You are clearly making assumptions about what is likely to happen post brexit ... we don't even know Brexit is even going to happen . Either way , to say you can't retire to France (albeit with different procedures ) , is plainly ridiculous ! You are also making the assumption that people who retire to France wouldn't be interested in applying for French citizenship
No I am merely pointing out that after the end of Freedom of Movement, different criteria will apply, which will preclude many people, or did you not understand the article that you posted.
We currently have freedom of movement, as we are EU members.
The article clearly points out the differences between the current situation, the transition period, and after we have left.
Nope this is what you said " He wouldn't have been able to retire to France, if we had already done Brexit." And it's not true ..fact ! It's more Brexit scaremongering bs
You are clearly making assumptions about what is likely to happen post brexit ... we don't even know Brexit is even going to happen . Either way , to say you can't retire to France (albeit with different procedures ) , is plainly ridiculous ! You are also making the assumption that people who retire to France wouldn't be interested in applying for French citizenship
No I am merely pointing out that after the end of Freedom of Movement, different criteria will apply, which will preclude many people, or did you not understand the article that you posted.
We currently have freedom of movement, as we are EU members.
The article clearly points out the differences between the current situation, the transition period, and after we have left.
Nope this is what you said " He wouldn't have been able to retire to France, if we had already done Brexit." And it's not true ..fact ! It's more Brexit scaremongering bs
Youre right. What I should have said, in response to a humorous comment on another thread, is that Post Brexit retirement to France, will be still possible, despite the qualification criteria that many people will fail to meet.
May set to reveal plan to ditch backstop to win over Brexit rebels
Theresa May is expected to set out plans to axe the Irish backstop from her Brexit deal with the EU, as she shuns efforts to find a cross-party consensus and focus on winning over the DUP and rebels in her own party. From her countryside retreat of Chequers on Sunday, the prime minister convened a conference call with her cabinet. She briefed them on her recent calls with EU leaders and how she plans to respond to the historic defeat of her Brexit deal in the Commons last week.
You are clearly making assumptions about what is likely to happen post brexit ... we don't even know Brexit is even going to happen . Either way , to say you can't retire to France (albeit with different procedures ) , is plainly ridiculous ! You are also making the assumption that people who retire to France wouldn't be interested in applying for French citizenship
No I am merely pointing out that after the end of Freedom of Movement, different criteria will apply, which will preclude many people, or did you not understand the article that you posted.
We currently have freedom of movement, as we are EU members.
The article clearly points out the differences between the current situation, the transition period, and after we have left.
Nope this is what you said " He wouldn't have been able to retire to France, if we had already done Brexit." And it's not true ..fact ! It's more Brexit scaremongering bs
Youre right. What I should have said, in response to a humorous comment on another thread, is that Post Brexit retirement to France, will be still possible, despite the qualification criteria that many people will fail to meet.
Excellent , glad that misinformation has now been corrected .
Talking of “misinformation “ The following was posted on a political forum -
This is what happens if we stay in the EU:
WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY
THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL.IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THE DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIMERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future if we remain in the EU. There will no longer be a Great Britain.
Talking of “misinformation “ The following was posted on a political forum -
This is what happens if we stay in the EU:
WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY
THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL.IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THE DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIMERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future if we remain in the EU. There will no longer be a Great Britain.
As I know nothing about the lisbon treaty and don't have the time or the energy today ..perhaps you would like to summarise which of the 26 points you think are misinformation and the rationale behind it ?
Talking of “misinformation “ The following was posted on a political forum -
This is what happens if we stay in the EU:
WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY
THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL.IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THE DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIMERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future if we remain in the EU. There will no longer be a Great Britain.
I couldn't believe much of this.
Assuming we didn't leave, we would still have the right to leave at any point in the future, and certainly would if this were true.
I cant believe that The Leave Campaign would not have used this information if it were true, not that truth was ever important to them.
Many British people will feel that we are no longer a Great Britain to them.
The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement that amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009.
Some sort of link to the complete Lisbon treaty policies would be quite helpful ...my googling is not up to scratch today . I think it would be interesting to explore in greater detail all of the 26 points in detail ...in an unbiased no remain /leave way .
Some sort of link to the complete Lisbon treaty policies would be quite helpful ...my googling is not up to scratch today . I think it would be interesting to explore in greater detail all of the 26 points in detail ...in an unbiased no remain /leave way .
I'm thinking this excerpt from that article might be pretty accurate " Confusing. Unintelligible. Impenetrable. This is the general reaction of anyone who has read or attempted to read the Lisbon Treaty, from politicians to pundits to ordinary people trying to find the facts."
Talking of “misinformation “ The following was posted on a political forum -
This is what happens if we stay in the EU:
WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY
THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL.IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THE DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIMERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future if we remain in the EU. There will no longer be a Great Britain.
Ridiculous, stupid article. Think the clue was in using the term "remaimers". What people in this country need to recognise is that the EU impacts upon us far less than people think. It lets all its members do whatever they want EXCEPT when there is an EU rule in place, which is far less common than people think.
Taking these points in turn:-
1.Half true. It has always been a bit weird that any country could veto something, thereby preventing progress. This will be replaced with an amended majority vote-things must be agreed by 55% votes/66% of the EU population. 2. Nonsense 3. Nonsense 4. Nonsense 5. Half true. In the limited areas that EU Law applies, it is already true 6. That is just repeating 1 7. True where there is already an EU deal in place 8. Repeats 7 9. Repeats 7 10. Not clear 11. News to me 12. Don't know this one. I DO know that us not joining Schengen has cost us £Billions of foreign investment, particularly from the Far East 13. Nonsense 14. a long-term aim of the EU (and one I totally disagree with) but not contained in this Treaty 15. Already true. We are in control of about 98% of it, but bits (such as certain VAT rules) are EU-led 16. Nonsense. It has already lost the ability to create laws where EU laws apply-but that is rare 17. Nonsense 18. Nonsense 19. See 16 20. Disingenuous 21. Technically true, though key word is "full"-it will retain the vast majority 22. Nonsense 23. We don't have one. We are about to lose the EU one we are in 24. Nonsense 25. Technically true, though merely means any rebate will be renegotiated 26. No-one knows, though likely to increase over time
It's precisely this sort of ill-informed twaddle that makes this country the laughing stock of Europe.
Well the link is there if anyone has the time to explore the issues for themselves ..just have a case of migraine tablets ready ..personally I would prefer to verify the facts myself from an official document than rely on one persons take on it . So for now I will defer from forming an opinion on the article Tom posted .
Comments
And it's not true ..fact !
It's more Brexit scaremongering bs
What I should have said, in response to a humorous comment on another thread, is that Post Brexit retirement to France, will be still possible, despite the qualification criteria that many people will fail to meet.
Theresa May is expected to set out plans to axe the Irish backstop from her Brexit deal with the EU, as she shuns efforts to find a cross-party consensus and focus on winning over the DUP and rebels in her own party.
From her countryside retreat of Chequers on Sunday, the prime minister convened a conference call with her cabinet.
She briefed them on her recent calls with EU leaders and how she plans to respond to the historic defeat of her Brexit deal in the Commons last week.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/may-set-to-reveal-plan-to-ditch-backstop-to-win-over-brexit-rebels/ar-BBSvDYo?ocid=spartanntp
The following was posted on a political forum -
This is what happens if we stay in the EU:
WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY
THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL.IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THE DEAL WAS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIMERS..
“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future if we remain in the EU. There will no longer be a Great Britain.
Assuming we didn't leave, we would still have the right to leave at any point in the future, and certainly would if this were true.
I cant believe that The Leave Campaign would not have used this information if it were true, not that truth was ever important to them.
Many British people will feel that we are no longer a Great Britain to them.
The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement that amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon
The Lisbon Treaty for dummies
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-lisbon-treaty-for-dummies-26447679.html
What people in this country need to recognise is that the EU impacts upon us far less than people think. It lets all its members do whatever they want EXCEPT when there is an EU rule in place, which is far less common than people think.
Taking these points in turn:-
1.Half true. It has always been a bit weird that any country could veto something, thereby preventing progress. This will be replaced with an amended majority vote-things must be agreed by 55% votes/66% of the EU population.
2. Nonsense
3. Nonsense
4. Nonsense
5. Half true. In the limited areas that EU Law applies, it is already true
6. That is just repeating 1
7. True where there is already an EU deal in place
8. Repeats 7
9. Repeats 7
10. Not clear
11. News to me
12. Don't know this one. I DO know that us not joining Schengen has cost us £Billions of foreign investment, particularly from the Far East
13. Nonsense
14. a long-term aim of the EU (and one I totally disagree with) but not contained in this Treaty
15. Already true. We are in control of about 98% of it, but bits (such as certain VAT rules) are EU-led
16. Nonsense. It has already lost the ability to create laws where EU laws apply-but that is rare
17. Nonsense
18. Nonsense
19. See 16
20. Disingenuous
21. Technically true, though key word is "full"-it will retain the vast majority
22. Nonsense
23. We don't have one. We are about to lose the EU one we are in
24. Nonsense
25. Technically true, though merely means any rebate will be renegotiated
26. No-one knows, though likely to increase over time
It's precisely this sort of ill-informed twaddle that makes this country the laughing stock of Europe.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2007.306.01.0001.01.ENG&toc=OJ:C:2007:306:TOC