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Diary of a determined player

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  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    Enut said:

    Type your comment

    Essexphil said:

    The guy who lost with quad 9's must have done something terrible in a previous life...

    Unless there was a bad beat bonus in play? Would be nice to think there was but I somehow suspect these wasn't.
    No bad beat bonus in play.

    Unlucky with QQ into AA :( but can't believe there wasn't a 3bet from either of you preflop :o

    Well, I didn't have the chance once he had already shoved. If he didn't shove, I would have.
  • goldnballzgoldnballz Member Posts: 2,819
    ok fair enough... i think you described the action wrong in the orig post
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    edited February 2020
    This is hh as described

    Short stack of 80k (2 BB's) shoves. Chip leader calls (2M), I have QQ and also call (1.5M) with QQ. Sadly the chip leader had AA and that was me out.

    So its hard to help as no idea on number of players left or actual action
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    Oh sorry! Chip leader shoved, which I of course called.

    Two players left to act behind me. Both of whom quickly folded.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    edited February 2020
    Online:
    Tournaments: 24
    Buy-Ins: £191.31
    Cashes: £78.30
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 1

    Live:
    Tournaments: 4
    Buy-Ins: £220.00
    Cashes: £100.00
    FT's: 0
    Wins: 0

    Since my last post about the profit (or loss as it is right now), I made a couple of fairly significant adjustments to my game and I feel like I am playing solidly right now. The results do not reflect that, but I think if I keep playing the way I am, they will turn around. 12 months back I was really struggling to play my cards against the opposition's possible range - and I was struggling to make decisions in time (both live and online). However now, I feel like I can do this with ease - and almost on autopilot. It feels like a big step forward. :)

    Another thing that has helped improve my game is constantly reminding myself of the following:

    In position - offensive play
    Out of position - defensive play

    I realise that's very obvious, but it wasn't a strategy I was always adopting in "the heat of battle".

    Here's a hand from one of the 7 at 7 BH's, as played, what do you do guys do on the flop and turn here? Had no significant reads.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    peter27Small blind300.00300.004720.00
    bedrock72Big blind600.00900.0036014.50
    Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 9
    jams29Call600.001500.006200.00
    WaddioCall600.002100.0021213.00
    tigherFold
    peter27Call300.002400.004420.00
    bedrock72Check
    Flop
    • 4
    • 10
    • J
    peter27Check
    bedrock72Check
    jams29Check
    WaddioCheck
    Turn
    • 5
    peter27Check
    bedrock72Check
    jams29Bet1600.004000.004600.00
    WaddioFold
    peter27All-in4420.008420.000.00
    bedrock72Fold
    jams29Fold
    peter27Muck
    peter27Win5600.005600.00
    peter27Return2820.000.008420.00
    Also, I have a hypothetical question. Middle stages of an MTT, everyone playing around 50 BB's and you have no reads. Blinds are 200/400 and MP raises to 1200. You're on the button with a pocket pair. What pocket pair do you have to be holding to change from "just" calling to raising?
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    edited February 2020
    Online:
    Tournaments: 36
    Buy-Ins: £269.51
    Cashes: £93.99
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 1

    Live:
    Tournaments: 5
    Buy-Ins: £300.00
    Cashes: £100.00
    FT's: 0
    Wins: 0

    In addition to the above status, I played some low-stakes cash poker (£2.32 profit) and 3 x £3.30 DYM's with a mate. I lost all three DYM's, so that went well. :D
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    Online:
    Tournaments: 42
    Buy-Ins: £313.21
    Cashes: £169.35
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 1

    Live:
    Tournaments: 7
    Buy-Ins: £380.00
    Cashes: £100.00
    FT's: 0
    Wins: 0

    At the moment, due to my other on-going project that I have previously mentioned, I am only playing the live 6-max every week.

    Something dawned on me today while playing that live event. I'm starting a trend where the story of my tournament is the basically the same most times.

    I start strongly, and I feel like I have improved considerably in this area as time goes on; loosening up my play at the lower blind levels helped a lot. I consistently have a big stack size heading into the middle stages, but that's where it starts to come undone for me.

    Let's say the blinds at 5k/10k, and I am playing a 200k stack. If I raise pre-flop with suited connectors to 20k, and one opponent calls, that's 40k in the pot. Then with a c-bet and call that's already between 80k-100k in the pot. Losing a couple of hands like this seems common, and then I am suddenly short stacked. How do I avoid this scenario? Tightening my range and folding suited connectors pre (just an example) doesn't feel right. But equally, if I miss the flop, the pot gets big after my c-bet. I could start checking more flops but that doesn't really feel right either, I c-bet based on the flop texture. I'm a little bit stuck to be honest.

    Hmmm, needs some thought. Advice welcome.
  • chrisdonkbchrisdonkb Member Posts: 133
    Quickest fix for you Peter is making sure you’re not playing weak suited connectors from early position while having 20bb, especially live where in general you’ve probably got less fold equity. You’ll find yourself out of position with weak holdings a lot less often :)
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    Have a tighter range pre and you don't have to c bet. Is resources online to look at ranges. Be worth looking at these.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,461

    Quickest fix for you Peter is making sure you’re not playing weak suited connectors from early position while having 20bb, especially live where in general you’ve probably got less fold equity. You’ll find yourself out of position with weak holdings a lot less often :)

    @chrisdonkb Chris, I’m curious so..

    As someone who likes to play suited connectors -they do look so pretty...- and c bet/check

    What do you determine are ‘weak ‘ 45?, 78? 10J? Where do you draw the line..( btw pencil at the ready to amend my notes on you! 🤪👹💩)
  • chrisdonkbchrisdonkb Member Posts: 133
    @madprof Still playing JTs but yeah the 54s-87s area don’t tend to be good opens when you’re quite short, especially at a 9 handed table. On sky it’s not as bad but still not playing these unless I’m in late position
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 842
    As others have said you need to open a tighter range shallower. A lot of the value of suited connectors/ pp's are in hitting a big hand and being deep enough to get paid for it.

    Your going to want to generally favour raising with big cards because they make top pairs more often which is what we want shallow. Also when we have big cards like KQ it makes it less likely someone has a hand like AK AQ, KK, QQ that is gonna move in on us. With small pp's you want to either jam or fold from a lot of positions shallow, they are not hands that benefit from seeing a flop. You want to use your fold equity and be flipping a lot when called. You need to learn how much you can profitably shove them for from what position's.

    Also you can always consider cbetting smaller. Betting third pot leaves more play behind and keeps the pot smaller on the turn. Third pot is a fairly standard bet sizing choice by a lot of decent pro's.

    Also you have played less than 50 tournaments collectively. This is a nothing sample. It's good to look for leaks and areas to improve, but you really can't tell anything from such a small sample. Be realistic about variance, don't attribute all your good results to amazing play and your bad results to bad play. Some would say you need to play 1-2 thousand tournaments to be able to start gaging where your at.


  • chrisdonkbchrisdonkb Member Posts: 133
    Listen to @FeelGroggy 's advice carefully lads and maybe one day, eventually, you too can finish 7th in a ukops side bet B)
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    Thanks for the feedback guys, you all had a very similar message, and I have been taking that on board. @FeelGroggy Your post was particularly helpful, cheers.

    Online:
    Tournaments: 52
    Buy-Ins: £369.31
    Cashes: £218.52
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 1

    Live:
    Tournaments: 7
    Buy-Ins: £380.00
    Cashes: £100.00
    FT's: 0
    Wins: 0

    Played the mini tonight and lost a decent amount of chips on this hand. Would you guys have played this differently?
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    WhattaMongSmall blind200.00200.0011114.00
    peter27Big blind400.00600.0022560.00
    Your hole cards
    • J
    • 10
    Richrash93Raise800.001400.0013500.00
    kelsey01Fold
    FASFold
    beefmysterCall800.002200.0013610.00
    WhattaMongFold
    peter27Call400.002600.0022160.00
    Flop
    • K
    • 8
    • 4
    peter27Check
    Richrash93Bet1300.003900.0012200.00
    beefmysterFold
    peter27Call1300.005200.0020860.00
    Turn
    • K
    peter27Check
    Richrash93Bet2400.007600.009800.00
    peter27Call2400.0010000.0018460.00
    River
    • Q
    peter27Check
    Richrash93Check
    peter27Show
    • J
    • 10
    Richrash93Show
    • 8
    • 5
    Richrash93WinTwo Pairs, Kings and 8s10000.0019800.00
    I believe I was getting the right odds to call the flop bet, not so much on the turn - but the size of the pot and the amount I had already invested made it difficult to give up.
  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 8,118
    Your getting good odds to call Preflop, but your playing super passive throughout.

    If you 3bet or shove preflop i think its better, even folding is better.

    Having said that, im in need of coaching so probably should keep stum.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    mumsie said:

    Your getting good odds to call Preflop, but your playing super passive throughout.

    If you 3bet or shove preflop i think its better, even folding is better.

    Having said that, im in need of coaching so probably should keep stum.

    I didn't expect anyone to suggest that!

    I agree I am playing passive, but I am out of position.

    3-betting preflop with suited connectors against an UTG raise feels like it would be a very bold play. It'll be interesting to see if others agree with you.

    Folding JT pre would seem too tight to me, but maybe that's an example of the previous conversation; maybe I shouldn't be playing suited connectors in this spot.
  • Allan23Allan23 Member Posts: 876
    Anything but flatting pre in a sky mtt seems insane to me here
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    edited March 2020
    Interesting hand.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    CollisHJSmall blind15.0015.001985.00
    nottoofarBig blind30.0045.001790.00
    Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    Ubbi4820Fold
    HistoCall30.0075.00435.00
    xcvFold
    peter27Raise120.00195.001790.00
    CollisHJFold
    nottoofarCall90.00285.001700.00
    HistoCall90.00375.00345.00
    Flop
    • A
    • A
    • 9
    nottoofarBet375.00750.001325.00
    HistoFold
    peter27All-in1790.002540.000.00
    nottoofarAll-in1325.003865.000.00
    peter27Unmatched bet90.003775.0090.00
    nottoofarShow
    • A
    • 10
    peter27Show
    • K
    • K
    Turn
    • 4
    River
    • 6
    nottoofarWinThree Aces3775.003775.00
    Do you give up after the flop? My logic was if the opposition hit the ace, would they really go full pot size on that flop? Put him on air, or the nine.
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 842
    edited March 2020
    Jts is a mandatory defend. Closing the action here you should be defending much wider than JTs. You should be peeling as wide as 54s in terms of suited connectors. The hand itself you cant do an aggressive other than possibly bluffing river although the give up is fine. Turn no option is thrilling but hey that's poker.
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 842
    peter27 said:

    Interesting hand.


    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    CollisHJSmall blind15.0015.001985.00
    nottoofarBig blind30.0045.001790.00
    Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    Ubbi4820Fold
    HistoCall30.0075.00435.00
    xcvFold
    peter27Raise120.00195.001790.00
    CollisHJFold
    nottoofarCall90.00285.001700.00
    HistoCall90.00375.00345.00
    Flop
    • A
    • A
    • 9
    nottoofarBet375.00750.001325.00
    HistoFold
    peter27All-in1790.002540.000.00
    nottoofarAll-in1325.003865.000.00
    peter27Unmatched bet90.003775.0090.00
    nottoofarShow
    • A
    • 10
    peter27Show
    • K
    • K
    Turn
    • 4
    River
    • 6
    nottoofarWinThree Aces3775.003775.00
    Do you give up after the flop? My logic was if the opposition hit the ace, would they really go full pot size on that flop? Put him on air, or the nine.
    Your thought process should have led you to play call rather than jam. If you decide not to believe this lead, call. 9x and bluffs have close to 0% equity vs you. There are no bad runouts really. By raising all you achieve is getting him to call better and fold bluffs. You also give 9x the opportunity to fold.
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