Seems you're getting massively carried away in pretty marginal spots
Never has a truer word been spoken.
I have come to realise that you're right - especially in the mid-stages of a tournament. Subsequently adjusted my play and immediately finished 3rd in a £1000 BH tonight. It's only one tournament, but it gives me some motivation going forward.
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below): Played: 7 - 9 Buy-Ins: £49.00 - £65.50 Cashes: £7.98 - £16.92
Two hands for discussion if you're interested:
1) Very basic one. Was my call here correct? The more I think about it, the more I realise there are way more hands beating me in their range than not. But, folding seems wrong somehow. What would you have done? It was from the £1000 BH.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
Ed46
Small blind
40.00
40.00
4553.00
peter27
Big blind
80.00
120.00
2485.00
Your hole cards
Q
A
Glp73
Fold
Taximan1
Fold
parry01716
Call
80.00
200.00
3180.00
salz7312
Raise
160.00
360.00
1819.50
Ed46
Call
120.00
480.00
4433.00
peter27
Raise
520.00
1000.00
1965.00
parry01716
Fold
salz7312
All-in
1819.50
2819.50
0.00
Ed46
Fold
peter27
Call
1379.50
4199.00
585.50
peter27
Show
Q
A
salz7312
Show
J
K
Flop
5
6
10
Turn
A
River
7
peter27
Win
Pair of Aces
4199.00
4784.50
2) Did I make any mistakes on this hand? I'm quickly realising that hands like AT, AJ, AQ are an issue for me. They're just difficult to play post-flop, especially OOP.
Not sure why the suits aren't displaying. I had ace of diamonds, two diamonds on flop.
AQss: HRC/ICMIZER were literally made for looking these spots up. Doesn't seem like you've started using either yet and you should.
They will tell you that, at equilibrium, the BTN shouldn't have KJo here but it's close; his worst profitable Kx hands are KQo and KTs. He can also have all the pocket pairs and a lot of Ax hands you dominate. In a vacuum, against that range, AQs is absolutely fine to call off. Probably a slam dunk when there's a bounty in play and you cover him.
It's worth considering his line though because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He min-raises a limper then jams 22bb for almost 4x over your squeeze. This is where it's helpful to have some player reads because IMO there are a few ways to interpret it:
1. He has top of his range which he tried to slow-play with the min-raise then decided to jam once he got plenty of action 2. He has a marginal hand he knows can't call your 3-bet and is jamming as a bluff 3. He thinks he's jamming for value with a middling hand/he doesn't want to fold his pretty face cards and thinks you might fold
Even the barest bit of information about this guy can help you figure out which one most likely applies to him. You only need him to not be the first for calling to be immediately profitable, since 2 and 3 imply fairly weak ranges that AQs is in great shape against. I don't think any strong player is min-raising a limper with premium hands so I feel pretty comfortable assuming he's either a 1 or a 3, with 3 being significantly more likely since bad players tend to just blast off with AA-KK, without any other information.
Another factor is that if he just flats your squeeze he's going to flop with a 1:1 SPR (stack to pot ratio). IMO the only hands that want to do that are AA-KK, maybe not even KK. Everything else is very vulnerable to bad flops when you're pratically pot-committed. You have no playability in these spots and have to either get it in or fold on the flop. Another reason to think his hand isn't very strong.
All things considered, it's a pretty easy call IMO and a spot that gave you valuable information on the villain for future reference. Don't underestimate the value of making copious notes on how players play their hands.
You could also consider sizing your raise up here. If it folds back to the BTN he'll be getting 3.7:1 which he doesn't need a great deal of equity to call and if he does the SB is getting even better odds. You don't really want to be going to flop 3-ways OOP. I would have a hard time pulling the trigger myself but I think going all-in is worth considering; the limper is always folding, you can expect the SB to fold most of the time when he just flats a min-raise, and then you're just against the BTN who you cover and should also be pretty light most of the time for the reasons discussed above. When they all fold, you pick up 6bb without having to see a flop. Easy game.
I'll probably come back to the AJ hand later. Wife wants to go out.
AQss: HRC/ICMIZER were literally made for looking these spots up. Doesn't seem like you've started using either yet and you should.
They will tell you that, at equilibrium, the BTN shouldn't have KJo here but it's close; his worst profitable Kx hands are KQo and KTs. He can also have all the pocket pairs and a lot of Ax hands you dominate. In a vacuum, against that range, AQs is absolutely fine to call off. Probably a slam dunk when there's a bounty in play and you cover him.
It's worth considering his line though because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He min-raises a limper then jams 22bb for almost 4x over your squeeze. This is where it's helpful to have some player reads because IMO there are a few ways to interpret it:
1. He has top of his range which he tried to slow-play with the min-raise then decided to jam once he got plenty of action 2. He has a marginal hand he knows can't call your 3-bet and is jamming as a bluff 3. He thinks he's jamming for value with a middling hand/he doesn't want to fold his pretty face cards and thinks you might fold
Even the barest bit of information about this guy can help you figure out which one most likely applies to him. You only need him to not be the first for calling to be immediately profitable, since 2 and 3 imply fairly weak ranges that AQs is in great shape against. I don't think any strong player is min-raising a limper with premium hands so I feel pretty comfortable assuming he's either a 1 or a 3, with 3 being significantly more likely since bad players tend to just blast off with AA-KK, without any other information.
Another factor is that if he just flats your squeeze he's going to flop with a 1:1 SPR (stack to pot ratio). IMO the only hands that want to do that are AA-KK, maybe not even KK. Everything else is very vulnerable to bad flops when you're pratically pot-committed. You have no playability in these spots and have to either get it in or fold on the flop. Another reason to think his hand isn't very strong.
All things considered, it's a pretty easy call IMO and a spot that gave you valuable information on the villain for future reference. Don't underestimate the value of making copious notes on how players play their hands.
You could also consider sizing your raise up here. If it folds back to the BTN he'll be getting 3.7:1 which he doesn't need a great deal of equity to call and if he does the SB is getting even better odds. You don't really want to be going to flop 3-ways OOP. I would have a hard time pulling the trigger myself but I think going all-in is worth considering; the limper is always folding, you can expect the SB to fold most of the time when he just flats a min-raise, and then you're just against the BTN who you cover and should also be pretty light most of the time for the reasons discussed above. When they all fold, you pick up 6bb without having to see a flop. Easy game.
I'll probably come back to the AJ hand later. Wife wants to go out.
Another incredibly insightful post. Thank you so much! I do make a lot of notes on players actually, more than most probably. However, I would have missed a number of the items you mentioned here - so you have given me a lot to think about.
I haven't started using those applications yet, but it is on my to do list, and I will get to it for certain.
The maths probably say you have to call. The reality is you're probably up against a very obvious AA/KK. Do you spike a 9 enough of the time to justify the call?
Pre flop is probably where you want to focus on the hand and the reasons why you elected to play it that way.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below): Played: 14 - 17 Buy-Ins: £115.00 - £137.00 Cashes: £11.74 - £19.26
I am putting in a lot of hours off the tables at the moment trying to develop my game, and also playing more as it's UKOPS and as we're on lockdown right now. I continue to feel increasingly comfortable each time I sit at a table. It's a bit disappointing that my cashes have been seats into bigger events where I haven't cashed, or min cashes. But, I think I am playing well enough for a major cash to be on the horizon.
Really motivated right now!
Fun hand from tonight's mini below. No specific reason for posting, just thought it was an interesting one from my perspective.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
I don't think anyone is saying you should 3b fold. It the worst of all your options.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
I don't think anyone is saying you should 3b fold. It the worst of all your options.
I do accept that "by the book" it was the worst play, but the varied advice feels like it's quite a close decision between the three options and when you factor a specific note I had on the player, I feel like my fold was right - despite the pot odds (which I did think about during the hand). Haven't posted the specific note because I'm not sure it would be right to do that given that the player's name is visible.
Also, one thing that no-one mentioned is that despite the pot odds, 9's are just a hand that don't play well post-flop. It would almost be a lost cause if it didn't hit.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
I don't think anyone is saying you should 3b fold. It the worst of all your options.
I do accept that "by the book" it was the worst play, but the varied advice feels like it's quite a close decision between the three options and when you factor a specific note I had on the player, I feel like my fold was right - despite the pot odds (which I did think about during the hand). Haven't posted the specific note because I'm not sure it would be right to do that given that the player's name is visible.
Also, one thing that no-one mentioned is that despite the pot odds, 9's are just a hand that don't play well post-flop. It would almost be a lost cause if it didn't hit.
Peter I don’t mean to be rude here but.. You ask for advice but you don’t really want it. You always decide that your play was right regardless of what some very good players may say.
When Groggy, Matt etc explain in fantastic detail why another way may be better it would do you no harm to listen and accept it
I understand it’s difficult when you’ve played a certain way for a long time. There’s something that I’ve changed with my game over the last year in mtts. It took me a while to put into practice. But when players who are better then me such as Eamonn and Bates tell me the same thing then I realised that I should listen.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
I don't think anyone is saying you should 3b fold. It the worst of all your options.
I do accept that "by the book" it was the worst play, but the varied advice feels like it's quite a close decision between the three options and when you factor a specific note I had on the player, I feel like my fold was right - despite the pot odds (which I did think about during the hand). Haven't posted the specific note because I'm not sure it would be right to do that given that the player's name is visible.
Also, one thing that no-one mentioned is that despite the pot odds, 9's are just a hand that don't play well post-flop. It would almost be a lost cause if it didn't hit.
Peter I don’t mean to be rude here but.. You ask for advice but you don’t really want it. You always decide that your play was right regardless of what some very good players may say.
When Groggy, Matt etc explain in fantastic detail why another way may be better it would do you no harm to listen and accept it
I understand it’s difficult when you’ve played a certain way for a long time. There’s something that I’ve changed with my game over the last year in mtts. It took me a while to put into practice. But when players who are better then me such as Eamonn and Bates tell me the same thing then I realised that I should listen.
Ps Congrats on the win tonight
Really surprised you would say that! I feel like I take on board nearly all of the advice I am given on here - with this specific instance being a rarity. And even then, I did say that I now understand why folding was the worst of my options.
I feel like I should say I'll be more open to receiving advice, but don't see how I could be more open to be honest. One of my main reasons for posting here is the excellent advice available and I always try put it into practice.
Maybe you're getting confused about when I try to challenge them, but I'm doing that to aid my understanding, it doesn't mean I'm not taking on board the advice.
Comments
I have come to realise that you're right - especially in the mid-stages of a tournament. Subsequently adjusted my play and immediately finished 3rd in a £1000 BH tonight. It's only one tournament, but it gives me some motivation going forward.
Online:
Tournaments: 80
Buy-Ins: £552.44
Cashes: £465.32
FT's: 6
Wins: 2
Live:
Tournaments: 7
Buy-Ins: £380.00
Cashes: £100.00
FT's: 0
Wins: 0
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below):
Played: 7 - 9
Buy-Ins: £49.00 - £65.50
Cashes: £7.98 - £16.92
Two hands for discussion if you're interested:
1) Very basic one. Was my call here correct? The more I think about it, the more I realise there are way more hands beating me in their range than not. But, folding seems wrong somehow. What would you have done? It was from the £1000 BH.
Not sure why the suits aren't displaying. I had ace of diamonds, two diamonds on flop.
They will tell you that, at equilibrium, the BTN shouldn't have KJo here but it's close; his worst profitable Kx hands are KQo and KTs. He can also have all the pocket pairs and a lot of Ax hands you dominate. In a vacuum, against that range, AQs is absolutely fine to call off. Probably a slam dunk when there's a bounty in play and you cover him.
It's worth considering his line though because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He min-raises a limper then jams 22bb for almost 4x over your squeeze. This is where it's helpful to have some player reads because IMO there are a few ways to interpret it:
1. He has top of his range which he tried to slow-play with the min-raise then decided to jam once he got plenty of action
2. He has a marginal hand he knows can't call your 3-bet and is jamming as a bluff
3. He thinks he's jamming for value with a middling hand/he doesn't want to fold his pretty face cards and thinks you might fold
Even the barest bit of information about this guy can help you figure out which one most likely applies to him. You only need him to not be the first for calling to be immediately profitable, since 2 and 3 imply fairly weak ranges that AQs is in great shape against. I don't think any strong player is min-raising a limper with premium hands so I feel pretty comfortable assuming he's either a 1 or a 3, with 3 being significantly more likely since bad players tend to just blast off with AA-KK, without any other information.
Another factor is that if he just flats your squeeze he's going to flop with a 1:1 SPR (stack to pot ratio). IMO the only hands that want to do that are AA-KK, maybe not even KK. Everything else is very vulnerable to bad flops when you're pratically pot-committed. You have no playability in these spots and have to either get it in or fold on the flop. Another reason to think his hand isn't very strong.
All things considered, it's a pretty easy call IMO and a spot that gave you valuable information on the villain for future reference. Don't underestimate the value of making copious notes on how players play their hands.
You could also consider sizing your raise up here. If it folds back to the BTN he'll be getting 3.7:1 which he doesn't need a great deal of equity to call and if he does the SB is getting even better odds. You don't really want to be going to flop 3-ways OOP. I would have a hard time pulling the trigger myself but I think going all-in is worth considering; the limper is always folding, you can expect the SB to fold most of the time when he just flats a min-raise, and then you're just against the BTN who you cover and should also be pretty light most of the time for the reasons discussed above. When they all fold, you pick up 6bb without having to see a flop. Easy game.
I'll probably come back to the AJ hand later. Wife wants to go out.
I haven't started using those applications yet, but it is on my to do list, and I will get to it for certain.
Going to split my results up into quarters, because I want to see the progression as time passes.
Q1 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's /4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Tournaments: 1
Buy-Ins: £27.50
Cashes: £72.20
FT's: 0
Wins: 0
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below):
Played: 8 - 11
Buy-Ins: £54.50 - £76.50
Cashes: £7.98 - £19.26
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's /4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Tournaments: 6
Buy-Ins: £60.80
Cashes: £80.36
FT's: 1
Wins: 0
UKOPS: £11 down
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below):
Played: 10 - 13
Buy-Ins: £71.00 - £93.00
Cashes: £11.74 - £19.26
Is this excellent or dumb?
You assigning ranges in this spot?
So call is way better than fold. All day.
That reraise is too small.
The reality is you're probably up against a very obvious AA/KK.
Do you spike a 9 enough of the time to justify the call?
Pre flop is probably where you want to focus on the hand and the reasons why you elected to play it that way.
It could be the awful Sky HH's or it could be because i'm ****.
All-in I'd say.
It is either shove or call. But both are better than fold.
1) There's no agreement between you guys on what was the correct play out of the three options. If you can make an argument for all three then I don't believe I did anything too wrong.
2) No-one raised anything that I didn't already think about during the hand.
I'm comfortable with how I played that one based on the thoughts you gave, and more crucially, based on the information I had on the player.
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Tournaments: 21
Buy-Ins: £154.40
Cashes: £120.51
FT's: 5
Wins: 2
Mini's £10 Bet vs @cal69 (shown 2nd below):
Played: 14 - 17
Buy-Ins: £115.00 - £137.00
Cashes: £11.74 - £19.26
I am putting in a lot of hours off the tables at the moment trying to develop my game, and also playing more as it's UKOPS and as we're on lockdown right now. I continue to feel increasingly comfortable each time I sit at a table. It's a bit disappointing that my cashes have been seats into bigger events where I haven't cashed, or min cashes. But, I think I am playing well enough for a major cash to be on the horizon.
Really motivated right now!
Fun hand from tonight's mini below. No specific reason for posting, just thought it was an interesting one from my perspective.
I do accept that "by the book" it was the worst play, but the varied advice feels like it's quite a close decision between the three options and when you factor a specific note I had on the player, I feel like my fold was right - despite the pot odds (which I did think about during the hand). Haven't posted the specific note because I'm not sure it would be right to do that given that the player's name is visible.
Also, one thing that no-one mentioned is that despite the pot odds, 9's are just a hand that don't play well post-flop. It would almost be a lost cause if it didn't hit.
You ask for advice but you don’t really want it.
You always decide that your play was right regardless of what some very good players may say.
When Groggy, Matt etc explain in fantastic detail why another way may be better it would do you no harm to listen and accept it
I understand it’s difficult when you’ve played a certain way for a long time.
There’s something that I’ve changed with my game over the last year in mtts. It took me a while to put into practice. But when players who are better then me such as Eamonn and Bates tell me the same thing then I realised that I should listen.
Ps Congrats on the win tonight
I feel like I should say I'll be more open to receiving advice, but don't see how I could be more open to be honest. One of my main reasons for posting here is the excellent advice available and I always try put it into practice.
Maybe you're getting confused about when I try to challenge them, but I'm doing that to aid my understanding, it doesn't mean I'm not taking on board the advice.
P.S. Thanks