Brexiteer u-turns proved to be too little too late to save Theresa May's deal - and now 'no Brexit' at all has become a serious risk
In the end, Iain Duncan Smith’s last minute decision to back the Withdrawal Agreement was not the catalyst that Theresa May had hoped for. Following David Davis’s change of heart, reciprocated by Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Dominic Raab, Downing Street had been counting on the former Conservative leader and Brexit heavyweight swaying the majority of the European Research Group hardliners to back the deal. But in the end the u-turns proved to be too little, too late. The third meaningful vote was lost by a majority of 58 on Friday, 28 of whom were staunch Tory leavers, joined by six so-called ‘rebel Remainiacs’. The Telegraph has learned that Mr Duncan Smith held face to face talks
Watson: if Labour backs another referendum it can beat Tories in elections Deputy leader’s comments come as polls show voters trust neither Corbyn nor May on Brexit
Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson has called on his party to “embrace” European elections in May, as well as the possibility of a general election, saying that if it goes into either contest pledging a confirmatory referendum it can beat the Tories. His upbeat pre-election rallying call comes as MPs prepare to vote again on Monday on a second referendum, after the plan to hold one on any Brexit deal that passes through parliament won the most votes of any option considered by MPs in last Wednesday’s series of indicative votes. Writing on theguardian.com, Watson says he is gearing up local members to select Labour candidates ready for the elections. While he emphasises his respect for Labour MPs and members opposed to a referendum, he says the party has now come together on a policy “that can unite our members, voters, MPs and yes, the leadership too.” Referring to Labour commitment to a policy under which any deal would have to be confirmed in a people’s vote he says: “This is a compromise position that provides a clear path to break the deadlock. Whether you voted leave, like the majority of people in my area did, or whether you voted remain, the current parliamentary paralysis works for no one. “We now have until April 12th to either agree a new path to a viable Brexit deal, with an extension to Article 50 that means taking part in European elections, or crash out with no deal.
“I think Labour should embrace European elections just as we should welcome a general election that might get rid of this broken government. If we go into either contest with a positive policy on Brexit and say any final deal must be put back to the people, I am confident Labour can win. We already have a fund raised by local parties to pay for the campaign and I’ve asked our national executive committee to develop a plan to get grassroots members involved in selecting candidates.” While supporters of a second referendum accept that the idea may not win majority support in the House of Commons on Monday, they believe it could still do so when tabled in the form of an amendment to any motion to approve a deal, or to legislation that will be needed to implement any withdrawal agreement.
EU would delay Brexit again to let UK hold a second referendum EU officials expect leaders to demand a justification from Theresa May for a long Article 50 extension
EU leaders are prepared to let Britain delay Brexit again to allow time for a second referendum, The Independent understands. After parliament rejected Theresa May’s deal for a third time, the bloc called a summit on 10 April – two days before the UK is on course to leave without a deal.
And senior Brussels officials familiar with leaders’ thinking say that barring a credible plan to get a majority for the withdrawal agreement, the UK would be given more time only if it was for another clear option such as a general election or a referendum.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
Jeremy Corbyn could be poised for Downing Street if May calls an election after shock poll reveals Labour have taken a FIVE-point lead over Tories… while Boris is still favourite to succeed the PM Public support for Labour party stands at 41 per cent, which is five points clear of Conservative party on 36 At election, Labour would be on course to win 307 seats - 19 short of majority, but could strike deal with SNP Poll also revealed Boris Johnson has double the support of Sajid Javid to be PM, with 15 per cent versus six
Jeremy Corbyn would be poised on the threshold of Downing Street if Theresa May called a General Election, an exclusive Mail on Sunday poll has found. After weeks of conflict in the Conservative Party, public support for Labour stands at 41 per cent, five points clear of the Tories on 36. If repeated at an Election, Labour would be on course to win 307 seats, while the Conservatives would claim just 264. Although Mr Corbyn would be 19 seats short of a majority, it would leave him in pole position to enter No 10 if he could strike an deal with the Scottish Nationalists.
Will she really risk it? The four options
Option 1 - May calls Election this week After her 2017 Election disaster that saw Jeremy Corbyn wipe out her majority, the PM would be incredibly wary about going to the country again. But she knows that without a change to the numbers, the House of Commons will remain deadlocked.
Option 2 - Confidence vote sparks Election If disgruntled Tories side with Labour in a vote of no confidence and Jeremy Corbyn is unable to form a government within 14 days, the country will be plunged into an Election anyway. Given that it looks inevitable, No 10 is split on whether to jump first.
Option 3 - PM accepts customs fudge If Parliament orders the UK to stay in the customs union, Mrs May could be forced to abandon a cherished ‘red line’. Accepting it would blow up her party as hundreds of Tory MPs loathe the idea, including six Cabinet Ministers.
Option 4 - Delay Brexit, change leader If Mrs May’s deal is defeated a fourth time, her political capital will be utterly spent and she will face a chorus of calls to quit. Brexit could be delayed for a new leader to be chosen and the Tories will go to the country with a fresh face in charge.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Are you saying that if they consider it to be a bad deal, they should still vote for it?
That's exactly what some of them did do .
So in your view is that right or wrong?
It amounts to a " debacle" , when some of them feel the need to do that , because of the desperately poor negotiating by May. Can understand it though , when some of them ( albeit a small number) are actually interested in delivering on Brexit.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
If that is the case, how could you possibly be aware that I hadn't answered a question?
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
If that is the case, how could you possibly be aware that I hadn't answered a question?
Fair guess , If i just quickly scroll back without reading in depth your nonsense and quite correct in this case. Anyway , perhaps you would like to answer the question .
"Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?"
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
If that is the case, how could you possibly be aware that I hadn't answered a question?
Fair guess , If i just quickly scroll back without reading in depth your nonsense and quite correct in this case. Anyway , perhaps you would like to answer the question .
"Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?"
You need to go back and have another look, this has been answered. While you are looking, you might want to answer some of your questions.
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
If that is the case, how could you possibly be aware that I hadn't answered a question?
Fair guess , If i just quickly scroll back without reading in depth your nonsense and quite correct in this case. Anyway , perhaps you would like to answer the question .
"Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?"
You need to go back and have another look, this has been answered. While you are looking, you might want to answer some of your questions.
Well I've just looked back and I see neither an answer to my question nor any unanswered questions from me, perhaps you would like to direct me to both. Off out shopping for a few hours, perhaps that will be long enough for you to actually fudge up an answer , maybe even optimistically , an answer which isn't a question .
Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?
Why would you have the audacity to point to one question that I hadn't answered, as I was busy playing poker, when you seem to ignore so many that are asked of you?
lol @ " audacity" .....I don't ignore anything , probably only read half of the things you type and even that's a struggle.
If that is the case, how could you possibly be aware that I hadn't answered a question?
Fair guess , If i just quickly scroll back without reading in depth your nonsense and quite correct in this case. Anyway , perhaps you would like to answer the question .
"Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?"
You need to go back and have another look, this has been answered. While you are looking, you might want to answer some of your questions.
Well I've just looked back and I see neither an answer to my question nor any unanswered questions from me, perhaps you would like to direct me to both.
I think it was totally expected.
I am not sure why anyone would have expected a different outcome taking into account the previous two votes.
I don't think that you can judge all MPs in the same way, some maintained that they changed their minds based on what is best for the country.
The fact that we seem to be left with what has been described as the worst of all worlds, as the only method by which we can leave, just probably sums up Brexit.
The fact that she will be back next week for a fourth vote is democratic, but a second referendum isn't, seems odd.
The remainers wont let a no deal happen, despite many leavers being in favour of it.
I am assuming you do realise that the Tories do not have an overall majority. They are completely reliant on the DUP to give them a majority to pass any legislation. They also have to rely on the ERG to vote with them. Unless they get both on their side, they cant pass anything. The DUP, and the hardline ERG members are both against this bill. The Labour Party seem to be promoting, their own deal, second referendum, or a General Election, depending on who you talk to. The one thing that they seem agreed on is that they are not voting for this bill. All the smaller opposition parties including TIG are in favour of another referendum, and none of them will therefore support this bill.
Any ideas?
You seem to have a very simplistic view of the whole thing.
I think you can say that politicians are voting in a particular way for many different reasons.
Many that are against the Withdrawal Agreement, have changed their mind in their words, to honour the referendum result, others have changed their minds to avoid no deal, and some because nothing better is available.
Others like the DUP, and some Tories will not vote in favour because they believe it jeopardises the Union.
I also agree with some of them that to vote for a Blind Brexit may prove to be stupid.
I am not sure that the Tories can be trusted.
The Political Declaration has now been separated from the Withdrawal Agreement, that doesn't make a huge difference because it wasn't legally binding anyway.
There is a fear among MPs that they could vote with the Government in the spirit of honouring the referendum, and Boris Johnson comes along as the new Tory leader, rips it up and does what he wants.
There is not a lot of trust going on at the moment.
The whole mess does sum up Brexit.
To say the remainers don't control the process is downright silly as 75% of the current MPs are remainers.
The only thing that has been proved to have a majority in Parliament is that no deal is not acceptable, and therefore wont happen.
Parliament currently seems unable to vote in favour of anything.
There are too many options.
Brexit was never going to be as simple as the leave side made out.
Parliament seems to be focusing on the different types of deals that could be negotiated, yet they will all require the Withdrawal Agreement to be passed.
What do you believe the solution is?
That's exactly what some of them did do . So in your view is that right or wrong?
What sort of stupid question is that ? Obviously I or anyone could pick an emotive topic such as this and it wouldn't take long to get a large flock of sheep to follow, especially when they don't even have to move from their armchairs to support it . Laughable !
Tory Esther McVey says poor families 'prioritise new phones over food' The former Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey, who was the face of Universal Credit, appeared to blame low-income families' wanting 'new phones' for poverty
Esther McVey caused outrage by appearing to blame families living on their breadline for their own poverty - saying they prioritise mobile phones over food.
DUP would rather REMAIN in the EU than risk Northern Ireland's place in the UK The DUP have propped up Theresa May's government since she failed to secure a majority in 2017
DUP’s Westminster Leader Nigel Dodds has said he would rather stay in the EU and remain rather than risk Northern Ireland’s place within the UK. Asked whether he could support a soft Brexit if that meant preserving Northern Ireland’s position within the UK, he said: “I would stay in the European Union and remain rather than risk Northern Ireland’s position. That’s how strongly I feel about the union.”
Petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU. The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now. Sign this petition 6,000,028 signatures
Revealed: 19 MEPs in Leave-voting constituencies campaigning for second referendum
At least 19 Members of the European Parliament representing Leave-voting constituencies in Britain are actively campaigning to overturn the Brexit referendum vote through a so-called “people’s vote”. Another nine MEPs, from Remain areas, also support the second vote, taking the total number to 28 politicians out of the 73 British seats in Brussels and Strasbourg, analysis carried out by The Sunday Telegraph found. “This shows a chasm of disconnect between self-absorbed Remainer politicians and the people they fail to represent,” said Nigel Farage, a MEP and former Ukip leader. He said the MEPs, who represent more than a third of total UK seats, had weakened Britain’s hand in the Brexit talks...
Comments
In the end, Iain Duncan Smith’s last minute decision to back the Withdrawal Agreement was not the catalyst that Theresa May had hoped for.
Following David Davis’s change of heart, reciprocated by Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Dominic Raab, Downing Street had been counting on the former Conservative leader and Brexit heavyweight swaying the majority of the European Research Group hardliners to back the deal.
But in the end the u-turns proved to be too little, too late. The third meaningful vote was lost by a majority of 58 on Friday, 28 of whom were staunch Tory leavers, joined by six so-called ‘rebel Remainiacs’.
The Telegraph has learned that Mr Duncan Smith held face to face talks
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/30/brexiteer-u-turns-proved-little-late-save-theresa-mays-deal/
Deputy leader’s comments come as polls show voters trust neither Corbyn nor May on Brexit
Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson has called on his party to “embrace” European elections in May, as well as the possibility of a general election, saying that if it goes into either contest pledging a confirmatory referendum it can beat the Tories.
His upbeat pre-election rallying call comes as MPs prepare to vote again on Monday on a second referendum, after the plan to hold one on any Brexit deal that passes through parliament won the most votes of any option considered by MPs in last Wednesday’s series of indicative votes.
Writing on theguardian.com, Watson says he is gearing up local members to select Labour candidates ready for the elections.
While he emphasises his respect for Labour MPs and members opposed to a referendum, he says the party has now come together on a policy “that can unite our members, voters, MPs and yes, the leadership too.”
Referring to Labour commitment to a policy under which any deal would have to be confirmed in a people’s vote he says: “This is a compromise position that provides a clear path to break the deadlock. Whether you voted leave, like the majority of people in my area did, or whether you voted remain, the current parliamentary paralysis works for no one.
“We now have until April 12th to either agree a new path to a viable Brexit deal, with an extension to Article 50 that means taking part in European elections, or crash out with no deal.
“I think Labour should embrace European elections just as we should welcome a general election that might get rid of this broken government. If we go into either contest with a positive policy on Brexit and say any final deal must be put back to the people, I am confident Labour can win. We already have a fund raised by local parties to pay for the campaign and I’ve asked our national executive committee to develop a plan to get grassroots members involved in selecting candidates.”
While supporters of a second referendum accept that the idea may not win majority support in the House of Commons on Monday, they believe it could still do so when tabled in the form of an amendment to any motion to approve a deal, or to legislation that will be needed to implement any withdrawal agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/30/tom-watson-labour-must-back-another-referendum-to-win-elections
EU officials expect leaders to demand a justification from Theresa May for a long Article 50 extension
EU leaders are prepared to let Britain delay Brexit again to allow time for a second referendum, The Independent understands.
After parliament rejected Theresa May’s deal for a third time, the bloc called a summit on 10 April – two days before the UK is on course to leave without a deal.
And senior Brussels officials familiar with leaders’ thinking say that barring a credible plan to get a majority for the withdrawal agreement, the UK would be given more time only if it was for another clear option such as a general election or a referendum.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-second-referendum-eu-revoke-article-50-a8846146.html
Public support for Labour party stands at 41 per cent, which is five points clear of Conservative party on 36
At election, Labour would be on course to win 307 seats - 19 short of majority, but could strike deal with SNP
Poll also revealed Boris Johnson has double the support of Sajid Javid to be PM, with 15 per cent versus six
Jeremy Corbyn would be poised on the threshold of Downing Street if Theresa May called a General Election, an exclusive Mail on Sunday poll has found.
After weeks of conflict in the Conservative Party, public support for Labour stands at 41 per cent, five points clear of the Tories on 36.
If repeated at an Election, Labour would be on course to win 307 seats, while the Conservatives would claim just 264.
Although Mr Corbyn would be 19 seats short of a majority, it would leave him in pole position to enter No 10 if he could strike an deal with the Scottish Nationalists.
Will she really risk it? The four options
Option 1 - May calls Election this week
After her 2017 Election disaster that saw Jeremy Corbyn wipe out her majority, the PM would be incredibly wary about going to the country again. But she knows that without a change to the numbers, the House of Commons will remain deadlocked.
Option 2 - Confidence vote sparks Election
If disgruntled Tories side with Labour in a vote of no confidence and Jeremy Corbyn is unable to form a government within 14 days, the country will be plunged into an Election anyway. Given that it looks inevitable, No 10 is split on whether to jump first.
Option 3 - PM accepts customs fudge
If Parliament orders the UK to stay in the customs union, Mrs May could be forced to abandon a cherished ‘red line’. Accepting it would blow up her party as hundreds of Tory MPs loathe the idea, including six Cabinet Ministers.
Option 4 - Delay Brexit, change leader
If Mrs May’s deal is defeated a fourth time, her political capital will be utterly spent and she will face a chorus of calls to quit. Brexit could be delayed for a new leader to be chosen and the Tories will go to the country with a fresh face in charge.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6868745/Jeremy-Corbyn-PM-calls-election-shock-poll-reveals-Labour-five-point-lead.html
Can understand it though , when some of them ( albeit a small number) are actually interested in delivering on Brexit.
Anyway , perhaps you would like to answer the question .
"Waiting patiently for you to tell us all why you don't think the whole thing is a debacle and if you are happy now the deal has been rejected for the 3rd time and there is a real chance of no deal ?"
Off out shopping for a few hours, perhaps that will be long enough for you to actually fudge up an answer , maybe even optimistically , an answer which isn't a question .
I think it was totally expected.
I am not sure why anyone would have expected a different outcome taking into account the previous two votes.
I don't think that you can judge all MPs in the same way, some maintained that they changed their minds based on what is best for the country.
The fact that we seem to be left with what has been described as the worst of all worlds, as the only method by which we can leave, just probably sums up Brexit.
The fact that she will be back next week for a fourth vote is democratic, but a second referendum isn't, seems odd.
The remainers wont let a no deal happen, despite many leavers being in favour of it.
I am assuming you do realise that the Tories do not have an overall majority.
They are completely reliant on the DUP to give them a majority to pass any legislation.
They also have to rely on the ERG to vote with them.
Unless they get both on their side, they cant pass anything.
The DUP, and the hardline ERG members are both against this bill.
The Labour Party seem to be promoting, their own deal, second referendum, or a General Election, depending on who you talk to.
The one thing that they seem agreed on is that they are not voting for this bill.
All the smaller opposition parties including TIG are in favour of another referendum, and none of them will therefore support this bill.
Any ideas?
You seem to have a very simplistic view of the whole thing.
I think you can say that politicians are voting in a particular way for many different reasons.
Many that are against the Withdrawal Agreement, have changed their mind in their words, to honour the referendum result, others have changed their minds to avoid no deal, and some because nothing better is available.
Others like the DUP, and some Tories will not vote in favour because they believe it jeopardises the Union.
I also agree with some of them that to vote for a Blind Brexit may prove to be stupid.
I am not sure that the Tories can be trusted.
The Political Declaration has now been separated from the Withdrawal Agreement, that doesn't make a huge difference because it wasn't legally binding anyway.
There is a fear among MPs that they could vote with the Government in the spirit of honouring the referendum, and Boris Johnson comes along as the new Tory leader, rips it up and does what he wants.
There is not a lot of trust going on at the moment.
The whole mess does sum up Brexit.
To say the remainers don't control the process is downright silly as 75% of the current MPs are remainers.
The only thing that has been proved to have a majority in Parliament is that no deal is not acceptable, and therefore wont happen.
Parliament currently seems unable to vote in favour of anything.
There are too many options.
Brexit was never going to be as simple as the leave side made out.
Parliament seems to be focusing on the different types of deals that could be negotiated, yet they will all require the Withdrawal Agreement to be passed.
What do you believe the solution is?
That's exactly what some of them did do .
So in your view is that right or wrong?
What sort of stupid question is that ? Obviously I or anyone could pick an emotive topic such as this and it wouldn't take long to get a large flock of sheep to follow, especially when they don't even have to move from their armchairs to support it . Laughable !
Go on then.
Specsavers?
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
The former Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey, who was the face of Universal Credit, appeared to blame low-income families' wanting 'new phones' for poverty
Esther McVey caused outrage by appearing to blame families living on their breadline for their own poverty - saying they prioritise mobile phones over food.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-esther-mcvey-suggests-poor-14210844
The DUP have propped up Theresa May's government since she failed to secure a majority in 2017
DUP’s Westminster Leader Nigel Dodds has said he would rather stay in the EU and remain rather than risk Northern Ireland’s place within the UK.
Asked whether he could support a soft Brexit if that meant preserving Northern Ireland’s position within the UK, he said: “I would stay in the European Union and remain rather than risk Northern Ireland’s position. That’s how strongly I feel about the union.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dup-would-remain-eu-risk-14206005
Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.
The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.
Sign this petition
6,000,028 signatures
At least 19 Members of the European Parliament representing Leave-voting constituencies in Britain are actively campaigning to overturn the Brexit referendum vote through a so-called “people’s vote”.
Another nine MEPs, from Remain areas, also support the second vote, taking the total number to 28 politicians out of the 73 British seats in Brussels and Strasbourg, analysis carried out by The Sunday Telegraph found.
“This shows a chasm of disconnect between self-absorbed Remainer politicians and the people they fail to represent,” said Nigel Farage, a MEP and former Ukip leader.
He said the MEPs, who represent more than a third of total UK seats, had weakened Britain’s hand in the Brexit talks...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/31/19-meps-representing-leave-voting-constituencies-campaigning/