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November Chaos.
Project Fear 2.0? ANOTHER leaked No Deal Brexit dossier predicts fuel, food and medicine shortages, port chaos and Irish border disruption on Oct 31 as Boris Johnson vows to crash out the EU if necessary
A secret Whitehall dossier outlines possible pandemonium in a No Deal Brexit
Operation Yellowhammer casts a dark shadow over proposed October 31 exit
Hard border in Ireland, fuel, medicine and food shortages are anticipated
News comes as Boris Johnson prepares to meet EU leaders at the G7 this week
A hard Irish border, three-months of chaos at the ports as well as fuel, medicine and food shortages are expected in the event of a No Deal Brexit, leaked Whitehall papers show.
Operation Yellowhammer, a secret dossier filed by the Cabinet Office this month, exposes the areas that could be most vulnerable if the UK leaves the EU without a deal on October 31.
The explosive revelations marked 'official-sensitive' include the expectation of a return of a hard border in Ireland due to the inability to roll-out the government's proposed limited checks.
The papers, obtained by The Times, outline the possibility of protests, road blockades and 'direct action.'
Massive tailbacks at ports could limit fuel distribution and disrupt the supply across the southeast of England, including London.
As many as 85% of lorries headed to France could be hit with delays of 60 hours and it could take up to three months before the flow of traffic reaches 75% of current levels.
Fresh food supply will plummet, leading to increased prices and less variety, while fishing vessels could clash, as nearly 300 foreign ships are anticipated to cast their nets illegally in British waters on the first day of Brexit.
Medical supplies will also be 'vulnerable to severe extended delays,' The Times reports, because three-quarters of British supplies come from the EU.
A senior Whitehall source told the paper: 'This is not Project Fear - this is the mnost realistic assessment of what the public face with no deal. These are likely, basic, reasonable scenarios - not the worst case.'
Meanwhile, civil servants have warned that massive protests throughout the country will stretch police.
The news comes as Boris Johnson signalled he would plough ahead with Brexit before calling a general election, even if a no confidence vote succeeded when parliament returns in September.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7368023/Leaked-papers-reveal-Britain-face-chaos-hard-Irish-border-leaves-EU-No-Deal.html
A secret Whitehall dossier outlines possible pandemonium in a No Deal Brexit
Operation Yellowhammer casts a dark shadow over proposed October 31 exit
Hard border in Ireland, fuel, medicine and food shortages are anticipated
News comes as Boris Johnson prepares to meet EU leaders at the G7 this week
A hard Irish border, three-months of chaos at the ports as well as fuel, medicine and food shortages are expected in the event of a No Deal Brexit, leaked Whitehall papers show.
Operation Yellowhammer, a secret dossier filed by the Cabinet Office this month, exposes the areas that could be most vulnerable if the UK leaves the EU without a deal on October 31.
The explosive revelations marked 'official-sensitive' include the expectation of a return of a hard border in Ireland due to the inability to roll-out the government's proposed limited checks.
The papers, obtained by The Times, outline the possibility of protests, road blockades and 'direct action.'
Massive tailbacks at ports could limit fuel distribution and disrupt the supply across the southeast of England, including London.
As many as 85% of lorries headed to France could be hit with delays of 60 hours and it could take up to three months before the flow of traffic reaches 75% of current levels.
Fresh food supply will plummet, leading to increased prices and less variety, while fishing vessels could clash, as nearly 300 foreign ships are anticipated to cast their nets illegally in British waters on the first day of Brexit.
Medical supplies will also be 'vulnerable to severe extended delays,' The Times reports, because three-quarters of British supplies come from the EU.
A senior Whitehall source told the paper: 'This is not Project Fear - this is the mnost realistic assessment of what the public face with no deal. These are likely, basic, reasonable scenarios - not the worst case.'
Meanwhile, civil servants have warned that massive protests throughout the country will stretch police.
The news comes as Boris Johnson signalled he would plough ahead with Brexit before calling a general election, even if a no confidence vote succeeded when parliament returns in September.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7368023/Leaked-papers-reveal-Britain-face-chaos-hard-Irish-border-leaves-EU-No-Deal.html
Comments
Haysie.
I applaud your efforts to warn us of the perceived dangers of a no deal. However the powers that be have had long enough to find a solution which backs the result of the referendum.
They have prevaricated, dawdled, sabotaged and scuppered to suit their own selfish wants and now its time to reap the whirlwind.
I like other brexiteers have actually softened my initial stance, however the years of fudging the issue in the hope that it will go away leaves me in the state of not caring any more.
Just get it over with so we can start to live post brexit.
Its going to be chaos and disorder regardless of deal or no deal. So let it come down then.
I merely posted an article referring to a leaked Government document which illustrates the likely repercussions.
It states that these are reasonable scenarios, rather than the worst case.
The whole point of doing a deal was surely to avoid chaos.
I believe that a number of MPs have the best interests of the UK at heart.
No deal was never discussed during the referendum campaign.
I think the time taken to get nowhere reflects the difficulty of the problem.
What is the Irish border solution?
What makes you say you have softened your stance?
To describe no deal as a solution is silly, as we will immediately have to negotiate some sort of deal with them.
I think many people have lost patience, and are fed up with it. Yet leaving with no deal in October will be the beginning rather than the end.
I think many remain voters would be happy to leave with a Norway plus deal.
Many leave voters are dead against leaving with no deal.
How do you think border delays will benefit just in time manufacturers?
What made you vote leave in the first place?
What benefits will you reap from post Brexit life?
Typical Leave Voter?
'I hope we get out, Brexit... because you cannot have someone telling us how to do our own game': Sky Sports pundit Ian Holloway bizarrely blames EU for controversial new handball rule
Ian Holloway made the bizarre claim on Sky Sports' 'The Debate' on Tuesday
The 56-year-old claimed that he hopes Brexit gets implemented quickly
He was speaking about the new handball rule, which has come in for criticism
Gabriel Jesus had a goal disallowed against Tottenham following a VAR check
Ian Holloway has made the bizarre claim that the European Union is to blame for the controversial new handball rule in the Premier League.
The new law has come in for plenty of criticism in the early weeks of the season and was particularly in the spotlight after Manchester City had a goal disallowed in injury time during their 2-2 draw at home to Tottenham.
Gabriel Jesus struck right at the death but, after celebrating wildly for a couple of minutes, it was ruled out as Aymeric Laporte was adjudged to have brushed the ball with his hand in the build up to the goal.
Before the season started, the Premier League stated: 'Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season, even if it is accidental.'
After Michael Oliver originally let the goal stand, it was checked by VAR before it was eventually disallowed.
But speaking on The Debate show on Sky Sports alongside Geoff Shreeves and Kevin Phillips, Holloway suggested he wants Britain to leave the EU as soon as possible as you cannot have 'people telling us how to do our own game'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7377245/Ian-Holloway-bizarrely-claims-EU-fault-controversial-new-handball-rule.html
It wasn't my intention to warn anyone of the dangers of a no deal Brexit.
I merely posted an article referring to a leaked Government document which illustrates the likely repercussions.
It states that these are reasonable scenarios, rather than the worst case.
The whole point of doing a deal was surely to avoid chaos.
I believe that a number of MPs have the best interests of the UK at heart.
No deal was never discussed during the referendum campaign.
I think the time taken to get nowhere reflects the difficulty of the problem.
What is the Irish border solution?
What makes you say you have softened your stance?
To describe no deal as a solution is silly, as we will immediately have to negotiate some sort of deal with them.
I think many people have lost patience, and are fed up with it. Yet leaving with no deal in October will be the beginning rather than the end.
I think many remain voters would be happy to leave with a Norway plus deal.
Many leave voters are dead against leaving with no deal.
How do you think border delays will benefit just in time manufacturers?
What made you vote leave in the first place?
What benefits will you reap from post Brexit life?
Firstly M.P.s have only their own selfish little enclaves at heart. Their behaviour throughout the whole process confirms this.
No deal was never discussed because those arrogant people running the Country never thought they could lose.
The time taken reflects the I don't want to go attitude of those in power. Tough matey its not your decision to make it was ours and we made it.
Its not the Irish Border its the European Border and its merely being used as a tool by all sides and why should I have a solution ? I am neither a diplomat or a politician. That;s what those overpaid civil servants get their perkish lifestyles for.
My attitude has softened in that I might be able to stomach a deal but with the caveat that the ECJ or ECHR are not applicable in the UK and that any European manufacturers have to commit to the UK for at least 30 years.
Remember that its not all about us. Europe doesn't want/ cant afford to lose the UK so let them come to us to make the deals rather than us scratching around like some grubby back street dealer trying to appease the big supplier.
Why did I vote to leave ? because I see a big picture maybe 30/40/50 years down the line where Europe is run from the Hague / Brussels and national governments are reduced to nothing more than County Councils. All national identity is lost and the whole thing becomes a dysfunctional parody of the U.S.
Also i remember the hysteria whipped up by the supposed experts when we chose to eschew the Euro, the recessions, the poverty, the death of business, the negative impact on trade. Sound familiar ? The truth was we went along without too much trouble unlike Ireland, Greece twice, Portugal, Italy and Spain.
Maybe the biggest benefit of a post brexit society will be that in future politicians of all sides will be under no illusion that they are there, elected by us to serve us, and it will always be a reminder that the real power of a Nation lies with its people. Black or white, rich or poor, man or woman, gay or straight, left or right or centre, believer or atheist etc. This is our United Kingdom and if we decide to drive it off a cliff that's our business.
Now yes that's a little radical but lets be honest it doesn't really matter does it ? I mean I can't think of an aspect of my life has been improved by our membership of the EU. My City has not received EU funding to regenerate or even to retrain the tens of thousands of Potters, Miners and Steelworkers who lost their jobs since I left school with many of the last two being lost to Europe.
The final irony is that all we have now is warehousing and that's only because we stand less than a mile from the M6 and are smack in the middle of the North - South and East - West trunking routes. And who staffs these warehouses ? well its mainly European workers and good luck to them they work damned hard for their money.
That's why stoke on Trent voted 70% leave and if you consider that the 2 Universities have around 9,000 students then the core figure of permanent residents would probably have yielded a higher % than that considering nearly all students voted remain.
So there you have it. Were not knuckle dragging racist bigots, opposing immigrants and foreigners. But like a stale marriage where your partner is no longer giving any support, comfort or love sometimes its just better to walk away and face the future on your own. Not so much a case of what have you done for me lately but a case of what have you ever done for me.
My opinion is totally different to yours.
"No deal" was discussed. Every single pro-leave campaigner stated in 2016 that the very thought was preposterous. Because it is. It is a totally different question as to whether we should leave.
You can't blame Civil Servants. The EU (and our last Government) proposed a deal. We refuse to accept it, refuse to offer anything in its place, and seem to believe it is the EU that are being irrational. Sad.
"Stomach a deal"? 50% of our TOTAL import/export trade is with the EU. As much as the rest of the world put together. We have traded on simple terms for 45 years. And now we have no clue what is to happen next.
Of course the EU needs the UK. Just not as much as we need them. 50% of our trade is with the EU-for the EU it is closer to 5% trade with the UK. Germany can trade with the other 27 members of the EU instead of us.
The idea that post-Brexit politicians will be there to serve us? Yeah, right. And Stoke will be in the Champions League. Next season.
Stoke not received funding? Of course it has. As an example, it received £19 million from the EU for that very purpose in May, and has received lots of money before that. Has it received enough?-Probably not. But it won't receive any more from a UK Government.
Potters lost their jobs because of changing tastes and cheap imports from outside the EU. Mining becaus we decided not to subsidise our coal in the way Poland was-when Poland was not in the EU. Steel was ruined by cheap Chinese imports. All nothing to do with us being in, or out, of the EU. But people would rather blame the EU than the actual reasons.
Knuckle-dragging racists are invariably Leave supporters. But the reverse is certainly not true-there are still millions of entirely sensible people who genuinely believe that British politicians are more trustworthy than European ones.
What has Europe done for us?
1. Provided UK citizens the right to live, work and retire anywhere in the EU (subject to the sensible financial conditions that we forgot to have)
2. Freedom to travel
3. Most of our Consumer Protection legislation
4. Invaluable information-sharing concerning cross-border crime. The crimes that are almost always cross-border are drugs, terrorism and paedophilia
5. Rules to protect the environment
6. Millions of jobs
7. The rules for international trade that we have relied on for 45 years. Not saying they can't be changed, but we have absolutely no idea what is to happen next
Is the EU perfect? Of course not. But it was Plan A. And we are about to tear it up with no Plan B whatsoever.
Why did I vote to leave ? because I see a big picture maybe 30/40/50 years down the line where Europe is run from the Hague / Brussels and national governments are reduced to nothing more than County Councils. All national identity is lost and the whole thing becomes a dysfunctional parody of the U.S.
So you voted leave because of stuff that in your opinion may happen after you are dead, and would be disputed by huge swathes of your countrymen?
Why haven't we lost our national identity in the 45 years that we have been members?
Why haven't the other changes you allude to, occurred already?
Also i remember the hysteria whipped up by the supposed experts when we chose to eschew the Euro, the recessions, the poverty, the death of business, the negative impact on trade. Sound familiar ? The truth was we went along without too much trouble unlike Ireland, Greece twice, Portugal, Italy and Spain.
So our politicians had a choice, and made the correct decision.
Maybe the biggest benefit of a post brexit society will be that in future politicians of all sides will be under no illusion that they are there, elected by us to serve us, and it will always be a reminder that the real power of a Nation lies with its people. Black or white, rich or poor, man or woman, gay or straight, left or right or centre, believer or atheist etc. This is our United Kingdom and if we decide to drive it off a cliff that's our business.
Three years later and we haven't left. That hardly points to people power. It is more likely that the one lesson learned by politicians on all sides, is to avoid referendums like the plague.
I really cant see that a fully informed British voter would have opted for an act of economic self harm, and the loss of thousands of jobs.
Now yes that's a little radical but lets be honest it doesn't really matter does it ? I mean I can't think of an aspect of my life has been improved by our membership of the EU. My City has not received EU funding to regenerate or even to retrain the tens of thousands of Potters, Miners and Steelworkers who lost their jobs since I left school with many of the last two being lost to Europe.
I don't think what you describe is radical, and wont iterate my thoughts on it as they would cause a big row.
Many of the good things we have benefitted from, as a result of our EU membership, have been referred to on the Brexit thread over the last few months.
To ignore these benefits lessens your argument, and points to the fact that you are completely unaware of them, or deliberately ignoring them.
You will surely be aware that the British Government is responsible for managing the UK. They control the UK economy. They didn't impose austerity measures through some EU directive, cut council funding because of the ECJ, or introduce Universal Credit because the EU told us to.
I don't understand what you claim was lost to Europe?
You seem to be following in the footsteps of many leave voters, where you blame the EU for anything bad that has happened, and completely ignore the benefits we have gained from being members.
Your argument about unemployment seems foolish, as we are still members of the EU, and despite your claims, unemployment is at an all time low, and employment at an all time high.
You may wish to read the article below, which gives you details of £152million worth of funding which was made available by the EU, to the Stoke-on-Trent area.
https://www.stokestaffslep.org.uk/tenders/eu-funding-2014-2020/
And this one that refers to the £13 made available by the EU to tackle joblessness.
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/13-million-eu-funding-help-2923560
Maybe this one describing grants made available for business development by the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF),
https://www.stoke.gov.uk/info/20012/business/9/funding_for_businesses
Alternatively you could ignore them and continue with you misplaced views.
The final irony is that all we have now is warehousing and that's only because we stand less than a mile from the M6 and are smack in the middle of the North - South and East - West trunking routes. And who staffs these warehouses ? well its mainly European workers and good luck to them they work damned hard for their money.
And your point is?
That's why stoke on Trent voted 70% leave and if you consider that the 2 Universities have around 9,000 students then the core figure of permanent residents would probably have yielded a higher % than that considering nearly all students voted remain.
That is a pity.
So there you have it. Were not knuckle dragging racist bigots, opposing immigrants and foreigners. But like a stale marriage where your partner is no longer giving any support, comfort or love sometimes its just better to walk away and face the future on your own. Not so much a case of what have you done for me lately but a case of what have you ever done for me.
I prefer to think of it as follows,
The business that is called UK Ltd, which all its citizens depends on for a living, is choosing to part company with its largest customer, and putting faith in Donald Trump, who may wake up one morning, and cancel any trade deal we may have struck.
You still cant name one EU law that has affected you badly?
Or one tangible benefit you will get from leaving?
No wonder you are evasive when it comes to answering questions.
Do you think your opinions could be further from the truth?
You dont like them but rather than accept that they are rightfully mine you persist in aggresively trying to undermine them.
Why? Because you dont like them . So you want to change them. A lot like the referndum result isnt it.
Don't like that so I'll scream and shout and **** until something changes.
If you cant understand that then at least try to understand this.
I WAS ASKED WHETHER I WANTED TO LEAVE THE EU OR REMAIN IN THE EU.
52% elected to leave. It was not our job to question how we left or to consider economic ramifications or complex trade agreements.
We were never asked about the effect on the European border in Ireland or how it would impact the pitiful manufacturing industry we still have left.
At no point did the ballot paper ask us to find a solution to guarantee movement of people or the status of EU citizens living here.
We were asked a question which was answered.
The fact that the answer caused a sh1tstorm is NOT MY FAULT and if youre looking to blame people for the chaos thats going to ensue then blame those in power who didnt think this through before going to the country. Or how about those remain supporters who couldnt be rsed to vote because they thought it was a foregone conclusion.
The only people you cant blame are those who chose out. We merely did what it said on the tin.
CMON THEN BULLY BRING IT ON TELL ME THAT IM NOT ALLOWED MY OPINION AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHY IM NOT ALLOWED IT.
It splits families-as an example, my sister is fervently pro-Leave.
I understand the protest bit, particularly by people who feel ignored and left behind.
But Leave has totally changed since 2016. No deal is totally different from all the methods discussed in 2016.
Look at the total mess at the moment. Is this "getting our country back?"
1. We have (yet again) a conservative PM that the public have never voted for;
2. That is proposing to suspend Parliament because it doesn't agree with him (can anyone name anything less democratic than that?);
3. While a Party with 0 MPs is threatening to derail the Government unless it "works in partnership" with them;
4. And the leader of the "B-gger Brexit" Party seems to believe that it is more important to oppose Corbyn than Brexit
This has nothing to do with Brexit, or the people who voted for it.
Just politicians who demand "Democracy" while doing their utmost to plunge us into a dictatorship and ruin this country
At least when Phil rips my arguements apart he does it with some sympathy for my lack of understanding regarding the intracacies of the situation
At the end of the day you cant stomach that I am diametrically and vehemently opposed to your views and opinions so you belittle and deride anything i believe.
I could invite your opinions on Christianity and then use masses of deep theologian reasoning to make you seem stupid and small regardless of your original answer. however that would be the actions of a resentful and bitter man and I am neither.
I will leave this thread by stating that I really hope that Brexit, if it comes, does not ruin your life and that you realise that its not all doom and gloom.
I will leave you with one final opinion. There is no point in taking anything in life to seriously. We don't get out alive.
Yours in life
Mark
I am not sure what you expect from a Brexit thread.
Any debate about a referendum will involve 2 sides, and could be described as Us v Them.
I cant disagree with the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
You cant have a debate unless there are two sides.
I think your criticism is unfair.
The key point of your "opinion" definition is the last line.
In particular the reference to proven facts.
There is a prominent figure quoted on this page that is blaming the EU, for the new handball rule in football, amongst other things.
Your criticism seems to indicate that you think that it would be wrong to point this out.
This is despite the fact that it fails the definition that you posted.
It is a proven fact that the EU do not interfere with football rules.
There are quite a number of other things that have been posted on this page that are blatantly untrue.
Pointing this out becomes difficult, as the poster often gets the hump with the person that draws attention to it.
I think that many leave voters attribute stuff to the EU, that they are clearly not responsible for. This is not just restricted to handball rules.
Anyway that's besides the point, as I said previously, I am disappointed you came to this decision, but good luck on the tables.
The two posts below illustrate perfectly the point I was trying to make.