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Sky's number one streamer/ youtuber. Regitime poker (The--Don) asked to stop media
BarrattG1
Member Posts: 46
in Poker Chat
It has come to my attention that a long time sky poker player and generally good guy who runs a twitch stream, a facebook community page and hosts youtube videos, has recently been sent a cease and desist notice of posting his youtube series of sky poker based training videos. (For clarity the issue appears to be only the inclusion of player screen-names, but we will explore why that is a big issue later in this post.)
Now let me start by saying, Paul, has generally over 1000+ combined views a week on his media, a high proportion of which are beginner level, actual real new depositors being introduced to sky. He has high retention numbers across all his social media. I believe heartily that sky poker has really, really dropped the ball as far as this email is concerned .
A smaller more community based site such as sky, should be whole heartedly latching onto the community service that Paul provides, and I'd go as far as to say, ought to be offering him a more official role within the community to help facilitate this influx of newer players.
Let me make my case as simply as I can, poker as a zero sum game, has in the last 8 years evolved into a situation where the skill gap between new entrants and the rest of the field increases ever more, you will find that this skill gap is one of the major boundaries to new depositors entering the field. A player, Youtuber, Blogger and a very active poker beginner facebook forum runner, is de facto reducing this boundary to entry, he's providing this service to the community and sky poker in general at a no cost basis, please find in the provided link https://ibb.co/b5ysDd the email sent to Paul, asking him to stop providing this wonderful service to the community.
It is both short sighted, and a mistake to not allow Paul to continue to make videos containing real screen name player data, Part of the major perks of the stream and or youtube videos is the interactivity and the poker knowledge being passed on to the viewers, changing this massively impedes this, and it would at this stage be more reasonable for a person who is a major influence on sky poker's player levels to just stop them all together and focus on actively marketing another competitor site.
I urge the big wigs to take heed of this post, carefully consider your options, and work out a solution that is going to proactively help the sky community, I suggest amending your site T+C's and offering Paul a contract of official sponsorship into sky poker to aid with his efforts to grow this community.
Now let me start by saying, Paul, has generally over 1000+ combined views a week on his media, a high proportion of which are beginner level, actual real new depositors being introduced to sky. He has high retention numbers across all his social media. I believe heartily that sky poker has really, really dropped the ball as far as this email is concerned .
A smaller more community based site such as sky, should be whole heartedly latching onto the community service that Paul provides, and I'd go as far as to say, ought to be offering him a more official role within the community to help facilitate this influx of newer players.
Let me make my case as simply as I can, poker as a zero sum game, has in the last 8 years evolved into a situation where the skill gap between new entrants and the rest of the field increases ever more, you will find that this skill gap is one of the major boundaries to new depositors entering the field. A player, Youtuber, Blogger and a very active poker beginner facebook forum runner, is de facto reducing this boundary to entry, he's providing this service to the community and sky poker in general at a no cost basis, please find in the provided link https://ibb.co/b5ysDd the email sent to Paul, asking him to stop providing this wonderful service to the community.
It is both short sighted, and a mistake to not allow Paul to continue to make videos containing real screen name player data, Part of the major perks of the stream and or youtube videos is the interactivity and the poker knowledge being passed on to the viewers, changing this massively impedes this, and it would at this stage be more reasonable for a person who is a major influence on sky poker's player levels to just stop them all together and focus on actively marketing another competitor site.
I urge the big wigs to take heed of this post, carefully consider your options, and work out a solution that is going to proactively help the sky community, I suggest amending your site T+C's and offering Paul a contract of official sponsorship into sky poker to aid with his efforts to grow this community.
Comments
I hope sky take a far more positive stance on this issue!
I think Sky have dropped a bit of a clanger with this one. Freely available poker content like this does far more good for growing the game than the harm caused by rubbing up the occasional player the wrong way. I'm guessing there may be some kind of privacy issue behind this, but that seems kind of silly when anyone can freely log-in and rail games to their hearts content.
For what it's worth, I'd played poker on other sites for years but the exposure given to Sky by @The--Don through his youtube channel was a significant factor in me starting to play here. Sky has since become my first choice site and I've subsequently raked thousands on Sky as a result.
Let the 'Save Regitime Sky Content' campaign begin...
For balance - I would suggest that Paul is both good and bad for the game in various ways. Promoting the game is obviously a wonderful thing, and I take nothing away from him there.
That said, I know he advocates things like bumhunting and seat hopping to get position on a weaker player. These things are obviously harmful to the game as a whole, and by encouraging his viewership to do similar things, the harm to the games is going to be multiplied. If he's encouraging his viewers to bumhunt, seat hop etc, then it detracts from the rec-friendly vibe that Sky has worked so hard to create over the last decade, as well as the value of the content he's producing, IMO.
Paul certainly isn't to blame for so many regs refusing to play short handed or HU against each other to start games or keep them running, but encouraging people to not play when there's too many competent players on a table certainly doesn't help the problem.
Then there's some of the criticisms and outbursts against certain players. If Paul were on Sky Poker TV back in the day, then he would have been 'fired' a million times over by now, no doubt about it. I don't watch Paul's videos (unless someone sends me a link and says "watch this" for whatever reason), but I clicked the most recent video on his channel and within the first minute, he was addressing a viewer comment about how much he swears in his videos - Then proceeds to swear.
While I personally couldn't care less if someone swears (provided it's not just straight up attacking someone), it's probably not +EV for any YouTuber to be throwing out F bombs, and for that to be associated with the Sky Poker brand from Sky's POV.
For those reasons, and particularly in light of the TSG takeover, it would not surprise me if Sky have sent this because Paul doesn't fit what SkyPoker/TSG want from someone streaming their site going forward. That's the only way that this decision would make any sense to me. Otherwise, they're just turning down free advertising.
Whatever the reasons behind this, I think Paul deserves better in any case - At least provide an explanation from someone higher up in the Sky Poker hierarchy as to the reasoning behind this decision and why it wasn't an issue a few hundred videos ago but is suddenly an issue now, with some means of direct contact to discuss the issue and how it can possibly be resolved, possibly with a view to a relationship between himself and Sky that is in the interests of both parties going forward, even if that doesn't equal sponsorship from the site.
Instead, he gets a generic message from a member of 'Customer Care Team' with some copied and pasted T&Cs that looks like it was thrown together in five minutes and looks unprofessional as **** ("Video's" and "Alais" - Seriously?) with little regard for the effort that Paul has put into building his channel over several years while bringing players to the site. Even if Sky don't want him doing videos on their site in the future, coming across more courteous and professional in this spot wouldn't have gone amiss.
EDIT: Lmao 'helll' spelt correctly is still filtered on here
I doubt him posting streaming content on other sites has anything to do with Sky even if he says xyz about xyz player. It would seem to be also pretty short sighted of Sky as the vast majority of sites out there, stars, partypoker, unibet etc actively promote streamers and indeed "sponsor" them eg pay them money for streaming.
Fwiw, the small number of times I listened to the Dons twitch found him to be quite funny and entertaining. He obviously has strong opinions and there's nothing wrong with that.
If true, seems like a bit of a misstep from sky.
Right now I'm feeling the same as @bbMike That email is a shocker
I have never viewed one of the above mentioned streams, if he berates players as to their style of play and calls them names, how is that good for the newcomers?
Someone close to me suffers from mental health issues, if they started playing and thought it a good idea to view this whilst playing for the first time I guarantee it would put them off for life.
Not to mention the muddy waters of the new data protection laws.
I had no say whatsoever in what went into the post and they are all his own words.
Also, thanks to those that have contributed so far. I wasn't expecting such a good response, so cheers.
I do the youtube stuff mostly just because I enjoy it. I do not make a single penny from youtube for the videos. I make a relatively small amount of money annually from players getting in touch asking to do some work with me.
I would still do this, even if I was not making a penny because I enjoy doing in. I clearly give more information away about myself than I ever do about any other players. Whilst I admit I do some mild trolling from time to time, I would strongly refute that I give very much away about specific players in terms of things I say about their play.
I like to think that I have helped Sky Poker way more than I have harmed them with my content in terms of bringing people to the site. I have never asked for anything from them and I don't do it in the hope of getting anything from them (although 100% rakeback wouldn't go amiss
I enjoy helping players polish up their fundamentals and passing on some relatively basic tips to newer players, or long term losing players. Of the players I have trolled in my videos (and there hasn't been very many at all) they have all acted negatively towards me in the chatbox. It's just my way of amusing myself and I never do it spitefully.
I'm sure some of the things I have said have irritated individual players but I have never knowingly, or maliciously crossed any lines and anything I say regarding individuals on video should be taken with a large pinch of salt. I make no apology for them, as without exception, the trolling is saved solely for players who have been happy to dish needles out to me, which I also think is completely fair and above board because we're all adults after all.
@EvilPingu You're 100% correct, I do encourage losing players to try and game select better. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with that. In the past, I have talked about seat switching too. Again, if it is within the rules, I don't have a problem doing it. However, you will not have heard me discuss it, or seen me do it in a long time, which is more than can be said for some of my regular opponents.
I start games on the site and often end up with one of the worst seats in the game but I don't recall switching seats for a very long time.
I also don't think I'm speaking out of line when I comment on the futility of seeing tables full of regs battling where none of them have any apparent edge vs each other. It's just an opinion and given that it still happens daily, it doesn't look like any of them are taking any notice lol.
With regard to my swearing, it is 100% my business. I don't claim to represent Sky Poker, I certainly don't receive any money for them and sure, it might even hurt the number of viewers I get. However, as said, it is nobodies business but mine unless they're paying me for the content.
Thank you for replying though. I hope you don't see my response to you as anything other than my addressing the reasonable points you made.
@masterbeat I hear what you are saying but other sites have no problem whatsoever with their games being aired on social media and some even pay people to do it for them (albeit way more professionally than me) so I don't agree that there is an issue with game integrity. As I have said previously, I try very hard not to say things like 'xyz players always has this part of his range with a certain line or sizing' I make general observations about the population as a whole and how I play differently vs regs and non regs but that is it.
I don't think a single player on Sky could say I have ever given specific advice on how to play vs them as an individual.
@LARSON7 Thank you for adding your opinion. You are someone who I have chatted with at the tables for a long time. Sometimes both of us have put the needle in but I like to think it has always been part fun/part strategy but never malicious. I didn't necessarily expect support from you, so it is super nice that you took the time to give it.
@NoseyBonk I got a call from a witheld number yesterday. I answered, it sounded like it came from a call centre and the caller hung up after a couple of seconds. This might have been Sky but I tend not to answer witheld numbers in general and might have ignored their call without remembering.
Finally, I wouldn't like to have to stop making video's in the format I currently use. I would hope that some kind of compromise could be reached. I won't be doing anything until I have had written confirmation from Sky that they won't close my account. People have suggested just blanking out players names but I'm not sure I should have to given that other, more high profile video makers and streamers aren't being asked the same thing by other, much bigger sites.
If I have genuinely upset anyone with a comment in a video, then I would be more than happy to apologise. I know that a couple of players take issue with something I am supposed to have said years ago and I would expect them to comment when they see this thread but I genuinely don't recall using the particular word they're cross about because it simply isn't a word I use in the context they allege. However, of course it is entirely possible that it slipped out once, although I have yet to see proof.
I'm an approachable guy. I don't want to think I do anything that causes others distress of gives them cause to be genuinely upset. I'm as rough as toast and common as muck as you can tell by the amount of swearing I do but outside of giving some needle back to a small number of regs who choose to deliver the needle to me, I don't think I'm doing an awful lot wrong.
Please do feel free to contact me if you feel I have done anything that was out of line towards you personally and if I agree with you that I was out of line, I'd be more than happy to apologise.
If the Sky people read this and I expect they will, I would be happy to talk on the phone with them about it. Just PM me and we can arrange a call later today.
Cheers.
Reg
Furthermore when watching his videos I couldn't have cared less who his opponents were or even their style of play, I watched it purely for the strategy and the discussions about how and why he approached the cards he was dealt. I'm a female player I found Paul's style utterly inoffensive and a very funny a refreshing approach to poker commentary. Paul is simply a plain speaking Northerner in an adult environment. He is never sexist or racist and is seldom offensive. I've heard far worse language at football grounds. It should be noted that Sky allow some very offensive and controversial screen names. In fact if anything I thought he was hugely respectful to all players, and can often be heard condemning regulars who were rude to new players claiming it was not good for the poker ecosystem. It should not go unnoticed that Paul has been on the receiving end of rudeness from fellow players that is personal and deliberate and conducts himself well.
I wonder if there would be a noticeable impact on Sky if all of the people who watch the channel and have had the pleasure of knowing Paul on his social media boycotted Sky for the month of August. Given the low traffic Sky Poker is famous for and the size of the following he has built over the years I think there could be. If Sky are not careful Paul will simply continue his channel using another poker platform and I have no doubt his subscribers would follow him.
Cheers
Josh
Certainly be prepared if, when you speak to Sky, they say the e-mail is because of one (or more) of the things I mentioned. With how increasingly PC the world has become and companies wanting to avoid anything even the tiniest bit controversial, it's entirely possible they've seen something that they don't like in your videos and they don't want it associated with their brand, even though you're not officially representing them in any way, and they've invoked this clause as a result.
Hopefully Sky do at least get one of the more senior Poker employees to discuss the situation with you. It's pretty poor that they just get a Customer Care guy to fire off a poorly written e-mail stating T&Cs and think that's good enough.
Binks
Pingu points a few things out. You defend yourself when it comes to the swearing thats fair. However as much as you say this is my business, thats fine. But how you talk about thing, and about or to others is an effect on Youtube and content creation in general. I've only watched a couple of your videos and nothing recently but seems a topic of discussion.
While you state this is your business, it is. However once you post it onto youtube its no longer just your business. Its Youtubes business, their advertisers business, any company seen on your videos business and whats becoming more apparent in recent times the business of other content creators.
The whole new monotisation system on youtube is a major example of this. Advertisers, especially in the UK where sky are based didn't want their companies advertised on certain channels. This was due to many factors but one highlighted in youtube is swearing. You can be demonotised or not given mototisation rights by youtube for this.
If Sky have e-mailed you and said Hey we don't want our brand related with you're brand. Then guess what you have to respect that. That is their decision. Same as its the decision of other companies to put their name on a football top or not. You can request what the reason is, they aren't in a place they don't have to answer. I know this from my channel I did a series on a game called total war. I wasn't aware that this was one of the few games you have to be an approved creator to do. I have been advised of that fact and haven't been asked to remove the content but I'll never be able to monotise it is my punishment. Not that, that's a reason why I do it. They don't have to give me a reason they just don't want to be assosiated with bad press which is often worse than good press and its impossible to monitor it all.
I'd suspect unless sky has changed drastically since the last time I've been here the problem isn't with sky but rather they've been informed of your channel recently via a complaint, they've reviewed it and went actually we don't want this kind of advertisement for our brand. Thats me speculating from the outside but given how long you've been making content I'd bet good money on that being the case. Sky were 100% aware when myself and Lambert streamed on here and even gave us affiliate links (which they no longer do) to give to new players to get them to join. On occasion a player would say please don't show me on screen and you had to respect that. But thats literally where the only issues I ever had was.
Capitalism likes things nice and PG.