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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120












    Warnings by police have not deterred the Mail on Sunday from publishing more leaked cables from Sir Kim Darroch.
    The paper argues that it is "fighting for free speech".
    To bolster its argument, it pictures the two contenders to be the next prime minister on its front page - both defending the right of the press to publish material in the public interest.



    One of the journalists behind the Mail on Sunday's story, Isabel Oakeshott, is the subject of the front page of The Sunday Times - which covers the police inquiry into the leaks.
    It says that she is in a relationship with Richard Tice - the MEP who is chairman of Nigel Farage's Brexit Party and it claims he has become embroiled in the leak scandal.
    The article says police believe that a pro-Brexit civil servant took the Darroch material to try to undermine officials who do not support leaving the EU.
    It also quotes an unnamed diplomat who suggests there are a lot of Brexit Party fingerprints on the disclosures. But the paper notes that both Ms Oakeshott and Mr Tice have denied that he played any role in the leak or the handling of the documents.

    The former Conservative foreign secretary, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, writing in the Observer, launches an attack on Boris Johnson for his treatment of Sir Kim Darroch.
    He says he can't think of a previous occasion where an ambassador has had to resign because he told the truth. He believes Mr Johnson's refusal to defend Sir Kim doesn't bode well if he becomes the next prime minister.
    And there's nothing like a threat to press freedom to get the leader writers going.
    The Mail on Sunday comment occupies a full page. It quotes Lord Northcliffe - the inventor of modern, popular newspapers, who said: "News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress".
    The Mail admits Sir Kim Darroch's emails "ignited a controversy in high politics" but questions the idea that the story resulted in "national damage".
    The paper thinks it's absurd that a truthful and accurate leak of significant material, enabling voters to be better informed, should be met by threats of prosecution.
    For The Sunday Times, the matter is simple - "We'll decide what to publish, not Scotland Yard".
    "Chilling", "unprecedented" and "heavy-handed" is the Sunday Telegraph's assessment of the warning issued to the media.



    The Sun on Sunday wonders whether Assistant Commissioner Basu has been holidaying in North Korea.
    The former editor of the Guardian, Alan Rusbridger, calls for classes in free speech at police college.
    But the Observer believes the Metropolitan Police performed a climb-down when the senior officer issued a second statement clarifying the force didn't want to stop the press from publishing stories.
    Meanwhile, the same paper says that two of the whistle-blowers who featured in the BBC Panorama programme about allegations of anti-Semitism in Labour intend to sue the party for defamation.
    They allege that in its response to the programme, Labour painted them as disaffected former officials who had falsely made deliberate, malicious representations. The party tells the paper that any legal action would be vigorously defended.
    The Observer also reports that Labour - which has complained to the BBC that the programme was "slanted" - is trying to force the corporation to remove it from the iPlayer.



    Some of the papers try to work out what a future Boris Johnson cabinet would look like. The Sunday People says that city insiders - who've been talking to Mr Johnson's team - believe the current Home Secretary, Sajid Javid, will become the next chancellor.
    And it tips the former Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, or the Brexiteer, Iain Duncan Smith to replace Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Secretary.
    The Mail on Sunday also thinks Mr Hunt will be demoted because his leadership campaign has infuriated Mr Johnson. And it claims the former Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, is being considered for No 11







  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Boris Johnson admits he doesn't know his own Brexit plan in car crash interview
    The Tory leadership hopeful tried to show off how much he knew about 'GATT 24' - and the BBC's Andrew Neil skewered him instantly



    Boris Johnson has admitted he doesn't know what is in his own Brexit plan in a car crash TV interview.

    The Tory leadership favourite came unstuck over his grand plan to leave the EU in a brutal grilling by the BBC's Andrew Neil.



    Mr Johnson wants to use a rule known as 'GATT 24' to maintain trade with the EU if we leave without agreement on October 31.
    Showing off to Mr Neil, he claimed he'd secure a "standstill" trade arrangement using Paragraph 5(b) of Article 24 of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.
    But Paragraph 5(c) - which comes straight afterwards - makes it clear the policy can't be used for a No Deal Brexit .
    That's because it says a "plan and schedule" must already be in place to form a customs union or free trade area, "within a reasonable length of time."

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-admits-doesnt-know-18130561
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Remainer defectors' threat to topple Boris on day ONE: Two Tory MPs could join Lib Dems and wipe out Government majority if Johnson becomes PM



    Mr Johnson (left) currently stands to inherit a working majority of four if, as expected, he becomes Prime Minister on July 24 - the day after the new Lib Dem leader succeeds Sir Vince Cable. Tory whips have been tipped off that if the favourite, Jo Swinson (inset), wins she will announce the defection of Tory MPs Philip Lee (top right) and Guto Bebb (bottom right) to coincide with Mr Johnson arriving in Downing Street
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Brexit: Campaigner Gina Miller threatens no deal court battle



    Anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller says she will take the government to court if the next PM tries to shut down Parliament to push through no deal.
    Ms Miller, who won a legal battle against ministers over Article 50, said the step would be "an abuse" of powers.
    She told Sky News she wanted to "defend Parliamentary sovereignty", not stop Brexit.
    Brexiteer MP Priti Patel said it was "not acceptable" to use the courts to try to tie the hands of MPs.
    Most MPs are against leaving the EU without a deal and could try to stop it from happening.
    Shutting down - or proroguing - Parliament could potentially provide a way for a prime minister to force through a no-deal Brexit against MPs' wishes.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48980408

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Brexit: Philip Hammond warns UK will lose control in no-deal scenario


    Ex Brexit Secretary David Davis told the programme that Whitehall never believed a no-deal Brexit would happen.

    Philip Hammond has warned the UK will not be able to control key elements of a no-deal Brexit.
    The chancellor told BBC Panorama that if the UK leaves without a deal, then the EU will control many of the levers - including what happens at the French port of Calais.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48978739

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120










    'Johnson's US trip'
    In other stories on the front pages, The Times says Boris Johnson wants to make resetting relations with President Trump one of his first acts in Downing Street by travelling to the US to negotiate a post-Brexit trade deal.
    According to the paper, he's ready to go as soon as possible if he wins the Conservative leadership contest to try to secure a limited agreement before the UK leaves the EU at the end of October.

    Trophy hunting
    The Daily Mirror launches a campaign to press the government to ban the import of the heads and furs of animals shot for pleasure. It describes the practice of "trophy hunting" as an abomination.
    Its front page has a picture of a couple sharing a kiss next to a slaughtered lion. "End this horror", the headline demands.
    A number of papers report that soaring numbers of NHS hospitals in England are charging disabled patients for parking, despite a pledge from ministers that they would end the rip-off.
    The Daily Mail says 155 hospitals charge disabled badge holders to park - up by a fifth since Jeremy Hunt vowed to reform the system in 2014 when he was health secretary.
    An inquiry has found that millions of elderly people in need of care are at the mercy of an unlicensed and unskilled workforce, according to the Daily Express.
    It says the professional body for carers is worried at a growing number who are advertising their services online, but have no training or qualifications and work cash in hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48985009







    No-deal Brexit is ‘fraught with risk’ and ‘everybody should be worried’, says former top civil servant
    ‘Everybody should be worried about what happens in a no-deal situation,’ Philip Rycroft says in interview with BBC Panorama



    The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) told the programme of their concern at the impact of a no-deal Brexit on security.

    Tim Mairs, PSNI assistant chief constable, said that Brexit could provide a recruitment “opportunity” for the New IRA and other dissident paramilitary groups.
    “We know that the New IRA and other groups continue to recruit people and we believe that Brexit provides an opportunity for them to encourage people to recruit,” he said.

    He added that, while the PSNI do not see any upsurge in recruitment or violence being driven specifically by Brexit at this stage, tariffs at the Irish border could create “new opportunities” for organised crime groups to exploit.

    Meanwhile, with the possibility of a no-deal Brexit on the cards, the chief executive of the Road Haulage Association has told the BBC that the transport secretary, Chris Grayling, tried to pressure him to stop speaking out following a private briefing in August 2018.

    Richard Burnett said that after his trade association issued a press release, Chris Grayling got in touch with Richard Burnett and left him a voicemail.
    “I’ve got to say how very disappointed I am ... I had intended to involve you closely in the planning over the next few months, but issuing a press release straight after meeting like that makes it much more difficult for me to do that,” Mr Grayling said in the voice note.
    Mr Burnett said he felt that Mr Grayling was “trying to silence an industry that’s trying to help government guide them”

    “My sense of that message was – either shut up or you don’t engage ... You either play ball with us or you won’t be part of the negotiations on behalf of the industry,” he said.

    In February, reports suggested that thousands of British lorry drivers face the prospect of being barred from entering the EU after missing out on permits that will be required after Brexit.


    Mr Burnett called the communications with the government over preparations a “frustrating process” and that they would have “failed” if his members end up in lorry parks in Kent.



    On Sunday, the National Farmers’ Union president Minette Batters warned that a no-deal Brexit would be “absolutely disastrous” for agriculture and could force shepherds to slaughter their flocks.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-risk-richard-rycroft-civil-servant-bbc-panorama-a8992256.html






  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Essexphil said:

    2 simple questios for you, Haysie:-

    1. Do you think any one race is more important than any other?

    2. On the assumption that your answer to 1 above is "no", can you please explain why any one race should have a definition in relation to racism that is different to any other race?

    I think anti-semitism should be judged by the same yardstick as every other race, and i will always question anyone who thinks otherwise.

    If the Labour Party wished to stop their members wearing green trousers, they would say just that.
    They would then spend the next 3 years arguing with members whether or not the definition of green included mint, turquoise, asparagus, chartreuse, emerald, etc., and get nowhere.
    Whereas a better leader might send a letter/email out to all members saying that all shades of green trousers were banned, listing in detail all the banned shades, and clearly stating that continuing to wear these trousers would result in immediate expulsion.
    This would result in the immediate rooting out of green trouser wearers, and make it clear that there was nowhere to hide.
    Also, this clarity would convince those that were adamant about continuing to wear the offending trousers that they might as well leave the party, before they were expelled.

    Progress would be immediate, and before very long all green trouser wearers would be eliminated from the party.

    The problem I have with their difficulties is that antisemitism is illegal.

    People go to court, and get jailed for it, without it taking years.

    It should be a very easy problem to solve.




    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and ...
    antisemitism.uk/neo-nazi-antisemite-jailed-for...
    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and terrorism offences Neo-Nazi antisemite Sean Creighton, 45, of Enfield, has been jailed for five years following an investigation by the Metropolitan Police Service’s Counter Terrorism Command.

    Burglar with antisemitism conviction jailed for 14 days over ...
    antisemitism.uk/burglar-with-antisemitism...
    Campaign Against Antisemitism is a volunteer-led charity dedicated to exposing and countering antisemitism through education and zero-tolerance enforcement of the law.

    Former British soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges ...

    UK: Former soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2018/05/uk...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges against Jeremy Bedford-Turner, but reversed the decision after a judicial review was launched by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).

    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2017/02/uk-man...
    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing things at Jews Via ITV : A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted anti-Semitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler.

    Comic Dieudonne given jail sentence for anti-Semitism - bbc.com
    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34921071
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala is sentenced to two months in jail by a Belgian court for anti-Semitic comments made in Belgium.

    Racist who claimed Nazi salute at anti-Semitism rally was ...
    metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/racist-who-claimed-nazi...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally and then tried to claim it was ‘freedom of speech’ has been jailed. Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted: ‘Child killers’ and ‘You ...

    Man jailed for hurling antisemitic abuse - CFCA
    antisemitism.org.il/111769
    A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted antisemitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler. A number of ...

    Racist who gave Nazi salutes during anti-Semitism rally is ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6392819/Racist...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally then tried to claim it was 'freedom of speech' has been jailed. Catering assistant Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted 'child killers' and 'you ...

    French comedian Dieudonne is jailed for making anti-Semitic ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336097/French...
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala has been jailed for two months by a Belgian court for making anti-Semitic jokes during a comedy show in 2012. Dieudonne, who is known for his ...


  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120








    Many of Tuesday's papers feature the row President Trump is embroiled in over his attacks on four congresswomen of colour;.
    "Boris blasts Trump" is the headline in the Daily Mail, which says Boris Johnson "rounded" on the US president in Monday night's Conservative leadership debate.
    The Daily Mirror, though, is deeply unimpressed that Mr Johnson - as well as his rival Jeremy Hunt - stopped short of calling Mr Trump a racist. It describes the president as a "loathsome oaf" who Mr Johnson "sides with at every opportunity".
    The Guardian quotes a former Republican aide, Kurt Bardella, who draws a starker conclusion. The reason the party has said nothing over this, and previous incidents, is that they "agree with Mr Trump and his racism."



    In its analysis, the Times suggests Mr Trump's outburst has less to do with his own supporters and more to do with trying to catch the attention of people inclined to back his political rivals.
    Polling indicates that the four women he criticised, and their left-wing politics, are unpopular with white, less well-educated Democrats - exactly the demographic his previous electoral success was based on.
    Many of the papers also take a closer look at Monday's Tory leadership head-to-head.
    In its leader column, the Sun - which hosted the event - describes it as "feisty, fascinating and revealing".
    Mr Johnson remains the favourite - it declares - but both men would make a "decent PM"



    The Daily Telegraph leads on a report, commissioned by the armed forces, which has found senior male officers are "20 years out of touch" on racism, sexism and bullying.
    It says the review speaks of "a pack mentality" among "middle-aged men in positions of influence."
    One retired senior officer tells the paper he "winces" at the suggestion that a "champion" for changing the military's culture is needed.
    But, in its editorial, the Telegraph concludes that the behaviour of the past is no longer acceptable - especially given the recruitment crisis the forces are facing.
    Government figures reported in the Times show that - for the first time - there are more black, Asian and minority ethnic youths in young offender institutions and secure units than white people.
    Youth justice campaigners claim it demonstrates the extent to which the criminal justice system is "disproportionately propelling black and minority ethnic children into prison".
    The Ministry of Justice tells the Times the issues behind the problem begin long before they enter the criminal justice system - and are being actively investigated.

    'Toxic threat'
    The Daily Mail leads on a report by the Commons environmental audit committee which warns of a "toxic threat to babies in the womb" posed by chemicals commonly found in the home.
    The potential impact on health is "frightening", the paper says, with British women having the world's second highest rate of flame retardant in their breast milk.
    The Daily Mirror says food banks fear this summer will be their busiest yet - as parents who rely on free school meals in term time "struggle to feed their kids during the holidays."
    The Trussell Trust - which operates many food banks - says it will do what it can to help, but no charity can replace the dignity of having enough money for the basics.



    The Financial Times focuses on Sports Direct delaying the publication of its full year results because its auditors refused to sign off the accounts.
    The paper says it's "dealt a blow" to owner Mike Ashley's "assault on the high street" which has included buying House of Fraser and Evans Cycles.
    One analyst says it's a serious issue because delaying financial results tends to lead to investors "running for the hills"



    Finally, the Daily Telegraph reports that a number of smart meters supplied by the firm Bulb have randomly switched from English to Welsh - requiring users to navigate a five-step menu in Welsh to rectify the problem.
    Bulb, which has 1.3 million customers, says the problem only affects one in 200 of its smart meters and is the result of a software issue.
    However even if those customers are familiar with Welsh they risk being confused - with one person who speaks the language saying the instructions are so badly translated as to be "gibberish."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48998449










  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,013
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    2 simple questios for you, Haysie:-

    1. Do you think any one race is more important than any other?

    2. On the assumption that your answer to 1 above is "no", can you please explain why any one race should have a definition in relation to racism that is different to any other race?

    I think anti-semitism should be judged by the same yardstick as every other race, and i will always question anyone who thinks otherwise.

    If the Labour Party wished to stop their members wearing green trousers, they would say just that.
    They would then spend the next 3 years arguing with members whether or not the definition of green included mint, turquoise, asparagus, chartreuse, emerald, etc., and get nowhere.
    Whereas a better leader might send a letter/email out to all members saying that all shades of green trousers were banned, listing in detail all the banned shades, and clearly stating that continuing to wear these trousers would result in immediate expulsion.
    This would result in the immediate rooting out of green trouser wearers, and make it clear that there was nowhere to hide.
    Also, this clarity would convince those that were adamant about continuing to wear the offending trousers that they might as well leave the party, before they were expelled.

    Progress would be immediate, and before very long all green trouser wearers would be eliminated from the party.

    The problem I have with their difficulties is that antisemitism is illegal.

    People go to court, and get jailed for it, without it taking years.

    It should be a very easy problem to solve.




    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and ...
    antisemitism.uk/neo-nazi-antisemite-jailed-for...
    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and terrorism offences Neo-Nazi antisemite Sean Creighton, 45, of Enfield, has been jailed for five years following an investigation by the Metropolitan Police Service’s Counter Terrorism Command.

    Burglar with antisemitism conviction jailed for 14 days over ...
    antisemitism.uk/burglar-with-antisemitism...
    Campaign Against Antisemitism is a volunteer-led charity dedicated to exposing and countering antisemitism through education and zero-tolerance enforcement of the law.

    Former British soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges ...

    UK: Former soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2018/05/uk...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges against Jeremy Bedford-Turner, but reversed the decision after a judicial review was launched by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).

    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2017/02/uk-man...
    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing things at Jews Via ITV : A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted anti-Semitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler.

    Comic Dieudonne given jail sentence for anti-Semitism - bbc.com
    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34921071
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala is sentenced to two months in jail by a Belgian court for anti-Semitic comments made in Belgium.

    Racist who claimed Nazi salute at anti-Semitism rally was ...
    metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/racist-who-claimed-nazi...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally and then tried to claim it was ‘freedom of speech’ has been jailed. Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted: ‘Child killers’ and ‘You ...

    Man jailed for hurling antisemitic abuse - CFCA
    antisemitism.org.il/111769
    A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted antisemitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler. A number of ...

    Racist who gave Nazi salutes during anti-Semitism rally is ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6392819/Racist...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally then tried to claim it was 'freedom of speech' has been jailed. Catering assistant Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted 'child killers' and 'you ...

    French comedian Dieudonne is jailed for making anti-Semitic ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336097/French...
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala has been jailed for two months by a Belgian court for making anti-Semitic jokes during a comedy show in 2012. Dieudonne, who is known for his ...


    Just like Brexit.

    Do you see any irony in saying the Labour Party should just accept something and implement it in a 273 page diatribe refusing to accept that Democracy (rightly or wrongly) has given a decision you do not agree with?
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    2 simple questios for you, Haysie:-

    1. Do you think any one race is more important than any other?

    2. On the assumption that your answer to 1 above is "no", can you please explain why any one race should have a definition in relation to racism that is different to any other race?

    I think anti-semitism should be judged by the same yardstick as every other race, and i will always question anyone who thinks otherwise.

    If the Labour Party wished to stop their members wearing green trousers, they would say just that.
    They would then spend the next 3 years arguing with members whether or not the definition of green included mint, turquoise, asparagus, chartreuse, emerald, etc., and get nowhere.
    Whereas a better leader might send a letter/email out to all members saying that all shades of green trousers were banned, listing in detail all the banned shades, and clearly stating that continuing to wear these trousers would result in immediate expulsion.
    This would result in the immediate rooting out of green trouser wearers, and make it clear that there was nowhere to hide.
    Also, this clarity would convince those that were adamant about continuing to wear the offending trousers that they might as well leave the party, before they were expelled.

    Progress would be immediate, and before very long all green trouser wearers would be eliminated from the party.

    The problem I have with their difficulties is that antisemitism is illegal.

    People go to court, and get jailed for it, without it taking years.

    It should be a very easy problem to solve.




    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and ...
    antisemitism.uk/neo-nazi-antisemite-jailed-for...
    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and terrorism offences Neo-Nazi antisemite Sean Creighton, 45, of Enfield, has been jailed for five years following an investigation by the Metropolitan Police Service’s Counter Terrorism Command.

    Burglar with antisemitism conviction jailed for 14 days over ...
    antisemitism.uk/burglar-with-antisemitism...
    Campaign Against Antisemitism is a volunteer-led charity dedicated to exposing and countering antisemitism through education and zero-tolerance enforcement of the law.

    Former British soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges ...

    UK: Former soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2018/05/uk...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges against Jeremy Bedford-Turner, but reversed the decision after a judicial review was launched by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).

    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2017/02/uk-man...
    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing things at Jews Via ITV : A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted anti-Semitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler.

    Comic Dieudonne given jail sentence for anti-Semitism - bbc.com
    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34921071
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala is sentenced to two months in jail by a Belgian court for anti-Semitic comments made in Belgium.

    Racist who claimed Nazi salute at anti-Semitism rally was ...
    metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/racist-who-claimed-nazi...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally and then tried to claim it was ‘freedom of speech’ has been jailed. Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted: ‘Child killers’ and ‘You ...

    Man jailed for hurling antisemitic abuse - CFCA
    antisemitism.org.il/111769
    A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted antisemitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler. A number of ...

    Racist who gave Nazi salutes during anti-Semitism rally is ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6392819/Racist...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally then tried to claim it was 'freedom of speech' has been jailed. Catering assistant Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted 'child killers' and 'you ...

    French comedian Dieudonne is jailed for making anti-Semitic ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336097/French...
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala has been jailed for two months by a Belgian court for making anti-Semitic jokes during a comedy show in 2012. Dieudonne, who is known for his ...


    Just like Brexit.

    Do you see any irony in saying the Labour Party should just accept something and implement it in a 273 page diatribe refusing to accept that Democracy (rightly or wrongly) has given a decision you do not agree with?
    You will have to explain further.
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,013
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    2 simple questios for you, Haysie:-

    1. Do you think any one race is more important than any other?

    2. On the assumption that your answer to 1 above is "no", can you please explain why any one race should have a definition in relation to racism that is different to any other race?

    I think anti-semitism should be judged by the same yardstick as every other race, and i will always question anyone who thinks otherwise.

    If the Labour Party wished to stop their members wearing green trousers, they would say just that.
    They would then spend the next 3 years arguing with members whether or not the definition of green included mint, turquoise, asparagus, chartreuse, emerald, etc., and get nowhere.
    Whereas a better leader might send a letter/email out to all members saying that all shades of green trousers were banned, listing in detail all the banned shades, and clearly stating that continuing to wear these trousers would result in immediate expulsion.
    This would result in the immediate rooting out of green trouser wearers, and make it clear that there was nowhere to hide.
    Also, this clarity would convince those that were adamant about continuing to wear the offending trousers that they might as well leave the party, before they were expelled.

    Progress would be immediate, and before very long all green trouser wearers would be eliminated from the party.

    The problem I have with their difficulties is that antisemitism is illegal.

    People go to court, and get jailed for it, without it taking years.

    It should be a very easy problem to solve.




    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and ...
    antisemitism.uk/neo-nazi-antisemite-jailed-for...
    Neo-Nazi antisemite jailed for five years over hate crime and terrorism offences Neo-Nazi antisemite Sean Creighton, 45, of Enfield, has been jailed for five years following an investigation by the Metropolitan Police Service’s Counter Terrorism Command.

    Burglar with antisemitism conviction jailed for 14 days over ...
    antisemitism.uk/burglar-with-antisemitism...
    Campaign Against Antisemitism is a volunteer-led charity dedicated to exposing and countering antisemitism through education and zero-tolerance enforcement of the law.

    Former British soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jeremy...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges ...

    UK: Former soldier jailed for antisemitic speech where he ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2018/05/uk...
    A former soldier has been jailed for a speech where he incited people to “free England from Jewish control”. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) initially decided against bringing charges against Jeremy Bedford-Turner, but reversed the decision after a judicial review was launched by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).

    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing ...
    antisemitism-europe.blogspot.com/2017/02/uk-man...
    UK: Man jailed for hurling anti-Semitic abuse, throwing things at Jews Via ITV : A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted anti-Semitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler.

    Comic Dieudonne given jail sentence for anti-Semitism - bbc.com
    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34921071
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala is sentenced to two months in jail by a Belgian court for anti-Semitic comments made in Belgium.

    Racist who claimed Nazi salute at anti-Semitism rally was ...
    metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/racist-who-claimed-nazi...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally and then tried to claim it was ‘freedom of speech’ has been jailed. Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted: ‘Child killers’ and ‘You ...

    Man jailed for hurling antisemitic abuse - CFCA
    antisemitism.org.il/111769
    A 31-year-old Jewish man reported verbal abuse after a suspect in a van shouted antisemitic comments at him - including references to Adolf Hitler. A number of ...

    Racist who gave Nazi salutes during anti-Semitism rally is ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6392819/Racist...
    A racist who gave Nazi salutes during an anti-Semitism rally then tried to claim it was 'freedom of speech' has been jailed. Catering assistant Joseph Brogan, 27, shouted 'child killers' and 'you ...

    French comedian Dieudonne is jailed for making anti-Semitic ...
    www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336097/French...
    Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala has been jailed for two months by a Belgian court for making anti-Semitic jokes during a comedy show in 2012. Dieudonne, who is known for his ...


    Just like Brexit.

    Do you see any irony in saying the Labour Party should just accept something and implement it in a 273 page diatribe refusing to accept that Democracy (rightly or wrongly) has given a decision you do not agree with?
    You will have to explain further.
    It's not exactly rocket science.

    The people spoke, unequivocally, that they wished to leave the EU in 2016. You have spent 273 pages in this thread alone refusing to accept that 2016 happened. You believe that the country should keep voting until they get to the "right" answer, without ever implementing the will of the people.

    Yet you believe that the Labour Party should implement things without delay. You believe that it is simple. How simple is "Leave or Remain"? But you see no irony in these 2 positions.

    In 1 case it is simple and only a fool wouldn't implement it. In the other the question was too simple and must never be implemented.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    edited July 2019


    It's not exactly rocket science.

    The people spoke, unequivocally, that they wished to leave the EU in 2016. You have spent 273 pages in this thread alone refusing to accept that 2016 happened. You believe that the country should keep voting until they get to the "right" answer, without ever implementing the will of the people.

    I am aware that the leave vote won in 2016. Although I would dispute that this victory was gained by honest means.

    I would also dispute that the vote was unequivocal, as although a small majority
    voted in favour of leaving the referendum provided no clarity as to the terms that we would leave under.

    All the difficulties since the referendum have related to these terms.

    I think that our country would benefit from a close trading relationship with the EU, after we have left, and would happily accept a Norway plus a customs union.

    I have said many times that I have felt that a second referendum would provide a solution, in the light of Parliament not being able to find one.

    I have maintained that a referendum may not provide the best solution, but at least it would be a solution.

    I suggested the other day that the threat of a referendum, could be used to force a deal through.

    There still doesn't seem to be a likely solution on the horizon.

    Many leave voters say they knew what they were voting for. This is not possible as they still don't know what they are getting.

    I think you are trying to over simplify the current situation.

    Yes a small majority voted in favour of leaving, yet many Brexiteers are adamantly against the no deal that has become a more likely outcome.


    There is probably a huge majority of the electorate that aren't in favour of leaving without a deal.

    Both Tory leadership candidates say they are prepared to leave without a deal in October. What percentage of the electorate will consider this outcome as the will of the people?

    Would this really be considered democratic?

    Many people think that this would be a disaster.

    The will of the people was not to vote for a disaster, and may also have changed during the 3 years that have followed.

    So the EU say no more negotiations, and our prospective new leaders are saying the alternative to this is no deal in October.

    How do you relate this to the will of the people?


    It seems that more members of the Tory Party, the small number of people that are in the process of electing our new PM, are now more prepared to accept the disaster that is no deal, due to their increasing frustration in the Tory Partys handling of Brexit, and the threat posed by the Brexit Party.

    The rest of us which are the overwhelming majority, will just have to lump it, in the name of democracy, and the will of the people.








    Yet you believe that the Labour Party should implement things without delay. You believe that it is simple. How simple is "Leave or Remain"? But you see no irony in these 2 positions.








    My criticism of the Labour Party, has been about their ineffective leadership, sitting on fences, not providing any meaningful opposition to the Government, not implementing the policy which was voted on by a huge majority of their members at last years conference, despite their claims of being democratic, and their so called constructive ambiguity.

    The majority of Labour MPs, members, and voters favour remain so how can they be democratic and not represent them.

    You keep throwing up democracy. How does this democracy work exactly when considering the Labour Party?

    The country voted by a small majority to leave.

    Yet 70% of labour voters are in favour of remaining, 78% of their membership voted for a second referendum last year, and a majority of their MPs favour remain.

    Who do they represent?

    On top of this, many of their MPs ignore the party whip, time and time again, with impunity.


    In 1 case it is simple and only a fool wouldn't implement it. In the other the question was too simple and must never be implemented.

    If the Labour Party is democratic they should represent their members/voters, rather than sitting on the fence.
    The leader should feel obligated to do this, rather than hide under the sofa.
    If we had a back to the future car, I don't think we would have had the referendum, or at least had a better question.



    If you look at where we are now.

    The EU have stopped negotiating.

    Both leadership candidates say they haven't.

    Both have ripped up the Withdrawal Agreement including the backstop.

    Both have said we will leave in October.

    Boris has said we wont be paying our bill.

    He expects the EU to still negotiate.

    He tells lies about our trade from November onwards.

    Both of them lie about no deal repercussions.

    They both seem to be prioritising their own ambitions, and the Tory Party, rather than the Union, and the country.

    I find little democracy in all this.

    There is no doubt that a referendum would provide a better solution.

    Maybe the threat of a referendum might concentrate minds enough, to get a deal through.

    Do you think that the democratic answer is leaving with no deal?

    If not, what is the democratic solution?


    If the country voted in favour of 63 year old committing suicide, I wouldn't do it despite it being the will of the people.


    Other possible complications.

    A couple of Tories could resign and collapse the Government.

    A number of Tories have threatened to vote against the Government in a no confidence vote in order to avoid no deal.

    A general election and another minority Government.

    A general election and a Labour Government. Labour want to negotiate the own deal, so we could end up back here, in 3 years time.


    I think we are more likely to have a general election than no deal, but who knows where we would go from there, all in the name of democracy and the will of the people.
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,013
    There you go again.

    A massive wall of text.

    I'm not oversimplifying it. Democracy is where the majority decide what happens.
    Naturally, I would prefer the same ways forward as you. Trouble is, the minority doesn't get to choose.

    Perfectly democratic to have a referendum on HOW we leave. But we have had one on IF, and the answer was yes, we leave.

    We have already spent 3 years doing nothing. Your "solution" is to pretend the first vote didn't happen, and have a 2nd. How is that a "solution"? All it will do is reopen old wounds. Quite apart from the fact that it will take the best part of ANOTHER year failing to carry out the result of the last vote.

    And we will undoubtedly face the biggest threat to our country since at least the 1940s. Once you promise the country that you will abide by a result, you have to do exactly that. Unless you want Farage to win the next election without anyone with any idea how to actually run the country.

    If people had been campaigning properly in 2016, or campaigning effectively since as to HOW we leave (rather than denying history), perhaps we wouldn't be in this unholy mess.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Essexphil said:

    There you go again.


    Really



    A massive wall of text.


    Not a Great Wall of China massive.



    I'm not oversimplifying it. Democracy is where the majority decide what happens.
    Naturally, I would prefer the same ways forward as you. Trouble is, the minority doesn't get to choose.


    Nor does the majority. Parliament get to choose, or not choose.



    Perfectly democratic to have a referendum on HOW we leave. But we have had one on IF, and the answer was yes, we leave.


    Doesn't seem likely.

    Would the fact that there now maybe a majority in favour of remaining, make a difference?

    We have already spent 3 years doing nothing. Your "solution" is to pretend the first vote didn't happen, and have a 2nd. How is that a "solution"? All it will do is reopen old wounds. Quite apart from the fact that it will take the best part of ANOTHER year failing to carry out the result of the last vote.


    A referendum would apparently take 6 months to organise, and implement.

    The one unique thing that a referendum could accomplish is that it would allow Parliament to implement what the majority is now in favour of.


    A snap election may send us back to square one.

    And we will undoubtedly face the biggest threat to our country since at least the 1940s. Once you promise the country that you will abide by a result, you have to do exactly that. Unless you want Farage to win the next election without anyone with any idea how to actually run the country.


    Farage is a threat while it remains unresolved.


    If people had been campaigning properly in 2016, or campaigning effectively since as to HOW we leave (rather than denying history), perhaps we wouldn't be in this unholy mess.


    The repercussions of a disastrous no deal Brexit, may present a bigger threat.

    Nevertheless we are in the mess.

    Frustration may result in a disastrous outcome.

    Campaigners are still lying.

    A deal has never seemed less likely than it is now.



    Nothing you have suggested has offered a solution. Your posts would have true at any time during the last 3 years.

    A referendum is a solution.

    Hope the height of the wall suits you better.

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Grieve: senior Tories may have to vote down Johnson government



    Former cabinet ministers could be among those who feel they have no choice but to vote down a Boris Johnson administration in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit, Dominic Grieve has said.
    The former attorney general said it was significant that both Johnson and his rival, Jeremy Hunt, had rejected any prospect of compromise on the backstop at a Sun leadership hustings on Monday night.
    Johnson and Hunt declared the Northern Ireland backstop “dead” and ruled out trying to tweak it, saying it was no good to have a time limit on the backstop or a way of the UK exiting it unilaterally – even though Eurosceptics had previously indicated they could vote for such compromises.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/grieve-senior-tories-may-have-to-vote-down-johnson-government/ar-AAEoBeZ?ocid=spartanntp
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,013
    Just checking, Haysie.

    So your position is that nothing has happened in the 3 years since the democratic vote. This is caused by Parliament being unable to understand the word Leave, or agree on its method.

    Your solution is not in any way to attack the rabid Leavers/Remainers who refuse to compromise. No, it is to revisit the only clear bit in the whole sorry process, whereupon all the problem bits will magically disappear.

    Have you been smoking the same substances as half the Cabinet? :)

    I believe this Government has backed us into a position where we have no alternative but to leave without a deal. Hopefully, the ensuing chaos will concentrate minds and we can actually move forward.

    The saddest bit of this mess is that politicians claim that the best way to ensure we govern ourselves is to suspend Parliament. Last person to try that was Charles 1-it didn't end well ;)
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Essexphil said:

    Just checking, Haysie.

    So your position is that nothing has happened in the 3 years since the democratic vote. This is caused by Parliament being unable to understand the word Leave, or agree on its method.


    I think you are over simplifying again.

    I genuinely believe that some of our politicians have had the countrys best interests at heart.

    Others haven't.

    Amazingly the hardline Eurosceptics in the ERG, in partnership with the DUP, stopped us leaving, by refusing to vote for the deal.

    We are now, according to the polls a remainer electorate.

    No deal, did not figure in the referendum campaign, and even though it looks more likely than ever, I still don't think it will happen.

    However, if it did, how would that go down with the will of the people?

    What would that say about our democracy?




    Your solution is not in any way to attack the rabid Leavers/Remainers who refuse to compromise. No, it is to revisit the only clear bit in the whole sorry process, whereupon all the problem bits will magically disappear.


    My attacking anyone will not help the cause.

    My support of referendum was only because it would provide a solution.

    There is not an alternative solution in sight


    Have you been smoking the same substances as half the Cabinet? :)


    Packed up smoking, I am a vaper.


    I believe this Government has backed us into a position where we have no alternative but to leave without a deal. Hopefully, the ensuing chaos will concentrate minds and we can actually move forward.


    I believe Brexit is a series of choices, but each benefit involves obligations. This was never made clear, and our side just want the benefits without committing to the obligations.

    I think we are currently going backwards.


    The saddest bit of this mess is that politicians claim that the best way to ensure we govern ourselves is to suspend Parliament. Last person to try that was Charles 1-it didn't end well ;)

    Boris may become the PM that serves for the shortest time in history.

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Essexphil said:

    Just checking, Haysie.

    So your position is that nothing has happened in the 3 years since the democratic vote. This is caused by Parliament being unable to understand the word Leave, or agree on its method.

    Your solution is not in any way to attack the rabid Leavers/Remainers who refuse to compromise. No, it is to revisit the only clear bit in the whole sorry process, whereupon all the problem bits will magically disappear.

    Have you been smoking the same substances as half the Cabinet? :)

    I believe this Government has backed us into a position where we have no alternative but to leave without a deal. Hopefully, the ensuing chaos will concentrate minds and we can actually move forward.

    The saddest bit of this mess is that politicians claim that the best way to ensure we govern ourselves is to suspend Parliament. Last person to try that was Charles 1-it didn't end well ;)

    In which way do you think they could, or should compromise?
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120














    Allies of Boris Johnson tell the Times that planning is under way to hold a general election as early as next summer - because they believe Labour is in "no fit state" to fight a contest.
    A member of Mr Johnson's team says there is a desire to "get this done" while Labour is divided under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.
    They are reportedly planning a recruitment and funding drive for the Conservative Party's campaign machine, in anticipation of a vote.
    Several papers highlight yesterday's fall in the value of sterling, after comments by the two Conservative leadership contenders were perceived as increasing the risk of a no-deal Brexit.
    City AM says Jeremy Hunt and Mr Johnson's pledges to abandon the Irish backstop dragged the pound to a two-year low against the dollar.



    The Financial Times quotes an EU diplomat who says Mr Johnson is living in a "fantasy world" if he thinks Brussels will accept the policy.
    City AM says markets were spooked further after it was reported Mr Johnson was considering shutting down Parliament in October, to prevent MPs from blocking a no deal. Friends of Mr Johnson tell the FT that is untrue, insisting: "We want a deal."
    The Guardian examines Mr Johnson's record as mayor of London.
    Former colleagues tell the paper he ignored expert advice about a string of high-profile projects that left taxpayers with a billion-pound bill - such as a fleet of new buses widely criticised for being too hot.
    "He could be incredibly profligate for the country," says one, concluding: "He's great on rhetoric but lousy on delivery".
    PM candidates' backstop remarks 'significant'
    PM candidates' backstop words 'dangerous'
    The Daily Mail publishes a list of demands for the next prime minister, with the aim of stopping what it calls the "scandalous injustice" of families having to sell their homes to pay for dementia care.
    The Mail says it is an issue affecting millions and in a further insult, many then effectively subsidise council-funding places in residential homes.The paper wants a cross-party group set up to tackle the problem, with all funding options under consideration

    Industry sources cite the example of Dirty Dancing, where a performer apparently had to stop making an entrance through the stalls because of groping by hen parties.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-49011906







  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,120
    Tory MP compares members to Taliban and says colleagues too afraid to speak out over Brexit
    Dominic Grieve says no-deal Brexit 'unacceptable to a 'substantial number' of Conservative MPs


    A senior Tory MP has compared Conservative grassroots members to the Taliban and warned that MPs are afraid to speak out over Brexit due to fears of being deselected.
    Dominic Grieve, the former attorney general, argued that there was Conservative support for a second referendum but some MPs were reluctant to act following confidence motions against several pro-EU Tories.

    Speaking at an event in London, Mr Grieve said Boris Johnson had been "radicalised" over Brexit, leaving a Final Say referendum as the only credible option to thwart a disorderly exit from the EU in the autumn.



    His comments came after Mr Johnson told a leadership hustings that the Irish backstop proposal was "dead" and vowed to scrap it from any Brexit deal.

    Mr Grieve, who has led a string of Brexit rebellions, said there was a "substantial number" of Conservative MPs for whom "no-deal is completely unacceptable" but admitted that there was a lot of "can-kicking" underway.

    Mr Grieve said the Tory frontrunner's pledge to scrap the backstop were an example of how the leadership race has been "played to a tune of growing extremism".
    He said: "When challenged and confronted he radicalised even further and excluded any possibility of trying to negotiate some way out of the backstop at all. It had to go in its totality.
    "The consequence of that is make it the choices starker and starker."



    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-dominic-grieve-taliban-boris-johnson-irish-border-backstop-deal-a9006396.html



    Labour peers tell Corbyn: you have failed test of leadership
    More than 60 party members in Lords take out advert attacking leader over antisemitism




    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/tom-watson-backs-labour-motion-auto-exclude-racism


    Liam Fox wants children to learn about global trade. But it’s Brexiters who need the lessons
    The trade secretary is slowly catching up with simple facts that should have punctured the Brexit fantasy years ago




    International trade secretary Liam Fox has shown us what happens when one of the leaders of the revolution spends three subsequent years looking at paperwork. The fantasy lives – just – but must now inhabit a lever-arch file outlining everything the UK still doesn’t understand about global trade.
    In recent weeks, dyed-in-the-wool Brexiter Fox has warned against no deal, explained why Boris Johnson cannot use Gatt article 24 to unilaterally implement a deal with the EU, and pointed out that we cannot negotiate a new package with the US before Brexit has taken place.
    The reason for his newfound pragmatism was perhaps revealed by Monday’s announcement that the government is seeking to train 12 new professional trade negotiators, and Fox’s declaration that trade should be taught on the national curriculum. So there we have it: the government has discovered that trade depends on rules, and almost nobody in Britain knows what they are.

    But the demand for better trade education was revealing, because it illuminates one of the key problems with Brexit: it depends not on dreams but facts.

    What, then, should we add to this new curriculum? The first lesson is that trade is not about taking back control. Indeed, the opposite is true. Unless you wish to force your goods and services on others, modern trade arrangements revolve around common laws and conventions. That champion of free-trade Brexiters, the World Trade Organization, is (unlike the EU) an unelected body that sets the basic rules of everyday commerce. Countries must, for example, set limits on tariffs and share quotas. Because discrimination is forbidden, the UK will have to apply its tariffs to all countries equally. These rules may be described as pooling sovereignty. Certainly, countries are free to organise trade deals in which they can eliminate tariffs altogether. These also require a legal agreement to prevent one country flouting shared rules or acting uncompetitively or unfairly, and this also limits sovereignty. If one member later “reasserts” it, by pulling out of the agreement, it must face negative economic consequences.


    The second lesson is gravity. The flow of trade depends on both size and distance. The US and EU have similar GDPs, but we trade more with the EU because it is nearer. Indeed, our trade with individual EU countries is significantly greater than with many of the world’s largest economies. Our volume of trade with Ireland is more than 200% greater than that with India – 110% more with Germany than China.


    The third lesson is that trade is about power, but the power you have now, not the one you remember. The EU as a bloc negotiates successful trade deals because it has the clout of more than 500 million consumers behind it and can afford to walk away from a deal rather than make overly painful compromises. Within the EU, power and resources also matter. Germany exports more to India, South Africa and Australia than we do, despite our Commonwealth and language ties, because it is larger, richer and produces more things that people want to buy – not because it imagines itself to be great or focuses on a mythologised history.


    The fourth lesson is that trade is about reciprocity, and listening to the concerns of your partners. If you show a willingness to compromise on things you want, engage in good faith and allow others to assert their interests, you may be able to agree deals more quickly. If, however, you simply arrive with a checklist (a single market in goods, for instance) without taking into account the other partner’s wishes (upholding the basic principles of the EU and the Good Friday agreement, say), you may get stuck.


    Perhaps the most important lesson about trade is that there is more to life than trade. The UK’s most basic error was to assume that its status and statistics would speak for themselves. But in the end it didn’t matter that Britain was an important country, or that the EU had a trade surplus it wanted to preserve: Brussels still wasn’t going to give us the benefits of EU membership without any of its obligations. The fabled German car manufacturers didn’t, in the end, bail us out, because the EU is about more than mercantilism, commerce or a balance sheet. It is about the political cohesion of a group of nations which depends on shared rules, solidarity and trust. The British government thought it could trump the EU’s laws and values with the promise of 65 million customers, and it was wrong.
    Fox’s idea about education illuminates the truth: the Brexiters were never interested in trade, but the idea of trade. Our future will not depend on the imagination, but on the cold, unforgiving realities of power, leverage and skill. It is right that schoolchildren should learn about it – so should our next prime minister. We may ultimately conclude that if our politicians had paid more attention to trade in the years before the referendum, we would never have conceived of Brexit in the first place.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/16/liam-fox-children-global-trade-brexiters-facts-brexit


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