"spins it into the Tommy Robinson show".........come on even you dont believe in that. Turn your hate for Tommy Robinson into the direction of those who he is against.
The problem isnt Tommy Robinson. If the media did their job people like Robinson wouldnt exist.
Yes I do believe in that because he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Why did he go to Leeds? Cos he cared about the victims? Or cos he knew he could make it all about himself? He has an anti-Muslim agenda to push, after all, and his sad gullible followers lap up every word.
Thankfully he's behind bars where he belongs to be. Perhaps he could use that time to write an autobiography. A title like 'my struggle' or 'my fight' sounds about right.
"spins it into the Tommy Robinson show".........come on even you dont believe in that. Turn your hate for Tommy Robinson into the direction of those who he is against.
The problem isnt Tommy Robinson. If the media did their job people like Robinson wouldnt exist.
Really Tommy Robinson isn't a problem ? The convicted criminal and hatemonger isn't a problem. Before you edited your post you said it was a small section of muslims again really ? Read Pingus post above and tell me the problem is a muslim problem. The guy is a thug using them poor unfortunate children to further his hate.
Source? 1400 in Rochdale alone. Newcastle - 700 Telford - Up to a 1000 Think that constitutes 1000's and there are dozens of other towns where this has happened and still happening.
That's not a source, that's you writing some numbers and hoping they'll be taken as gospel. FYI, your figure for Rochdale is almost 3000% higher than the source I found, which found only 47 victims of sexual assault by Pakistani Muslims, not 1400.
"Five girls were initially identified as victims of child sexual exploitation, but during the course of the police investigation involving the nine offenders – who were chiefly British Pakistani men with ordinary jobs, often married and well-respected within their community – the police identified a further 42 victims."
Newcastle: My source states 108 as opposed to your 700.
"The trials were the result of police investigation Operation Shelter, which fell under the umbrella of Operation Sanctuary – Northumbria police’s investigation into the sexual exploitation of children and adults with vulnerabilities. Police identified as many as 108 potential victims in Operation Shelter and 278 victims in the wider Operation Sanctuary."
Telford: I have found a Guardian article that refers to "Up to a thousand" in Telford, however this is over a 40 year period and makes no mention of offenders' ethnicity over that time.
I would expect a few thousand of sexual assaults each year to be committed by Asian Muslims, in keeping with Asian Muslims making up a percentage of our population and the sheer volume of sexual assaults that take place in this country, unfortunately.
In the overall population of England and Wales 86% of people were white in 2011 (at the last census), 8% of the population was of Asian ethnicity, and 3% was black. Of course this will vary from place to place around the country."
"Almost 85% of offenders found guilty of sexual activity with a minor in England and Wales in 2011 were white. 3% were black and 4% were Asian and the rest were either listed as ‘other’ or unknown.
But these figures don’t tell us everything about sexual offences committed against children. For example, if someone is found guilty of raping a child under the age of 16, this will appear in the figures under ‘rape’ rather than ‘sexual activity with a minor’.
Where offenders’ ethnicity was known, 81% of people convicted of sexual offences in 2014 were white, 7% were black and 9% were Asian in 2014.
And would you look at that, 8% of the population makes up only 4% of those found guilty of sexual activity with a minor, and 9% of those found guilty of sexual offenses.
Given levels of institutional racism throughout Britain's legal system, as well as white people being wealthier* allowing access better to legal defense in the event of trial for sexual assault, it isn't unreasonable to suggest that a randomly selected white person could actually be more likely to commit a sexual assault than a randomly selected Asian person.
~1500 victims (~1300 female), 110 suspects over 16 years, 80% Pakistani. All of a similar age group, too.
Still, this behaviour is specific to a select gender and age group of people of Pakistani descent, so you can't take the behaviour of a minority of middle aged Pakistani men then apply it to a religion, nationality or culture in its entirety.
There's not an abnormally high number Pakistani women gang raping white men. There's also not an abnormally high number of Bangladeshi, Afghan, Malaysian or Turkish immigrants sexually assaulting anyone.
The numbers I posted here yesterday (8% of the population are Asian, and they are committing 9% of sexual offences) would suggest that the 'grooming gang' statistics are nothing more than Pakistani men committing sexual offences in a different way to that which is typical in Western society.
People can pull stats and sources to fit there narrative it seems.
I used to follow Tommy Robinson and when you surround yourself with so much negativity and are fed news line after news line it changes your perspective on things, had 2 unfollow him as didnt want that negativity in my life.
I wish him no harm and hope he returns safely to his wife and children and will leave it as that.
I'm not going to enter the Tommy Robinson debate, but I loved this line;
"....when you surround yourself with so much negativity and are fed news line after news line it changes your perspective on things, had 2 unfollow him as didnt want that negativity in my life...."
Amen to that. I decided to leave Facebook for exactly those reasons, some 5 or 6 years ago, & my outlook on life improved beyond recognition.
Fascinating thread. It has really helped give confirmation about things we suspected but now know for sure to be true.... Obv by that I mean stuff like Pingu is clearly a Guardian reader.
Any paedophile from whatever racial/ethnic/religious background are scum and deserve to put away for life imo.
However everyone deserves a fair trail and no victims should be denied justice due to any "journalist" ignoring a court order and putting prosecution at risk.
Makes me angry that those of a right wing anti immigrant persuasion are trying to gain political capital out of these grooming gang trials. It was the white elite who successfully blocked investigations/prosecutions into institutional paedophilia from predominantly white priests/politicians/TV personalities etc for decades.
Most of those victims sadly never had the chance to see justice.
Any paedophile from whatever racial/ethnic/religious background are scum and deserve to put away for life imo.
However everyone deserves a fair trail and no victims should be denied justice due to any "journalist" ignoring a court order and putting prosecution at risk.
Makes me angry that those of a right wing anti immigrant persuasion are trying to gain political capital out of these grooming gang trials. It was the white elite who successfully blocked investigations/prosecutions into institutional paedophilia from predominantly white priests/politicians/TV personalities etc for decades.
Most of those victims sadly never had the chance to see justice.
Very well said and the bolded bit basically sums it up.
Some seem unable to grasp it, but TR should not have been outside court. By doing so he is jeopardising the whole court process and potentially ensuring the victims don't see any justice.
Actions speak louder than words, and his actions on Friday show that he was putting his anti-Muslim agenda above the welfare of the girls involved.
Thankfully, this career criminal has another stretch in jail to look forward to.
Quite interesting what you can find when browsing a poker forum.
A few things strike me when reading through this exchange, but I'm glad someone has posted Maajid's thoughts.
This is an emerging problem with the 'far left'. It's so ****-bent on not causing offence to anyone, that when issues such as this arise no-one from the mainstream media wants to risk going anywhere near it for fear of the backlash.
This perversely leaves the void in which rotters like Tommy Robinson can step in and start getting traction.
Certain facts or statistics are ignored or manipulated to ensure the message is not misunderstood.
The key word here is 'gang' - Therefore the statistic merely suggests a difference in the way in which the crime is committed by people within that demographic.
"Merely"! The 'modus operandi' as you say, is the important thing here. If, as suggested, these groups are operating within a cultural norm then that needs highlighting. Similarly, where crime rings exist within other cultures (which we've seen in the Savile/celeb exploitation), then it's vitally important that it's shut down and people are made aware of what's gone on.
One girl abused by a gang is no more or less important than one abused by a single family member, but clearly the scale is different. If the culture is supporting and reinforcing networks of offenders, it should be dealt with as a priority. One good bit of policing could save thousands of future offences.
institutional racism is still very much a thing in the UK.
Source? Institutional racism in the past, yes, various inquiries have concluded this. But the view that the system is still fundamentally corrupt is now being cited as the reason why police didn't want to intervene, they didn't want to appear to be racist.
Of course, it's easier for the left to hear this from Maajid, than any random white guy.
So we land in an interesting place where anyone who says they're outraged by these crimes has to fear being grouped up with the far right nationalists because of everyone's knee-jerks to ringfence everyone in this massive game of identity politics.
Comments
Why did he go to Leeds? Cos he cared about the victims? Or cos he knew he could make it all about himself? He has an anti-Muslim agenda to push, after all, and his sad gullible followers lap up every word.
Thankfully he's behind bars where he belongs to be. Perhaps he could use that time to write an autobiography. A title like 'my struggle' or 'my fight' sounds about right.
TV, best selling books, millions of views.
I feel sorry for his wife and kids though.
"Five girls were initially identified as victims of child sexual exploitation, but during the course of the police investigation involving the nine offenders – who were chiefly British Pakistani men with ordinary jobs, often married and well-respected within their community – the police identified a further 42 victims."
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/08/rochdale-child-sex-ring-case
---
Newcastle: My source states 108 as opposed to your 700.
"The trials were the result of police investigation Operation Shelter, which fell under the umbrella of Operation Sanctuary – Northumbria police’s investigation into the sexual exploitation of children and adults with vulnerabilities. Police identified as many as 108 potential victims in Operation Shelter and 278 victims in the wider Operation Sanctuary."
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/09/newcastle-sex-grooming-network-operation-shelter
---
Telford: I have found a Guardian article that refers to "Up to a thousand" in Telford, however this is over a 40 year period and makes no mention of offenders' ethnicity over that time.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/12/1000-children-victims-worst-uk-abuse-ring-telford
---
I would expect a few thousand of sexual assaults each year to be committed by Asian Muslims, in keeping with Asian Muslims making up a percentage of our population and the sheer volume of sexual assaults that take place in this country, unfortunately. And would you look at that, 8% of the population makes up only 4% of those found guilty of sexual activity with a minor, and 9% of those found guilty of sexual offenses.
Given levels of institutional racism throughout Britain's legal system, as well as white people being wealthier* allowing access better to legal defense in the event of trial for sexual assault, it isn't unreasonable to suggest that a randomly selected white person could actually be more likely to commit a sexual assault than a randomly selected Asian person.
*(Sources: 1 - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/07/minority-ethnic-families-earning-less-white-britons-uk-pay-gap
2 - https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest )
Should have typed Rotherham
As you like sources:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-grooming-gangs-1500-victims-investigation-police-national-crime-agency-pakistani-white-a8219971.html
One from your favourite rag:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/23/northumbria-police-operation-sanctuary-newcastle-grooming-gangs-case-review
~1500 victims (~1300 female), 110 suspects over 16 years, 80% Pakistani. All of a similar age group, too.
Still, this behaviour is specific to a select gender and age group of people of Pakistani descent, so you can't take the behaviour of a minority of middle aged Pakistani men then apply it to a religion, nationality or culture in its entirety.
There's not an abnormally high number Pakistani women gang raping white men. There's also not an abnormally high number of Bangladeshi, Afghan, Malaysian or Turkish immigrants sexually assaulting anyone.
The numbers I posted here yesterday (8% of the population are Asian, and they are committing 9% of sexual offences) would suggest that the 'grooming gang' statistics are nothing more than Pakistani men committing sexual offences in a different way to that which is typical in Western society.
I used to follow Tommy Robinson and when you surround yourself with so much negativity and are fed news line after news line it changes your perspective on things, had 2 unfollow him as didnt want that negativity in my life.
I wish him no harm and hope he returns safely to his wife and children and will leave it as that.
I'm not going to enter the Tommy Robinson debate, but I loved this line;
"....when you surround yourself with so much negativity and are fed news line after news line it changes your perspective on things, had 2 unfollow him as didnt want that negativity in my life...."
Amen to that. I decided to leave Facebook for exactly those reasons, some 5 or 6 years ago, & my outlook on life improved beyond recognition.
So much negativity, & I cba with it.
It has really helped give confirmation about things we suspected but now know for sure to be true....
Obv by that I mean stuff like Pingu is clearly a Guardian reader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44287640
Any paedophile from whatever racial/ethnic/religious background are scum and deserve to put away for life imo.
However everyone deserves a fair trail and no victims should be denied justice due to any "journalist" ignoring a court order and putting prosecution at risk.
Makes me angry that those of a right wing anti immigrant persuasion are trying to gain political capital out of these grooming gang trials. It was the white elite who successfully blocked investigations/prosecutions into institutional paedophilia from predominantly white priests/politicians/TV personalities etc for decades.
Most of those victims sadly never had the chance to see justice.
Some seem unable to grasp it, but TR should not have been outside court. By doing so he is jeopardising the whole court process and potentially ensuring the victims don't see any justice.
Actions speak louder than words, and his actions on Friday show that he was putting his anti-Muslim agenda above the welfare of the girls involved.
Thankfully, this career criminal has another stretch in jail to look forward to.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/05/25/what-has-happened-to-poor-tommy-robinson/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I was just repaying the favour as I’ve found your posts to be very insightful
He is criticising the police and prosecutors who held back on investigations and prosecutions.
He is criticising mainstream media and politicians for not speaking out about the issue.
I doubt whether the above was wholly down to a fear of appearing racist, but it was clearly a factor.
A few things strike me when reading through this exchange, but I'm glad someone has posted Maajid's thoughts.
This is an emerging problem with the 'far left'. It's so ****-bent on not causing offence to anyone, that when issues such as this arise no-one from the mainstream media wants to risk going anywhere near it for fear of the backlash.
This perversely leaves the void in which rotters like Tommy Robinson can step in and start getting traction.
Certain facts or statistics are ignored or manipulated to ensure the message is not misunderstood.
"Merely"! The 'modus operandi' as you say, is the important thing here. If, as suggested, these groups are operating within a cultural norm then that needs highlighting. Similarly, where crime rings exist within other cultures (which we've seen in the Savile/celeb exploitation), then it's vitally important that it's shut down and people are made aware of what's gone on.
One girl abused by a gang is no more or less important than one abused by a single family member, but clearly the scale is different. If the culture is supporting and reinforcing networks of offenders, it should be dealt with as a priority. One good bit of policing could save thousands of future offences. Source? Institutional racism in the past, yes, various inquiries have concluded this. But the view that the system is still fundamentally corrupt is now being cited as the reason why police didn't want to intervene, they didn't want to appear to be racist.
Of course, it's easier for the left to hear this from Maajid, than any random white guy.
So we land in an interesting place where anyone who says they're outraged by these crimes has to fear being grouped up with the far right nationalists because of everyone's knee-jerks to ringfence everyone in this massive game of identity politics. Yes. It shouldn't be the default. From what I've read, I don't think Vespa is supporting him either.
Thought this was a useful reflection - aside from a couple of comments in the last two paragraphs.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/telford-and-the-left/
Meanwhile, whilst driving down the M40 today, I saw one of those billboards on a trailer in a field which they use to advertise. It read as follows;
"Pray for Tommy Robinson.
google Paul Weston"