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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    After googling for Brexit news, there’s still nothing to see.
    Nothing we don’t already know. Exciting times!

    Do you think we should remain closely aligned and protect the economy, or diverge and purposely damage it?

    And why?

    Do you think Boris has a mandate to diverge?

    If so where from?

    Does leaving with a Norway plus deal, still amount to leaving?

    As we already conduct some checks between NI, and UK, which are done on the ferries to avoid delays. Do you think that in the light of the fact that we are about to employ 50,000 staff to process the additional post Brexit paperwork, in addition to a large number of extra Customs Officers. That we may have chosen to employ extra staff to carry out checks on the ferries, and therefore avoid delays, in order to avoid drug, and people smuggling, that this could have been implemented many years ago, and avoided any dead bodies turning up in trucks?

    Do you agree that we didn't need to leave the EU, to provide more protection for our borders?

    The Tory Party was fairly recently conducting an ABB campaign. This stood for anyone but Boris. What changed?

    Boris has made it clear that he will not extend the EU trade negotiations past the end of December. Do you agree with this?

    Or do you think he should focus on the best deal for the UK, however long that takes?

    Do you think we will attract many foreign manufacturers to the UK, post Brexit. Or do you think that they will be more likely to set up in Europe, to access a bigger market?
    I don’t mind checks, as that’s showing responsibility.

    Why haven't they done them before?


    Whether or not this Government sticks to this year for a deal of some sort to be done who knows.

    Why have an unnecessary deadline, that may jeopardise the deal?

    Boris had clearly stated that he wont extend the transition, and we will leave at the end of the year, with or without a deal.


    Obv the strategy is to focus on doing whatever deal may be possible in a shorter than the average time.Focuses the minds, which can’t be a bad thing.


    Nonsense both sides want a deal, and both sides lose out if there is no deal. That is a fact. Although you don't seem to be keen on facts.


    I would keep my strategy or intentions under wraps anyway.

    Impossible.


    But of course the media seem to think they need to know everything.

    The media has a responsibility to inform the electorate.



    Coming out of the EU and alignment with their rules doesn’t look a good mix.

    Only if you wished to cause the most damage possible to our economy.



    Don’t hold your breath for alignment .

    I am not, Boris has already decided.



    There could be a challenging recession due to the virus, even more by the disruption.
    That could potentially change attitudes towards any deals.

    Causing more damage, but irrelevant to the deal.

    If the virus causes damage to the economy, which seems likely, then it is all the more reason to lose as little trade as possible with the EU.

    That is not the Boris plan.


    Maybe we should get our arses over to Mexico, it could be the new China.
    I think China will fall out of favor.
    I’ve been telling a Property developer I do work for, for a number of years that Carney should have increased rates, then you have wiggle room for cuts if there’s a crisis.
    First Carney says the BOE aren’t going to move until the unemployment hits his target, which it did. Then he says it’s not going to move unless there’s inflation, which he apparently says there wasn’t, even though I could personally see there was.
    Yup, I don’t like Carney,and vice versa I hope👍

    Yawn.


    Were the questions too difficult?

    I think this is a very half hearted attempt at a response.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Boris is a chancer, but sometimes chancers win.

    And?
    He could become a good PM. Obv.
    Who would your choice be for PM if you had the choice of the whole house?
    Most of the time he just tells half a story.

    The other day he was making a big fuss about the tampon tax.
    Making the point that once we leave the EU, this could be stopped.
    The EU are forcing us to do it.


    Yet the full story is as follows.
    The European Commission says it is aiming to bring in a zero rate for sanitary products.
    The tax is 5%.
    It makes a difference of 3 pence to a 60 pence pack of tampons.
    This will make little difference to the poorest women in our society.
    If they are unable to afford 60 pence, it is unlikely that they will be able to afford 57 pence.

    In July this year, supermarket Tesco cut prices on nearly 100 menstrual protection products in order to shoulder the 5% VAT cost.
    Competitors Waitrose and Morrisons followed suit in August and other retailers have pledged to pass on a price cut if VAT becomes zero-rated.

    The revenue produced by this tax was around £65 million last year.
    The whole amount is spent on womens charities, including shelters for battered women.
    All worthwhile causes.
    Where will they get their funding from now.
    Brilliant Boris.
    The tampon tax is supposed to please a few, with a slight pop at the EU.
    Quite irrelevant really.

    I was making the point about Boris yet again telling half a story.


    Funding for all sorts of areas is about juggling numbers.
    As I’ve already stated somewhere at the time of the election,it’s the cabinet that matters as much as the PM.

    Who picks The Cabinet?

    Being the Treasurer is like being the England coach. Very few succeed.
    I am assuming you mean The Chancellor.

    One just resigned over Boris trying to control him.

    Your comment is bs.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    It will be interesting to see what the EU do if there’s a pandemic throughout the Eurozone.
    Sounds expensive to me me, whilst they’re having trouble with their budget as it is.
    I’m not suggesting the threat is from the virus alone, but the resulting lockdowns.
    The big one for the U.K. would be cases spread through the London Underground.
    The unions will have their drivers out, through it not being a safe environment to work in.
    Then up pops Sturgeon.

    Brexit.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    BREAKING NEWS!!
    Boris is a traitor,as in the few months he’s been PM, he should have foreseen the impending floods. Forget the election, forget Brexit,let’s build flood defenses first.
    Back to your meat and veg, enjoy.

    Very astute of you to point out that many people absolutely hate Boris.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    BREAKING NEWS!!
    Boris is a traitor,as in the few months he’s been PM, he should have foreseen the impending floods. Forget the election, forget Brexit,let’s build flood defenses first.
    Back to your meat and veg, enjoy.

    You just cant seem to absorb it.

    The criticism of Boris is regarding the hypocrisy of his rushing around the flooded areas during the election campaign, and having pathetic excuses for not going anywhere near, subsequent to the campaign.
    This is a fact, and therefore cannot be defended.
    There is also some criticism of the Tories failure to address the problem in a meaningful way.
    Too little, too late.
    In the light of this I suppose that the floods could have been foreseen.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897


    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.

    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.

    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?

    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.

    We had borders before Brexit.
    We just didn't look after them very well.




    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.

    Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.




    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.


    True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.



    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.

    I don't think you will.
    How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?




    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.

    We have always had borders.
    We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.



    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.

    You don't matter very much.
    People running big businesses do care.




    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.

    We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.


    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.

    Who will suffer?


    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.

    We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.



    It only gets a mention every now and then.



    I worry about you on times.

    You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?

    You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.

    As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.

    Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.

    When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.

    They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.

    Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.

    Well how did they get here?

    They are not from within the EU.

    We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.

    So immigration is increasing.

    Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.

    Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.



    There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.


    I never suggested I did.
    I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU.
    The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago.
    For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago.
    Yet they haven't bothered.
    We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit.
    Try getting into the US.
    We could have adopted similar measures.
    The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders.
    We are amateurs in comparison.
    We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.




    Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself.
    So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often.
    Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.


    Don't understand the point.




    History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.




    Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.


    I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.

    That is completely irrelevant to this argument.
    There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.




    Better include the ones that fold through the effects of the virus.

    I am just not sure if you understand this argument.

    I just keep repeating myself.

    Boris has a choice.

    The choice was to remain closely aligned to the EU, and cause the least damage to our economy.

    He has chosen to diverge and cause more damage.

    That was his choice.

    He has already made it.

    The virus will cause damage, but nobody is to blame.

    All the Government can do is mitigate this damage.

    Boris has chosen to damage our economy through Brexit.

    Who’s “ choice”?
    Don’t quote Boris for Christ’s sake.



    The Withdrawal Agreement includes a Political Declaration.

    The Political Declaration outlines the direction of the trade talks.

    Theresa May wanted to remain closely aligned, and have a customs arrangement.

    This would have caused the least damage to our economy, maintained frictionless, tariff free, quotaless, trade with the EU.

    Boris is insistent on diverging.

    He has no mandate.

    He claims that he wishes to unite the country.

    Many remainers and leavers would be happy if we maintained a close relationship with the EU after we leave.

    However the path he has chosen is only likely to satisfy the Eurosceptic fanatics, and will not unite the country.

    He is a compulsive liar.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,459
    How can you tell if BoJo is lying?.........his lips are moving!
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    Best description I’ve heard for Brexit, courtesy of Bill Bailey; comedian and musician is it’s s
    “Shakespearean sh it show..”

    Many leavers may appreciate that a bit more at the beginning of next year.
    You would. You’re a remainer. I wouldn’t expect any different.
    Don't understand your point, it is not clear.

    I was a remainer, we are now definitely leaving.
    I’m waiting to see what happens, others seem to have a crystal ball.
    I do like a bit of forecasting though👍
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    After googling for Brexit news, there’s still nothing to see.
    Nothing we don’t already know. Exciting times!

    Do you think we should remain closely aligned and protect the economy, or diverge and purposely damage it?

    And why?

    Do you think Boris has a mandate to diverge?

    If so where from?

    Does leaving with a Norway plus deal, still amount to leaving?

    As we already conduct some checks between NI, and UK, which are done on the ferries to avoid delays. Do you think that in the light of the fact that we are about to employ 50,000 staff to process the additional post Brexit paperwork, in addition to a large number of extra Customs Officers. That we may have chosen to employ extra staff to carry out checks on the ferries, and therefore avoid delays, in order to avoid drug, and people smuggling, that this could have been implemented many years ago, and avoided any dead bodies turning up in trucks?

    Do you agree that we didn't need to leave the EU, to provide more protection for our borders?

    The Tory Party was fairly recently conducting an ABB campaign. This stood for anyone but Boris. What changed?

    Boris has made it clear that he will not extend the EU trade negotiations past the end of December. Do you agree with this?

    Or do you think he should focus on the best deal for the UK, however long that takes?

    Do you think we will attract many foreign manufacturers to the UK, post Brexit. Or do you think that they will be more likely to set up in Europe, to access a bigger market?
    So I’ve heard from mates,a divorce is very traumatic and damaging.
    But they come through it and kick on.
    That is a very poor response.
    Will have to come back on this in the future.
    A lot can happen between now and the years end.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    I’ll finish with what a good strategy by Erdogan.👏
    With sky reporters reporting inside Idlib for a while now, and the world watches and does nothing,that was a mighty fine move. Well thought out.
    So Idlib gets flattened, more refugees enter Turkey.
    Then after a while you send them back to nothing?

    Which bit is good?
    The ceasefire.
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Boris is a chancer, but sometimes chancers win.

    And?
    He could become a good PM. Obv.
    Who would your choice be for PM if you had the choice of the whole house?
    Beth Rigby.
    Strange choice.
    I’ve never heard her ask a question that even I couldn’t give the expected reply to.
    Not exactly rhetorical questions, but close.
    I presume you would like her to stand for the Labour Party then.
    She’s female though, I’m not sure Labour want to be that radical.
    I wasn't aware that you were a Beth Rigby expert.
    As I have pointed out a number of times before, I have not ever voted Labour.
    I think that any Political Party should choose the best candidate as their leader rather than perhaps just picking a woman for the sake of it.
    I am.
    As for the Labour leader,the best candidate would be either of the women imo.
    If it goes pear shaped for this government, then the Labour Party could have anyone as leader and be successful.Joe Bloggs or even Joanne Bloggs.
    Why do you think that Keir Starmer is such a long way in front then?
    Union bullies.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.

    We had borders before Brexit.
    We just didn't look after them very well.




    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.

    Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.




    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.


    True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.



    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.

    I don't think you will.
    How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?




    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.

    We have always had borders.
    We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.



    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.

    You don't matter very much.
    People running big businesses do care.




    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.

    We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.


    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.

    Who will suffer?


    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.

    We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.



    It only gets a mention every now and then.

    I worry about you on times.

    You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?

    You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.

    As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.

    Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.

    When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.

    They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.

    Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.

    Well how did they get here?

    They are not from within the EU.

    We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.

    So immigration is increasing.

    Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.

    Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.


    There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.


    I never suggested I did.
    I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU.
    The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago.
    For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago.
    Yet they haven't bothered.
    We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit.
    Try getting into the US.
    We could have adopted similar measures.
    The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders.
    We are amateurs in comparison.
    We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.




    Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself.
    So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often.
    Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.


    Don't understand the point.




    History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.




    Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.


    I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
    That is completely irrelevant to this argument.
    There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.


    Better include the ones that fold through the effects of the virus.
    I am just not sure if you understand this argument.

    I just keep repeating myself.

    Boris has a choice.

    The choice was to remain closely aligned to the EU, and cause the least damage to our economy.

    He has chosen to diverge and cause more damage.

    That was his choice.

    He has already made it.

    The virus will cause damage, but nobody is to blame.

    All the Government can do is mitigate this damage.

    Boris has chosen to damage our economy through Brexit.
    Who’s “ choice”?
    Don’t quote Boris for Christ’s sake.
    Whose choice do you think it is?
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    I can’t for some reason reply to Haysies questions as the posts are too long.Are the media sitting in on negotiations? Are they being live streamed?Dont think so.
    Re Tony Blair. He did do some very good things for the NHS, but also some very bad things.
    If all you want is a shorter waiting time, I’m sure that’s quite an easy fix.
    But if you’re referring to funding to the whole of the NHS, then my black hole awaits.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    edited March 2020
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    After googling for Brexit news, there’s still nothing to see.
    Nothing we don’t already know. Exciting times!

    Do you think we should remain closely aligned and protect the economy, or diverge and purposely damage it?

    And why?

    Do you think Boris has a mandate to diverge?

    If so where from?

    Does leaving with a Norway plus deal, still amount to leaving?

    As we already conduct some checks between NI, and UK, which are done on the ferries to avoid delays. Do you think that in the light of the fact that we are about to employ 50,000 staff to process the additional post Brexit paperwork, in addition to a large number of extra Customs Officers. That we may have chosen to employ extra staff to carry out checks on the ferries, and therefore avoid delays, in order to avoid drug, and people smuggling, that this could have been implemented many years ago, and avoided any dead bodies turning up in trucks?

    Do you agree that we didn't need to leave the EU, to provide more protection for our borders?

    The Tory Party was fairly recently conducting an ABB campaign. This stood for anyone but Boris. What changed?

    Boris has made it clear that he will not extend the EU trade negotiations past the end of December. Do you agree with this?

    Or do you think he should focus on the best deal for the UK, however long that takes?

    Do you think we will attract many foreign manufacturers to the UK, post Brexit. Or do you think that they will be more likely to set up in Europe, to access a bigger market?
    I don’t mind checks, as that’s showing responsibility.

    Why haven't they done them before?


    Whether or not this Government sticks to this year for a deal of some sort to be done who knows.

    Why have an unnecessary deadline, that may jeopardise the deal?

    Boris had clearly stated that he wont extend the transition, and we will leave at the end of the year, with or without a deal.


    Obv the strategy is to focus on doing whatever deal may be possible in a shorter than the average time.Focuses the minds, which can’t be a bad thing.


    Nonsense both sides want a deal, and both sides lose out if there is no deal. That is a fact. Although you don't seem to be keen on facts.


    I would keep my strategy or intentions under wraps anyway.

    Impossible.


    But of course the media seem to think they need to know everything.

    The media has a responsibility to inform the electorate.



    Coming out of the EU and alignment with their rules doesn’t look a good mix.

    Only if you wished to cause the most damage possible to our economy.



    Don’t hold your breath for alignment .

    I am not, Boris has already decided.



    There could be a challenging recession due to the virus, even more by the disruption.
    That could potentially change attitudes towards any deals.

    Causing more damage, but irrelevant to the deal.

    If the virus causes damage to the economy, which seems likely, then it is all the more reason to lose as little trade as possible with the EU.

    That is not the Boris plan.


    Maybe we should get our arses over to Mexico, it could be the new China.
    I think China will fall out of favor.
    I’ve been telling a Property developer I do work for, for a number of years that Carney should have increased rates, then you have wiggle room for cuts if there’s a crisis.
    First Carney says the BOE aren’t going to move until the unemployment hits his target, which it did. Then he says it’s not going to move unless there’s inflation, which he apparently says there wasn’t, even though I could personally see there was.
    Yup, I don’t like Carney,and vice versa I hope👍

    Yawn.


    Were the questions too difficult?

    I think this is a very half hearted attempt at a response.
    Yawn? By cutting interest rates you can maybe save businesses and jobs.
    Too late now though.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    madprof said:

    How can you tell if BoJo is lying?.........his lips are moving!

    The only person in the world that doesn't see that is Chilling.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    Best description I’ve heard for Brexit, courtesy of Bill Bailey; comedian and musician is it’s s
    “Shakespearean sh it show..”

    Many leavers may appreciate that a bit more at the beginning of next year.
    You would. You’re a remainer. I wouldn’t expect any different.
    Don't understand your point, it is not clear.

    I was a remainer, we are now definitely leaving.
    I’m waiting to see what happens, others seem to have a crystal ball.
    I do like a bit of forecasting though👍
    No forecasting required.

    You don't have to wait and see just listen to your hero.

    You don't seem to be using google very well.




    Why Boris's Brexit bill makes EU tariffs almost inevitable
    www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/20/boriss...
    20/12/2019 · Matters could be further complicated by the deal reached to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, with possible difficulties caused by the UK diverging from EU standards while one part of it is...


    Boris Johnson's push to diverge from EU regulations lacks ...
    www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris...
    Boris Johnson’s push to diverge from key EU regulations in the Brexit trade talks is not as popular among the public as the government assumes, according to polling guru professor John Curtice.


    The Guardian view on Boris Johnson’s Brexit breach: rift with ...
    www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/...
    09/09/2019 · The Guardian view on Boris Johnson’s Brexit breach: rift with EU could be here to stay ... May that negotiated the withdrawal agreement with the European Union. ... purpose rather than diverging ...


    UK to diverge from EU data protection rules, Johnson confirms ...
    www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/uk-to...
    The United Kingdom will seek to diverge from EU data protection rules and establish their own 'sovereign' controls in the field, the UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Monday (3 February). His...

    Boris Johnson to reject regulatory alignment in EU trade ...
    www.ft.com/content/2e255fd2-45a3-11ea-aeb3...
    Boris Johnson’s government has said the UK will reject any trade deal with the EU that includes “high alignment” on rules with the bloc and any future role for the European Court of Justice. The...

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    After googling for Brexit news, there’s still nothing to see.
    Nothing we don’t already know. Exciting times!

    Do you think we should remain closely aligned and protect the economy, or diverge and purposely damage it?

    And why?

    Do you think Boris has a mandate to diverge?

    If so where from?

    Does leaving with a Norway plus deal, still amount to leaving?

    As we already conduct some checks between NI, and UK, which are done on the ferries to avoid delays. Do you think that in the light of the fact that we are about to employ 50,000 staff to process the additional post Brexit paperwork, in addition to a large number of extra Customs Officers. That we may have chosen to employ extra staff to carry out checks on the ferries, and therefore avoid delays, in order to avoid drug, and people smuggling, that this could have been implemented many years ago, and avoided any dead bodies turning up in trucks?

    Do you agree that we didn't need to leave the EU, to provide more protection for our borders?

    The Tory Party was fairly recently conducting an ABB campaign. This stood for anyone but Boris. What changed?

    Boris has made it clear that he will not extend the EU trade negotiations past the end of December. Do you agree with this?

    Or do you think he should focus on the best deal for the UK, however long that takes?

    Do you think we will attract many foreign manufacturers to the UK, post Brexit. Or do you think that they will be more likely to set up in Europe, to access a bigger market?
    So I’ve heard from mates,a divorce is very traumatic and damaging.
    But they come through it and kick on.
    That is a very poor response.
    Will have to come back on this in the future.
    A lot can happen between now and the years end.
    Like what?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    After googling for Brexit news, there’s still nothing to see.
    Nothing we don’t already know. Exciting times!

    Do you think we should remain closely aligned and protect the economy, or diverge and purposely damage it?

    And why?

    Do you think Boris has a mandate to diverge?

    If so where from?

    Does leaving with a Norway plus deal, still amount to leaving?

    As we already conduct some checks between NI, and UK, which are done on the ferries to avoid delays. Do you think that in the light of the fact that we are about to employ 50,000 staff to process the additional post Brexit paperwork, in addition to a large number of extra Customs Officers. That we may have chosen to employ extra staff to carry out checks on the ferries, and therefore avoid delays, in order to avoid drug, and people smuggling, that this could have been implemented many years ago, and avoided any dead bodies turning up in trucks?

    Do you agree that we didn't need to leave the EU, to provide more protection for our borders?

    The Tory Party was fairly recently conducting an ABB campaign. This stood for anyone but Boris. What changed?

    Boris has made it clear that he will not extend the EU trade negotiations past the end of December. Do you agree with this?

    Or do you think he should focus on the best deal for the UK, however long that takes?

    Do you think we will attract many foreign manufacturers to the UK, post Brexit. Or do you think that they will be more likely to set up in Europe, to access a bigger market?
    I don’t mind checks, as that’s showing responsibility.

    Why haven't they done them before?


    Whether or not this Government sticks to this year for a deal of some sort to be done who knows.

    Why have an unnecessary deadline, that may jeopardise the deal?

    Boris had clearly stated that he wont extend the transition, and we will leave at the end of the year, with or without a deal.


    Obv the strategy is to focus on doing whatever deal may be possible in a shorter than the average time.Focuses the minds, which can’t be a bad thing.


    Nonsense both sides want a deal, and both sides lose out if there is no deal. That is a fact. Although you don't seem to be keen on facts.


    I would keep my strategy or intentions under wraps anyway.

    Impossible.


    But of course the media seem to think they need to know everything.

    The media has a responsibility to inform the electorate.



    Coming out of the EU and alignment with their rules doesn’t look a good mix.

    Only if you wished to cause the most damage possible to our economy.



    Don’t hold your breath for alignment .

    I am not, Boris has already decided.



    There could be a challenging recession due to the virus, even more by the disruption.
    That could potentially change attitudes towards any deals.

    Causing more damage, but irrelevant to the deal.

    If the virus causes damage to the economy, which seems likely, then it is all the more reason to lose as little trade as possible with the EU.

    That is not the Boris plan.


    Maybe we should get our arses over to Mexico, it could be the new China.
    I think China will fall out of favor.
    I’ve been telling a Property developer I do work for, for a number of years that Carney should have increased rates, then you have wiggle room for cuts if there’s a crisis.
    First Carney says the BOE aren’t going to move until the unemployment hits his target, which it did. Then he says it’s not going to move unless there’s inflation, which he apparently says there wasn’t, even though I could personally see there was.
    Yup, I don’t like Carney,and vice versa I hope👍

    Yawn.


    Were the questions too difficult?

    I think this is a very half hearted attempt at a response.
    Yawn? By cutting interest rates you can maybe save businesses and jobs.
    Too late now though.
    I am not disputing that some measures may be taken to stimulate the economy, and offset the damage caused by the virus.

    You just don't seem to understand his intentions when it comes to the Brexit trade deal.

    The questions weren't very difficult.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    I’ll finish with what a good strategy by Erdogan.👏
    With sky reporters reporting inside Idlib for a while now, and the world watches and does nothing,that was a mighty fine move. Well thought out.
    So Idlib gets flattened, more refugees enter Turkey.
    Then after a while you send them back to nothing?

    Which bit is good?
    The ceasefire.
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Boris is a chancer, but sometimes chancers win.

    And?
    He could become a good PM. Obv.
    Who would your choice be for PM if you had the choice of the whole house?
    Beth Rigby.
    Strange choice.
    I’ve never heard her ask a question that even I couldn’t give the expected reply to.
    Not exactly rhetorical questions, but close.
    I presume you would like her to stand for the Labour Party then.
    She’s female though, I’m not sure Labour want to be that radical.
    I wasn't aware that you were a Beth Rigby expert.
    As I have pointed out a number of times before, I have not ever voted Labour.
    I think that any Political Party should choose the best candidate as their leader rather than perhaps just picking a woman for the sake of it.
    I am.
    As for the Labour leader,the best candidate would be either of the women imo.
    If it goes pear shaped for this government, then the Labour Party could have anyone as leader and be successful.Joe Bloggs or even Joanne Bloggs.
    Why do you think that Keir Starmer is such a long way in front then?
    Union bullies.
    Unite are supporting Rebecca Wrong-Daily.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897



    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.

    We had borders before Brexit.
    We just didn't look after them very well.




    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.

    Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.




    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.


    True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.



    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.

    I don't think you will.
    How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?




    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.

    We have always had borders.
    We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.



    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.

    You don't matter very much.
    People running big businesses do care.




    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.

    We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.


    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.

    Who will suffer?


    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.

    We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.



    It only gets a mention every now and then.

    I worry about you on times.

    You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?

    You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.

    As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.

    Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.

    When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.

    They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.

    Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.

    Well how did they get here?

    They are not from within the EU.

    We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.

    So immigration is increasing.

    Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.

    Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.


    There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.


    I never suggested I did.
    I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU.
    The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago.
    For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago.
    Yet they haven't bothered.
    We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit.
    Try getting into the US.
    We could have adopted similar measures.
    The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders.
    We are amateurs in comparison.
    We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.




    Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself.
    So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often.
    Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.


    Don't understand the point.




    History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.




    Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.


    I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
    That is completely irrelevant to this argument.
    There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.


    Better include the ones that fold through the effects of the virus.
    I am just not sure if you understand this argument.

    I just keep repeating myself.

    Boris has a choice.

    The choice was to remain closely aligned to the EU, and cause the least damage to our economy.

    He has chosen to diverge and cause more damage.

    That was his choice.

    He has already made it.

    The virus will cause damage, but nobody is to blame.

    All the Government can do is mitigate this damage.

    Boris has chosen to damage our economy through Brexit.
    Who’s “ choice”?
    Don’t quote Boris for Christ’s sake.
    Whose choice do you think it is?
    ?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.

    We had borders before Brexit.
    We just didn't look after them very well.




    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.

    Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.




    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.


    True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.



    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.

    I don't think you will.
    How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?




    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.

    We have always had borders.
    We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.



    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.

    You don't matter very much.
    People running big businesses do care.




    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.

    We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.


    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.

    Who will suffer?


    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.

    We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.



    It only gets a mention every now and then.

    I worry about you on times.

    You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?

    You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.

    As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.

    Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.

    When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.

    They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.

    Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.

    Well how did they get here?

    They are not from within the EU.

    We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.

    So immigration is increasing.

    Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.

    Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.


    There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.


    I never suggested I did.
    I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU.
    The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago.
    For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago.
    Yet they haven't bothered.
    We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit.
    Try getting into the US.
    We could have adopted similar measures.
    The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders.
    We are amateurs in comparison.
    We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.




    Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself.
    So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often.
    Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.


    Don't understand the point.




    History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.




    Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.


    I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
    That is completely irrelevant to this argument.
    There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.


    Better include the ones that fold through the effects of the virus.
    I am just not sure if you understand this argument.

    I just keep repeating myself.

    Boris has a choice.

    The choice was to remain closely aligned to the EU, and cause the least damage to our economy.

    He has chosen to diverge and cause more damage.

    That was his choice.

    He has already made it.

    The virus will cause damage, but nobody is to blame.

    All the Government can do is mitigate this damage.

    Boris has chosen to damage our economy through Brexit.
    Who’s “ choice”?
    Don’t quote Boris for Christ’s sake.
    Whose choice do you think it is?
    ?
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