mate, you don't just get to print money for owning property *facepalm*
Current landlord has 7 properties I believe. Improvement on the first landlord because they at least have some idea what they're doing, but you can certainly tell how little they care about the tenant in certain spots. My fridge broke within a couple of months of me moving in, and they replaced it with a fridge about half the size because it was obv cheapest available. Marvellous. All about that £££££. As for first time buyers getting anywhere, I'm still holding out for Sky introducing 1house/2house NLHE cash tables. Start at 0.000002house/0.000004house and grind up. #OneTimeeee
But yeah, housing market is screwed. My rent is £650pm, and all my expenses for the month usually add up to ~£1200pm. Then if you're unlucky enough to have a landlord who decides to sell the property as I did, you end up getting mugged off for like 5-6 weeks' rent as deposit when they find some excuse to not return your money, and paying out usually another few hundred quid in letting agents' fees.
Most of my school friends are in min wage jobs in supermarkets/pubs/restaurants etc. GL them getting their own houses or even renting anywhere at current prices without working stupid hours per week or being dependent on parents or partners' income. And forget about being able to go on holiday or have any kind of quality of life in the meantime if they do want to save up enough to buy somewhere of their own.
I have a couple of friends who want to go back to College and get better qualifications to get better jobs, but the cost of living prevents any kind of social mobility, so they're basically stuck working X hours a week to pay the rent just to survive in low-skilled jobs, with little prospect of things changing, and rent increasing so much faster than people's wages that it's only a matter of time before everyone suddenly can't afford their rent any more.
Wow. Just wow.
I'm ashamed that anyone in Great Britain can think, let alone say, such stuff.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42679187
In which context would they be acceptable? Unreal!
The latest thing to add to my confusion has been the demand for Parliament to have a meaningful vote on the outcome.
This appears to mean that when the final deal is negotiated with the EU, the House of Commons will vote to approve the deal. If the deal is not acceptable the government would have to go back to the EU, and try to get a better deal.
What happens then if they go back and cant get a better deal?
What happens if they go back and get a different deal, but it again gets voted down?
What happens if they go back and get a better deal which is still not acceptable?
What happens if they are still going back and fore until the transition period ends?
Would we then crash out over the proverbial cliff edge?
What sort of meaningful vote would that be?
The only meaningful vote that would make sense to me would be a choice between the final deal and staying in.
So if they cant get a better deal than we have now, we keep the deal we have.
The latest realistic thinking seems centre around the Norway option. Norway have access to the single market, contribute to the budget, and get no say on the rules.
So if the best we could get is a Norway deal, with only a minimal reduction in our budget contributions, the public could easily decide whether or not it was better to stay in.
The unrealistic view seems to have gone back to having our cake and eating it. It will be impossible to get the same access we have now, when we are not members. If that was possible then why would any of them remain members?
Theresa May and the Conservative Party seem to think that stage 1 of the negotiations have been a success. They have had 18 months since the referendum, and 9 months since the negotiations started to get a resolution to stage one. Yet moving on to stage 2 is down to the sufficient progress on stage 1, rather than the 3 topics being agreed.
The money seems to be agreed, and despite the fact it is our money, we are not entitled to know what the actual total is likely to be.
There is more to be discussed on rights of our immigrants, and those of the Brits living in Europe.
The Irish border question has been fudged by offering a solution that will not happen.
So two of the three questions that have been discussed for 9 months remain unresolved.
Why could our side not have just immediately,
Calculated our bill and made a realistic offer.
Offered our immigrants the same rights they have currently, thereby ensuring the Brits in Europe get the same.
Offered two solutions to the Irish border, one if we get a deal, the other if we don't.
How could you make that negotiation last 9 months.
Boris Johnson is a d ick, and should quietly retire.
How can they solve the Irish border problem outside the Customs Union.
I thought it was a case of if it gets voted down we do not get the deal with the EU but we still leave. I.E. - no deal, at all.
One thing is for sure... It is all a huge mess.
It is a mess for sure.