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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    MPs voted to block no deal by one vote because a Tory whip forgot to cast her ballot




    Jo Churchill (circled) reacts after her failure to vote in a key no-deal Brexit vote in the Commons (BBC Parliament)
    A key vote that paves the way for MPs to block a no-deal Brexit was seemingly lost because a Tory whip forgot to vote.
    Just one single vote was enough for the vote on Dominic Grieve’s amendment to pass on Monday night, which MPs are hoping will ultimately stop the next Prime Minister suspending parliament so Britain can exit the EU without a deal.
    Jo Churchill, the MP for Bury St Edmunds does not appear on the division lists for the vote - with colleagues saying she had forgotten to vote.



    Dominic Grieve said he did not think democracy would survive Parliament being prorogued to allow for a no-deal Brexit (PA)
    Ms Churchill had been acting as a proxy for Norwich North MP Chloe Smith and it is presumed that she forgot to cast her own vote alongside.
    Pictures from the chamber show Ms Churchill reacting in horror as the result of the vote was announced.
    Speaking during the debate, Mr Grieve said he did not think democracy would survive Parliament being prorogued to allow for a no-deal Brexit.

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/m-ps-voted-to-block-no-deal-by-one-vote-because-a-tory-whip-forgot-to-cast-her-ballot-104430929.html







  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    edited July 2019
    The Fool.


    Three for the price of two?





    JD Wetherspoon's Tim Martin makes case for 'no-deal' Brexit


    He called for a no-deal “multi-deal”, “a multitude of deals agreed between individuals, businesses, governments and other organisations” in contrast to a UK-EU agreement.


    JD Wetherspoon, which has close to 900 pubs, has made arrangements to replace some European goods. The firm last year swapped Moët & Chandon champagne for sparkling wines such as Whitedowns Rose Brut.


    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/no-deal-brexit-deliver-major-120736543.html


  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,952
    edited July 2019
    I know I said I wouldn't post on here about Brexit again but have just seen this from my local council. For gawds sake we're leaving the E.U. (allegedly),not trying to survive some sort of post apocalyptic catastrophe that's gonna end up in a dystopian Mad Max kind of world. P.S. The same council have voted to build themselves some nice new offices at a cost of £10million (while cutting services) and despite building new offices about 10 years ago.


    http://www.yourthurrock.com/2019/07/11/thurrock-council-splash-bicycles-case-post-brexit-chaos/?fbclid=IwAR0TXCAJklK4PJlwrTulMR4eT-8-b92TNaJVCp9DfeAoKReYAP-aYq4DT3Q
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    edited July 2019
    lucy4 said:

    I know I said I wouldn't post on here about Brexit again but have just seen this from my local council. For gawds sake we're leaving the E.U. (allegedly),not trying to survive some sort of post apocalyptic catastrophe that's gonna end up in a dystopian Mad Max kind of world. P.S. The same council have voted to build themselves some nice new offices at a cost of £10million (while cutting services) and despite building new offices about 10 years ago.


    http://www.yourthurrock.com/2019/07/11/thurrock-council-splash-bicycles-case-post-brexit-chaos/?fbclid=IwAR0TXCAJklK4PJlwrTulMR4eT-8-b92TNaJVCp9DfeAoKReYAP-aYq4DT3Q



    Spending a few quid on a couple of bikes is the tip of the iceberg.



    Fact check: what a no-deal Brexit will mean for the UK
    May 31, 2019
    CBI warns Tory leadership contenders that the long-term damage will be severe


    Others argue that leaving without an agreement would have disastrous consequences for businesses, create chaos at the borders, drive up food prices and lead to a shortage of essential goods.
    Health Secretary Matt Hancock has warned medical drug companies to expect six months of “significantly reduced access” to the main trade routes between Britain and Continental Europe if there is a no-deal Brexit.
    In a damning report, Kent County Council also warned about the potential effect on key services.
    “Bodies may remain uncollected and children might miss exams due to gridlocked roads in the event of a no-deal Brexit”, the report said.
    Refuse could be left outside homes and food deliveries be disrupted as the county copes with 10,000 lorries clogging up its roads, the council added.

    Former attorney general Dominic Grieve, a leading Conservative Remainer, has warned that a no-deal Brexit would be “absolutely catastrophic” for the UK.
    “We've got to be realistic about this,” he told Sky News. “We will be in a state of emergency.”
    A number of business leaders have voiced similar fears, with Amazon UK chief Doug Gurr predicting that Britain will descend into “civil unrest” within weeks if it leaves the EU with no trade deal in place.
    “Despite Brexiteer claims, this is not a rerun of ‘Project Fear’,” says an editorial in the Financial Times. “Leaving the EU without formal agreements would result in instant, harsh consequences.”



    What do we know for sure?


    If a formal withdrawal treaty has not been ratified by this point, however, all EU rules and regulations will instantly cease to apply to the UK.

    This means there will be no remaining agreements between Britain and the EU on how to manage customs, trade, travel or citizens rights.



    What does this mean for trade?


    Without a bilateral trade deal with the EU, Britain would be subject to World Trade Organization (WTO) rules. UK exports would face the same customs checks and tariffs as other countries outside of the EU. Experts agree that the overnight end of frictionless zero-tariff trade would be likely to increase the price of some goods, lead to shortages, and cause significant delays on both sides of the Channel.
    Leaked research carried out by the UK’s own Brexit department suggests that without deals on customs and trade, parts of Britain would run out of food and even medicines within a fortnight of the present agreements lapsing, according to an editorial last year in The Guardian. “And that is not the worst possible scenario: it is one that lies in the middle of the range of possibilities,” the newspaper adds.

    However, the Government says that contingency planning for this is already under way. The provisions would include stockpiling food and medicines and turning parts of the A20 in Dover into a permanent lorry park.

    Who is right?


    Even with the Government’s contingency planning, leaving the bloc without any agreement in place would result in major disruption to trade, no protection of citizenship rights, and the likelihood of a customs frontier in Northern Ireland.

    https://www.theweek.co.uk/fact-check/95547/fact-check-what-a-no-deal-brexit-really-means

    What is a No Deal Brexit? 21 ways you'll be affected if UK leaves EU with no deal

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-no-deal-brexit-what-13419829

    No-deal Brexit: 12 ways you could be affected
    From wages to roaming charges, a no-deal will involve very significant disruption


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/no-deal-brexit-12-ways-you-could-be-affected-1.3950187
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    lucy4 said:

    I know I said I wouldn't post on here about Brexit again but have just seen this from my local council. For gawds sake we're leaving the E.U. (allegedly),not trying to survive some sort of post apocalyptic catastrophe that's gonna end up in a dystopian Mad Max kind of world. P.S. The same council have voted to build themselves some nice new offices at a cost of £10million (while cutting services) and despite building new offices about 10 years ago.


    http://www.yourthurrock.com/2019/07/11/thurrock-council-splash-bicycles-case-post-brexit-chaos/?fbclid=IwAR0TXCAJklK4PJlwrTulMR4eT-8-b92TNaJVCp9DfeAoKReYAP-aYq4DT3Q



    9 things that will happen on No Deal Brexit Day
    You can fly to Dublin, Dublin, or Dublin.


    1. It will go against public wisdom
    Just after the election, Survation reported that as many as two-thirds of Brits believed that leaving the EU without “a mutually agreed deal” would be bad for Britain, while just 26 per cent reckoned it would be good for the country. Other polls show similar scepticism about leaving with no deal.

    2. There will be legal chaos
    Article 50 states the treaties will cease to apply at the end of the two year negotiating period. According to the report: “This will lead to legal chaos.”
    For example, while treaties are still in place, UK exporters pay no tariffs when transporting goods to Europe. After B-Day, there will be a duty to be paid. But who pays it? And if the buyer and seller enter a dispute, what court resolves it?

    3. Trading with the EU would default to WTO rules
    World Trade Organisation rules would apply. British exporters to the EU would be subject to the same customs checks, tariffs and regulatory barriers that are currently in place with the US. In practical terms, this means lorry queues at border points like Dover and Calais.

    4. A border would reappear on the island of Ireland
    Because of these customs checks and tariffs, the report expects a return to a hard border in Northern Ireland in the absence of a Brexit deal. This would disrupt farming in particular.

    5. Food prices will rise
    While a plummeting pound may affect prices in the short term (as it’s already doing), the report expects food to get pricier in the longer term because of the extra tariffs. Where the UK relies on buying from abroad, like fruits and vegetables, pork and beef, “prices may rise significantly”.

    6. It’s fishing galore

    If no deal is reached, boats from other EU member state will lose their automatic legal right to go fish in UK waters. So British fishermen could catch more fish. But here’s the catch. When it came to selling that fish, they would face tariffs on sales to their largest export market – the EU.

    7. The only destination is Dublin
    The report expects that if no deal was struck, the right to operate services from one airport to another would vanish and the only reliable airline routes would be from the UK to the airline’s home country. In other words, you could fly Ryanair to Dublin, but not to Barcelona, Milan or Paris.

    8. We’re going un-nuclear
    Without being a member of Euratom, the body that oversees nuclear energy, the UK will lose access to safety procedures and systems for operating nuclear power plants. The plants would have to shut, and the UK would have to find new sources of energy soon, or it’s lights out.

    9. EU’re in limbo

    Without any agreement, EU citizens in the UK would be in a form of legal and political limbo – not illegal, but with their status at best anomalous. Those without documentation would struggle the most. Meanwhile, UK nationals elsewhere in the EU would find themselves at the mercy of individual nation states.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/07/9-things-will-happen-no-deal-brexit-day
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,952
    edited July 2019
    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    "Project fear" was invented subsequent to the referendum, and used by Brexiteers in response to anything they didn't like the sound of, or to questions they couldn't answer.

    They pointed to forecasts that were made by the remain side, about the repercussions of a leave vote.

    I don't know whether these forecasts were deliberately exaggerated to frighten people into voting remain, or were an innocent mistake.

    Whichever way you look at them, they turned out to be incorrect.

    The Brexiteers have used the inaccuracy of these forecasts, to pour cold water on any anti-Brexit news.

    I also don't fully understand why such economic damage was expected as a result of just voting to leave.

    Although I do understand some of the implications of actually leaving.

    Matt Hancock the Health Secretary, and Boris supporter, has admitted on tv that he could not guarantee that there will be no deaths caused by drug shortages, particularly those with a very short shelf life.

    You would think that the prospect of causing deaths would be enough to put us off.

    The pound has lost value since the referendum, making imports more expensive, and is expected to fall further in the case of a no deal.

    I don't think the general public have much of a clue about the repercussions, and unfortunately many will be surprised.

    Politicians are clearly divided, where many describe no deal as a disaster, and a smaller number say it will be ok.

    The disaster prediction is not restricted to remain voters, as many leave voters are in favour of leaving with a deal, and are dead against no deal.

    The Government own figures show that every Brexit option damages our economy.

    Many prominent Brexiteers are outright lying about our future trade prospects.

    Liam Fox, our International Trade Minister, was the man that described the prospect of a post Brexit trade deal with the EU, as the easiest in human history. Guaranteed, but failed to replace 40 trade deals prior to 29th March. Forced to admit that the Canadian trade deal that was 99% complete, has now bitten the dust after the Canadians have listened to the stupid future trade policy being put forward by our no deal supporting politicians.

    I am not going to go on and on, about predictions, and forecasts, but there are some facts that should be obvious to those with any common sense.

    Whatever happens, the EU couldnt give us the same benefits as non members, as we got as members, because this would encourage other countries to leave.

    Getting less will cause damage to our economy, and cost jobs.

    We also lose access to trade deals with around 70 countries that we currently have in place through our EU membership.

    We may be able to replace these deals in time, but it may take years.

    In the meantime we are likely to struggle.

    After we have left, there will be many leave voters sat at home because they no longer have a job, but happy because we have taken back control, well at least in theory.

    Greg Clarke the Business Secretary is in my left ear warning of thousands of job losses in the event of a no deal exit.

    I think it is impossible to argue that many people will be worse off after we leave, irrespective of how we leave.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,783
    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    I DO believe that we will start facing major problems from November 1st.

    This will be blamed on Brexit. That will be a factor, of course. But the major reason will be the total failure to prepare for the inevitable changes that Brexit will bring.

    Let's start with the obvious-Customs. All other Western european countries have already recruited and trained additional specialist Customs staff to deal with this. As an example, Belgium have recruited 350 people. Just for UK trade.

    We are a lot bigger than Belgium. And, of course, our trade with the EU is massively bigger than Belgium-Uk. How many extra staff will we need? It is a secret that this Government refuses to divulge. The TUC say 5,000 staff, David Davis (when Brexit Secretary) said 3-5,000. But now it is a secret.

    How many extra staff have been employed/trained in the UK? None known. Again (unlike all other countries) this Government is refusing to say what the plans are. However, it is known that HMRC are in the process of making redundancies and closing all its smaller regional centres. So (for example) there will be no offices North of Edinburgh/Glasgow, and only Bristol serving the West.

    When the Head of the Road Haulage Association dared to express concern recently, he was warned that the RHA could be removed from future planning. Really? People also need to recognise that we are becoming dependant on France agreeing to relax border controls voluntarily (and permanently)-good luck with that. We are swapping being members of a (dodgy) club for being increasingly reliant on other nations. For the first time in nearly 50 years, we will be reliant on other nations' Customs staff.

    People need to realise and accept that there is a price to be paid for leaving the EU (and particularly the Customs Union). The problem this country currently has is it seems to believe that you can make an omelette without breaking eggs.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Essexphil said:

    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    I DO believe that we will start facing major problems from November 1st.

    This will be blamed on Brexit. That will be a factor, of course. But the major reason will be the total failure to prepare for the inevitable changes that Brexit will bring.

    Let's start with the obvious-Customs. All other Western european countries have already recruited and trained additional specialist Customs staff to deal with this. As an example, Belgium have recruited 350 people. Just for UK trade.

    We are a lot bigger than Belgium. And, of course, our trade with the EU is massively bigger than Belgium-Uk. How many extra staff will we need? It is a secret that this Government refuses to divulge. The TUC say 5,000 staff, David Davis (when Brexit Secretary) said 3-5,000. But now it is a secret.

    How many extra staff have been employed/trained in the UK? None known. Again (unlike all other countries) this Government is refusing to say what the plans are. However, it is known that HMRC are in the process of making redundancies and closing all its smaller regional centres. So (for example) there will be no offices North of Edinburgh/Glasgow, and only Bristol serving the West.

    When the Head of the Road Haulage Association dared to express concern recently, he was warned that the RHA could be removed from future planning. Really? People also need to recognise that we are becoming dependant on France agreeing to relax border controls voluntarily (and permanently)-good luck with that. We are swapping being members of a (dodgy) club for being increasingly reliant on other nations. For the first time in nearly 50 years, we will be reliant on other nations' Customs staff.

    People need to realise and accept that there is a price to be paid for leaving the EU (and particularly the Customs Union). The problem this country currently has is it seems to believe that you can make an omelette without breaking eggs.
    I don't disagree with what you have said, but again this is just the very tip of the iceberg.
    You could go on for days illustrating the changes that will have to take place, and the difficulties involved.

    Just on moving stuff about.

    We currently have only 6,500 permits required for future European travel, and 40,000 trucks, that will need one
    .
    A very small percentage of exporting companies have registered themselves.

    One truck can contain a couple of hundred different loads, all requiring different paperwork, and may need checking by different officials.

    Our testing will no longer be recognised, causing substantial extra costs, and in some cases lengthy delays, ruining the prospects of just in time manufacturing being able to continue.

    Some of our products cross many borders a numbers of times, and the prospects of tariffs will make them uncompetitive.

    Smuggling will become a big issue when tariffs are imposed.

    The proposed trade policy being put forward by Brexiteers is incoherent and amounts to nonsense.

    You could just go on and on...…………………




    How many tariffs do you have to pay before in becomes more sensible to move the factory?



    A Mini part's incredible journey shows how Brexit will hit the UK car industry
    This article is more than 2 years old
    Multiple cross-Channel road trips highlight how carmakers and suppliers in Britain and the EU are intertwined


    If there is just one anecdote that succinctly sums up the problems that Brexit and the threat of tariffs pose to the UK car industry, it is this: the story behind the crankshaft used in the BMW Mini, which crosses the Channel three times in a 2,000-mile journey before the finished car rolls off the production line.
    A cast of the raw crankshaft – the part of the car that translates the movement of the pistons into the rotational motion required to move the vehicle – is made by a supplier based in France.
    From there it is shipped to BMW’s Hams Hall plant in Warwickshire, where it is drilled and milled into shape. When that job is complete, each crankshaft is then sent back across the Channel to Munich, where it inserted into the engine.
    From Munich, it is back to the Mini plant in Oxford, where the engine is then “married” with the car.
    If the car is to be sold on the continent then the crankshaft, inside the finished motor, will cross the Channel for a fourth time.




    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu



    Another well-travelled car part is the Bentley bumper. It is made in eastern Europe before being sent to Crewe for further work, then on to Germany for finishing and finally back to Crewe where it is added to the luxury vehicle.

    Nissan’s site – the largest car plant in the UK – uses 5m parts a day on a production line that makes two cars every minute. “We’re talking two, three, four, six minutes’ downtime a day interruption is a disaster,” Lawther said.


    “There are two things that will happen. Decisions over new models will switch away from the UK and I think when a company is face with tough decisions – like Vauxhall/Opel – the likelihood is it will go against the UK.”
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Essexphil said:

    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    I DO believe that we will start facing major problems from November 1st.

    This will be blamed on Brexit. That will be a factor, of course. But the major reason will be the total failure to prepare for the inevitable changes that Brexit will bring.

    Let's start with the obvious-Customs. All other Western european countries have already recruited and trained additional specialist Customs staff to deal with this. As an example, Belgium have recruited 350 people. Just for UK trade.

    We are a lot bigger than Belgium. And, of course, our trade with the EU is massively bigger than Belgium-Uk. How many extra staff will we need? It is a secret that this Government refuses to divulge. The TUC say 5,000 staff, David Davis (when Brexit Secretary) said 3-5,000. But now it is a secret.

    How many extra staff have been employed/trained in the UK? None known. Again (unlike all other countries) this Government is refusing to say what the plans are. However, it is known that HMRC are in the process of making redundancies and closing all its smaller regional centres. So (for example) there will be no offices North of Edinburgh/Glasgow, and only Bristol serving the West.

    When the Head of the Road Haulage Association dared to express concern recently, he was warned that the RHA could be removed from future planning. Really? People also need to recognise that we are becoming dependant on France agreeing to relax border controls voluntarily (and permanently)-good luck with that. We are swapping being members of a (dodgy) club for being increasingly reliant on other nations. For the first time in nearly 50 years, we will be reliant on other nations' Customs staff.

    People need to realise and accept that there is a price to be paid for leaving the EU (and particularly the Customs Union). The problem this country currently has is it seems to believe that you can make an omelette without breaking eggs.
    The two candidates are at the mercy of Andrew Neill tonight, which should be entertaining.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930










    There's continuing fallout from the BBC's Panorama investigation into Labour's handling of anti-Semitism allegations.
    The Guardian says at least 30 of the party's current and former staff will submit witness statements to the equality watchdog, which is considering whether Labour has unlawfully discriminated against Jewish people.
    Some members of the party's ruling National Executive Committee are also said to be concerned they have not seen the material that Labour's bosses have sent to the inquiry, "making it impossible for them to respond credibly to its findings".
    In a comment piece for the Guardian, the Momentum founder, Jon Lansman - who sits on the NEC - says he wants to "solve the issue of anti-Semitism", but criticises those who have used it as a weapon to attack Jeremy Corbyn.
    "This leads to combative, entrenched opinions on both sides and only makes it harder to tackle the problem," he says.


    The decision to release a prolific female paedophile from prison prompts a furious response in the Daily Mail, which asks: "How Can This Be Justice?"
    Vanessa George, a former nursery worker from Plymouth, was jailed in 2009 for abusing up to 30 babies and toddlers in her care - but will be freed in the autumn after the Parole Board ruled she no longer posed a significant risk.
    The Daily Mirror reports that the local MP, Luke Pollard, has asked Justice Secretary David Gauke to urgently review the decision, calling it a "kick in the teeth" for George's victims.
    The Parole Board says its ruling was made with "great care" and insists that public safety is "the number one priority".
    The Guardian reports that more than 300 primary schools in England that were rated inadequate by Ofsted have been forced to become academies in the past three years.
    Analysis of government figures shows that since 2013, a similar number of primaries have been passed from one academy trust to another, allowing their new sponsors to collect millions of pounds in grants.
    Shadow Education Secretary Angela Rayner tells the paper it's "yet another sign that the academy system is failing even on its own terms".
    The Department for Education insists that fewer than 4% of academies transferred to another trust last year, most of them voluntarily, and says it won't hesitate to take "swift action" when schools underperform.

    British troops commitment
    The Sun says Boris Johnson has joined his Conservative leadership rival, Jeremy Hunt, in supporting plans to protect British troops who've served in Northern Ireland from prosecution.
    Like Mr Hunt, Mr Johnson also promises to set up a government department focused on delivering care and support for military veterans.
    The paper welcomes the pledge from both men, but demands they deliver on the first day of their premiership.
    According to the Daily Telegraph, three major supermarket chains are charging customers more for items that are plastic-free.
    An investigation found shoppers at Tesco, Sainsbury's and Morrisons pay about 20% less for tins of tuna or baked beans if they buy them as a multipack of four, wrapped in plastic.
    And the beaming faces of Eoin Morgan and Joe Root appear on many of the front pages after England thrashed Australia to reach the Cricket World Cup final.
    "Blast Off" is the headline in the Telegraph, while the Express declares "Cricket's Coming Home".
    The i says that tickets for the final are being advertised on the reselling website, Viagogo, for as much as £20,000.




  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Labour’s Brexit agreement is a nonsense: Jeremy Corbyn still isn’t listening to his party – or the country
    My party, and the country as a whole, deserves better. Young people especially need to know that their futures aren’t being weighed against political expediency


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-jeremy-corbyn-labour-deal-second-referendum-remain-campaign-a8998681.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Brexit news - live: Business minister warns of no-deal jobs calamity as May takes veiled dig at Johnson
    Follow live updates from Westminster as Tory leadership candidates prepare for major TV interviews


    A no-deal Brexit would mean "many thousands" of jobs in the UK being lost, Greg Clark, the business secretary, has warned.
    The warning comes amid reports that current senior ministers could organise a "sit-in" to prevent the next government pushing through a no-deal exit.

    As the Tory leadership candidates prepared for a television grilling by the BBC's Andrew Neil, Theresa May launched a veiled attack on Boris Johnson, warning them that being prime minister was not "about themselves"
    .

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-tory-leadership-boris-johnson-hustings-debate-no-deal-hunt-a9001706.html

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Brexit LIVE: Varadkar says UK ‘not as important' as it used to be - 'reality check coming'
    IRISH premier Leo Varadkar has claimed the UK is “not as important” as it used to be and that the next prime minister will face a "very serious reality check" on Brexit.


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1152447/brexit-latest-new-boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-deal
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    edited July 2019
    Boris Johnson reveals he rang ousted Ambassador in shameless bid to dodge blame
    The Tory leadership frontrunner tried to shift the blame to rivals who he said "politicised" the envoy's decision to quit


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-reveals-rang-ousted-17993428

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Jeremy Corbyn needs to start showing some leadership to revive his flagging party
    Jeremy Corbyn is under pressure to steer his party out of the doldrums and show he can lead them to victory


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-needs-start-showing-17490231
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    He has become a blithering idiot as soon as he started supporting Boris.




    Tory Matt Hancock refuses to answer Piers Morgan 15 TIMES in car crash interview
    Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid even asked Alexa on ITV's Good Morning Britain after the Boris Johnson backer refused to say if our US Ambassador should be sacked


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-matt-hancock-refuses-answer-17794201
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930








    A number of MPs have told the Daily Telegraph that they are deeply concerned about Scotland Yard asking the media not to publish leaked government documents - in the wake of the Sir Kim Darroch affair.
    Liberal Democrat MP Norman Lamb says Britain cannot "contemplate any slippery slope to a police state" that limits the freedom of the press to report, while former culture secretary John Whittingdale describes the idea of prosecuting journalists as "completely wrong".
    The paper says the government is bracing itself for further revelations in the Mail On Sunday - following claims that the person behind the leak is determined to bring down civil servants standing in the way of Brexit.



    The comment sections feast on Andrew Neil's grilling of the Conservative leadership candidates on BBC One on Friday evening.
    It was, The Times says, "like being pierced by a porcupine" - as the two rivals went head-to-head with a "veteran slicer of bombast and waffle".
    In his sketch, Quentin Letts suggests that Jeremy Hunt came off worst - "sat in the terrifying black chair with the upright, stiff posture of a nervous motorist sitting his driving test" - while Boris Johnson "showed more fight".
    But the Telegraph's Leo McKinstry doesn't think we learned very much. "There were no deadly googlies from Neil", he says, "just well anticipated bouncers which were dealt with easily."

    The Daily Mail leads on what experts say is a "paradigm-shifting" procedure to restore sight to the blind.
    In a world-first trial in the US, five men and a woman partly regained their vision after their brains were fitted with electrodes which can receive images from a small video camera mounted on a pair of glasses.
    One of the patients, Benjamin James Spencer, tells the paper of his joy at seeing his wife and three daughters for the first time, although he points out the quality of the images is akin to "grainy 1980s surveillance video footage".
    Researchers say they hope to further refine the technology, and expect it to become widely available within three years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48972227





  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    Essexphil said:

    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    I DO believe that we will start facing major problems from November 1st.

    This will be blamed on Brexit. That will be a factor, of course. But the major reason will be the total failure to prepare for the inevitable changes that Brexit will bring.

    Let's start with the obvious-Customs. All other Western european countries have already recruited and trained additional specialist Customs staff to deal with this. As an example, Belgium have recruited 350 people. Just for UK trade.

    We are a lot bigger than Belgium. And, of course, our trade with the EU is massively bigger than Belgium-Uk. How many extra staff will we need? It is a secret that this Government refuses to divulge. The TUC say 5,000 staff, David Davis (when Brexit Secretary) said 3-5,000. But now it is a secret.

    How many extra staff have been employed/trained in the UK? None known. Again (unlike all other countries) this Government is refusing to say what the plans are. However, it is known that HMRC are in the process of making redundancies and closing all its smaller regional centres. So (for example) there will be no offices North of Edinburgh/Glasgow, and only Bristol serving the West.

    When the Head of the Road Haulage Association dared to express concern recently, he was warned that the RHA could be removed from future planning. Really? People also need to recognise that we are becoming dependant on France agreeing to relax border controls voluntarily (and permanently)-good luck with that. We are swapping being members of a (dodgy) club for being increasingly reliant on other nations. For the first time in nearly 50 years, we will be reliant on other nations' Customs staff.

    People need to realise and accept that there is a price to be paid for leaving the EU (and particularly the Customs Union). The problem this country currently has is it seems to believe that you can make an omelette without breaking eggs.
    On and on and on...……………………..

    The head of the Port of Dover in September described the potential for delays in processing goods as an “Armageddon Scenario.” 99% of goods traffic passing through Dover relates to trade with the EU which makes that port (and other southern English ports) particularly exposed to changes in current customs arrangements with the EU. Witnesses for the Home Affairs Committee (in January 2017) made similar points including that if new arrangements were introduced at short notice (for example from a ‘no deal’ Brexit) delays and blockages at ports could amount to a “shock to the system” which risked bringing “supply chains to a halt.”
    Time sensitive goods (such as perishable goods and those destined for 'just in time' manufacture) are particularly exposed to new customs checks delaying processing at ports. Agri-food products in particular could be affected if large percentages of food need to be checked by food health agencies at borders. Checks on containers can take 2-4 days with checks to vehicles potentially causing 5 hour delays. When multiplied across the volume of goods passing through the UK’s ports such delays become substantial.

    One estimate has suggested that 5-6 hour delays in processing goods passing through Dover could replicate delays encountered during ‘Operation Stack’ in 2015 with disruption on the M20 reaching as far as the M25 on a chronic regular basis. Currently vehicles entering the UK via Dover or the Channel Tunnel which require customs checks (i.e. largely those trading with non-EU nations) are checked at a location off the M20 which has only 82 spaces for lorries. If vehicles trading with the EU also need to be checked, then the volumes will obviously be far in excess of this capacity.

    Substantial infrastructure works may be required at or around all existing ports. That would be difficult at many ports where space is limited. The director general of borders at HMRC told the public accounts committee in November: “The assumption is that there, at some point, will be a need for some additional physical infrastructure to enable customs controls. As much as possible we would like it to be inland rather than at the port, particularly where ports are constrained.” The Home Affairs Committee shared the view that additional infrastructure including port, road and rail facilities are likely to be required.
    The practical issues are not confined to the UK. Ports in continental Europe and Ireland may also need additional customs check facilities (which in many cases do not yet exist and which the relevant countries may be reluctant to commit funds to build). If so, any delays in processing UK exports through such facilities will effectively delay UK supply chains

    The Home Affairs Committee recorded estimates of the costs associated with additional customs checks and clearances on UK importers and exporters. 180,000 traders may be required to make customs declarations for the first time at a cost of £4 – £9 billion per year with some 200 million additional declarations (HMRC's new system, commissioned pre-referendum was designed with a capacity of 150 million a year to deal with current levels of some £50 million such declarations. That system will need to be upgraded for post-Brexit declarations. That may not be feasible before exit day). The cost of additional checks (whether conducted at ports and airports or elsewhere) could be in the region £19 – £26 billion.

    In addition Home Affairs Committee is concerned that border staff are not unduly stretched such that security, smuggling and the entry of illegal goods are compromised. It rejected the Home Office’s estimate of 400 new border staff being required as "completely unconvincing." (HMRC's estimated 5,000 new staff).

    https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/trade-and-customs-impacts-at-ports-post-brexit/



  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,930
    edited July 2019
    Essexphil said:

    lucy4 said:

    Sounds a bit like yet another 'Project Fear' assumption to me,perpetrated by the type of people who believed that the 'Millennium Bug' would cause worldwide doom.Do you remember those predictions and the actual effect it had on the world.
    Do you honestly think that the country is gonna grind to a halt on November 1st?
    I'll leave you to plan for survival in the future dystopian world ruled by the likes of Trump,Johnson,Farage et al.

    I DO believe that we will start facing major problems from November 1st.

    This will be blamed on Brexit. That will be a factor, of course. But the major reason will be the total failure to prepare for the inevitable changes that Brexit will bring.

    Let's start with the obvious-Customs. All other Western european countries have already recruited and trained additional specialist Customs staff to deal with this. As an example, Belgium have recruited 350 people. Just for UK trade.

    We are a lot bigger than Belgium. And, of course, our trade with the EU is massively bigger than Belgium-Uk. How many extra staff will we need? It is a secret that this Government refuses to divulge. The TUC say 5,000 staff, David Davis (when Brexit Secretary) said 3-5,000. But now it is a secret.

    How many extra staff have been employed/trained in the UK? None known. Again (unlike all other countries) this Government is refusing to say what the plans are. However, it is known that HMRC are in the process of making redundancies and closing all its smaller regional centres. So (for example) there will be no offices North of Edinburgh/Glasgow, and only Bristol serving the West.

    When the Head of the Road Haulage Association dared to express concern recently, he was warned that the RHA could be removed from future planning. Really? People also need to recognise that we are becoming dependant on France agreeing to relax border controls voluntarily (and permanently)-good luck with that. We are swapping being members of a (dodgy) club for being increasingly reliant on other nations. For the first time in nearly 50 years, we will be reliant on other nations' Customs staff.

    People need to realise and accept that there is a price to be paid for leaving the EU (and particularly the Customs Union). The problem this country currently has is it seems to believe that you can make an omelette without breaking eggs.



    Labour's long and winding road to another referendum


    It's three years since the EU referendum, when the UK voted for Brexit.
    Now Jeremy Corbyn has announced a big shift in Labour's policy on another referendum.
    In a letter to party members, the Labour leader said the new prime minister "should have the confidence" to put their deal, or no deal, back to the people in a public vote in which Labour would campaign to remain in the EU.
    Labour's 2017 general election manifesto pledged to "accept the referendum result" - so for some this is a broken promise.
    For others, the party is finally listening to Labour voters - two thirds of whom backed Remain in 2016.
    But how did we get here?


    Article 50 and the six tests


    In February 2017, more than three quarters of Labour MPs voted with the government to trigger Article 50 and begin the process of leaving the EU - 47 Labour MPs rebelled against the wishes of the leadership.
    Jeremy Corbyn said the result demonstrated that Labour respected the referendum result.

    The following month Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, outlined "six tests" for Labour to support any deal brought back from Brussels by Theresa May.
    These included ensuring the "same benefits" for the UK currently available within the single market.



    The 2018 party conference

    With the party membership strongly in favour of another vote - and Theresa May not changing tack on her Brexit approach - pressure was building on the leadership to give the public another say.
    A motion supported by delegates at the 2018 party conference said: "If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote."
    Months earlier, shadow Northern Ireland secretary and former leadership rival Owen Smith had been sacked for breaking party policy by calling for another referendum.



    Motion of no confidence



    After Theresa May's Brexit plan was rejected by an unprecedented 230 votes in Parliament, Labour moved to enact their conference policy and seek a general election.
    Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, they tabled a motion of no confidence which, if the government had lost, would have started a process that could have led to the general election Labour sought.
    But it didn't pass - and, unable to achieve a fresh poll, the party's sequential conference policy came into effect.


    Votes in Parliament


    In January 2019, coming back to Parliament to outline her next Brexit steps, the prime minister faced a series of amendments instructing her on what to do next.
    Crucially, the Labour leadership supported two amendments that asked her to seek EU approval to extend Article 50.
    It was the first time the upper echelons of the party had formally backed an extension to remaining in the EU.

    The letter


    In February 2019, Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter to the prime minister demanding five changes to her negotiating red lines. This included a call for a permanent customs union and close alignment to the single market.
    Gone was the call for ensuring the "same benefits" of the single market, but the prospect of a People's Vote was not mentioned.
    Mr Corbyn's demands, however, were rejected by Mrs May.

    Tiggers

    Frustrated with the party's handling of anti-Semitism and Brexit, eight Labour MPs quit the party to set up the new Independent Group. They were joined by three Conservative MPs.
    All 11 members of The Independent Group support a People's Vote - another referendum.

    Referendum motions

    After an attempt in February to enshrine Labour's Brexit demands into law was rejected by Parliament, Labour pledged to "propose or support" future public vote amendments.


    Cross-party talks

    Unable to get her deal through Parliament for a third time, Theresa May reached out to Labour in the hope of securing a compromise agreement.
    But talks broke down weeks later with both sides blaming the other.
    Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer had previously said any deal would not pass Parliament without a confirmatory vote.


    The European elections

    Campaigning on a platform advocating a public vote if it was unable to achieve its preferred Brexit plan, the party achieved less than 15% of the national vote share and dropped to third place overall behind The Brexit Party and the Lib Dems.
    Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry said the results showed the party should now campaign to remain.
    This call was later echoed by deputy leader Tom Watson and the Labour leaders in Scotland and Wales.
    Though we are still unsure what the party's policy will be if there's another general election, Labour's move towards full-throated support for another referendum is closer than ever









    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47420525
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