Good evening everyone. As Omaha hi lo heads up sng games are almost the only game I play on Sky and according to sharkscope I seem to have played more than 13,000 games on Sky I thought I would add some comments.
I don't have any concerns about the RNG on SKY and I say this as someone that has strong views that theoretically the RNG on a poker site could be open to abuse. I personally feel that all poker sites should be proactively open about the audit of the RNG which is undertaken and publish an audit report which is easily available on every poker companies website to review - much in the way that a listed company will include a detailed statement in their annual report and accounts regarding the audit, its scope, the outcome and who undertook it. However, just because this is not currently done by poker companies does not mean automatically that something untoward is happening - it is more that the regularity and scope of the audit is not very well communicated to the players. To me such a change would provide more knowledge to players and more comfort.
Now on to the games I play on Sky and any suspicious dealing of cards. Well, I don't have any concerns. This would include no favouritism to bad players, good players or those in between in terms of quality of starting hands, flops hitting or missing your hand and then changes on the turn and river. There are bad beats and there are holds and sometimes you can be on a good run and other times on a bad run when it comes to variance. It can sometimes "feel" that you have to win a plo8 hu game about four or five times but when you come to look at the equity positions afterwards you realise that actually sometimes you have to be patient. I have played games which have been very one-sided in terms of favourable cards both in my favour and not in my favour but that happens sometimes. However, I would expect this over the course of 13,000 games or so. I should also add I watch a lot of head up plo8 games as well - always a good use of time to understand how players play in a small pool of players. When watching other players play and with the advantage of no emotional involvement in the game I have never seen anything untoward happen. Waddy, I should also advise that includes watching some of your games too.
Anyway just my views and opinions and as someone that plays a lot of the games in question I thought I would add my impression (albeit not evidence).
If anyone else wanted to verify whether or not Waddy's impression of PLO8 games or my impression (or indeed anyone else's impression) is correct, please come along to the PLO8 heads up lobby for a game. We could always do with increasing the player pool and above all it is a very enjoyable game to play.
i cant speak for omaha as you get more whole cards than you do texas hold-em and this thread is only what i play hold-em
Yes, Omaha is a particularly complex game but at least people get dealt whole cards. Hold-em is easier but can be tricky when you only get dealt half a card.
@waddy The cardplayer calc does both plo and hi/lo.
I think you saying "That is my experience of the modern day online poker, i cant change that or explain it" is quite telling.
It is your experience but you treat it as fact.
Are you really suggesting that myself, Phil, nostri (cant remember who else has posted) don't play much poker? Think we don't play outside of sky?
I think if you go back, i thanked Nostri, Feelgroggy for their eloquent poker posts. Yourself, essexphil just queried the term of 'sponsorship', which i attempted to explain it was Badbeat.coms terming that stuck with me. I appreciate backed is a better term and i agreed with that.
Any other post has been from 'professional sky forum posters', who have not tried to have a poker debate and just attacked me personally, just for answering the original post question from a guy who is struggling with the deck too.
They took on an argument, cos thats what they do.
Its my experience yes, 8yrs pre black friday and 11yrs post black friday. Hundreds of thousands of hands during both times. Combined im sure it will be in millions+ territory. I think its a decent cross section to have an opinion.
I also had the 888 experience (previous full info on player 'shipppy' post) where i could see there was an auto win in omaha heads up, after a player had called off a huge pot when obviously beat, to leave himself short stacked. The first all in preflop, i recorded hundreds of auto wins for them on the bounce. I didnt win one.
So yes my experience is ive become the most unluckiest player that ever lived since black friday, or something isnt right.
Strange, I don't recall you thanking me for my post, despite the fact that I spent quite a long time researching and arranging my findings and citing every single source as concisely and clearly as I could for you.
What you actually did was suggest I didn't understand what I had read, call me a "pain in the ****," and dismiss everything I said out of hand without any reference to anything factual, making a series of unsourced claims along the way.
You've given similar or worse treatment to several other people in this thread, among them very accomplished players, and several professional players, with solid win rates at the highest stakes the site offers, who I'm sure would all tell you they play poker in a way that doesn't make any concessions for a "rigged" deck. They, like the rest of us, have experienced their fair share of bad beats and one-outers. Yet they're not jumping on this thread agreeing with you, because they understand that it's simply how probabilities work.
It's a common theme in this thread that you are rude and dismissive of anyone who attempts to help you understand why you do not have a strong argument, yet nothing but good things to say about anyone who makes vaguely agreeable or understanding points in your favour.
Questioning the integrity of online casinos is a perfectly understandable thing to do but it could not be clearer that you have already decided your opinion is fact and you are not at all open to any other hypothesis. Claiming you are the unluckiest player who ever lived while being able to demonstrate an impressive win rate in the games you play on Sky is approaching the level of farce.
This is all one of the biggest failures of critical thinking I have ever seen.
If you would rather stew in your own confirmation bias then that is up to you but I don't think you should be surprised that people aren't taking your claims very seriously.
You appear to have very strong views and seem strong willed. That's fine, insulting people surely is not. In return you have had a bit of backlash shall we say while receiving the benefit of experienced poker players opinion. Quite frankly, you have had your fill.
Seems the 'only' person who gets you is Midnightma, he (I assume) gave an opinion that sees your point of view, to a point and you agree with it and has been the only person you agree with.
Can I put it to you that you just want people to agree with you and the rest of what is posted here is 'wrong' or is simply dismissed by yourself?
I have copied and pasted your insults to members of this forum and went through the whole thread. Below is the remarks you have made in the thread to others or speaking ill of people:-
"site fan loonies"
"tea club fanatics"
"your tea club"
"You have lost the ability to Moderate with a clear head and just let the Tea Club say the most inane things"
"you halfwits"
"5 fkwits"
"Another fkwit"
"so fk him too......."
" Just a pain in the ****."
"talk about one sided fkwits"
"Done. Thick as pigshite"
"'STFU im a christian'.... never seen that one on a placard"
"this is a poker site lad"
Try to sit on it and think through in a clearer frame of mind the comments that were posted by others and digest them. See it from a 3rd person perspective or show someone close to you this thread and see what they think. Ideally someone in your life who is able to challenge your thoughts and feelings.
Maybe take your medicine time?
Even I can see the point @Cammykaze is trying to make.
And I am "as thick as pigshite". Apparently
You forget to offset it with the comments i had... i mean STFU placard was simply putting on a placard what he had said to me, yet you fairly put this down as my comment. Good one.
Not unfair and I likely am in the wrong with this comment while not picking up the full context, my apologies.
To others and myself it 'seemed' you have came in like a bull in a china shop and are at odds with several posters here. Hopefully I am not one of them, if I am so be it.
Can you though, maybe accept the rest of the comments are not pleasant to read from a member of the forum with no real agenda? I am someone who enjoys playing on Sky to unwind and simply does not like to read these sorts of things when visiting the forum.
As I have touched on earlier in the thread, personally sarcasm is something I do not like (not from you btw) and we maybe agree on that one. I also believe this is not completely one sided and you are not 100% in the wrong. That would not be right.
GregDKY82 'a paranoid mess', 'get another hobby'
It's gregkdy82 btw and I don't think saying you are being a paranoid mess is really calling names. I would apologise for offending you but seeing as you are calling everyone names and continually trying to mock a man for his religious beliefs i won't bother. Having just caught up with the thread you've done nothing but prove me right in the 10 or so pages i have just read anyway. Imagine getting yourself into such a state you're actually emailing the gambling commission ffs.
My other comment 'find another hobby mate' I stand by also. You responded to this by saying you were up £22k (same as I am on Sky coincidentally). Well there are literally hundreds of other hobbies you could take up that could make you a bit of money on the side. Poker isn't for you if it is giving you the sort of mental problems you are experiencing even if you are winning a bit of money. I like partaking in sports betting and trading and make a bit from both but don't think they'd be for you either. My youngest sister makes a few quid decorating polystyrene teddy bears and selling them online, maybe you could give something like that a go.
I have no problem with that post TOOTRUE, though you dont mention if you are a winning player or not. It is key, as back in the day when i used Sharkscope, i would see players with humongous amount of games... but with a $20,000 loss... clearly their understanding of poker was not in a position to comment on how a deck was performing in relation to maths.
Clearly in an industry where the biggest thread ever was on the subject of randomness and its a key part of a players decision of whether to play on a certain site. clarity would certainly help.
i think if you have watched my games and im sure ive played you too a few times as i recognise the name, you will know im commenting on the silly outcomes all the time ;0)
I dont know why i have never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop, even though all i play is hi lo heads up and hundreds of thousands of hands, which is a problem for me, even if we are keeping away from unusual amounts of long odds coming in, which you will never agree with.
The ins and outs of the technical side of how this is arrived at, that is not my field and not something i feel i need to explain, but have had a guess at. The fact that i have never seen a hand, which is the bread and butter of hi lo players, is what i know.
Something that has never happened, a normal flop, although i see runner runner for Quads etc. I mean, you got to acknowledge that is very odd if nothing else.
You have "never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop"? "Something that has never happened, a normal flop"?
I don't play HU PLO8. But I have played millions of hands of PLO8/O8 etc on this and other sites. The hands you mention are not "normal"-they are no more (and no less) likely than lots of other hands. Guess what? I've seen lots of different flops. All exactly in line with what anyone would expect. Including thousands of exactly the sort of flops you claim never to have seen.
SB&G is a small-ish part of the Flutter Group. Sky Poker is a tiny part of SB&G-probably about 1%. PLO8 is a tiny part of Sky Poker. Almost certainly considerably less than 1%. Of the sites that offer PLO8, Sky has one of the lowest PLO8 offerings. Sky Poker has Software that barely functions, as @hhyftrftdr rightly pointed out. Even if it wanted to (and it would need to be totally mad to do so), it lacks the capability.
There has been a range of posters on this thread. Some from recreational players-who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site. And, from at least 3 people (off the top of my head, without going through this thread) who have played a lot of poker. And have made significant money.
My experience is very different to yours.
You have not played HU hi lo. Well why comment then? My point is ALL the variations, brands of poker, MTT, Razz, different table sizes whatever.... have things in place to stop bad players losing more than they should.
That is one of the things in place for omaha hi lo heads up.
You do see these hands in MTT i agree. What i notice in MTT hi lo, is there is a huge amount of hi only flops, even when 5/6 have folded round, suggesting the deck is rich in low cards. Especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in a deck, still huge amount of hi flops with no-one in the pot. Poor players have been given an edge there.
This is my experience... my vast experience.
Its not about 'we are not going to touch this game, as there is not enough in it for us'... any edge a gambling house can gain is maximising its potential, same as any company that exists do.
Again its not about the money that can be made from hi lo in fees, its about retaining customers. If players lose alot of money, they leave. Some, as you know are stopped from depositing more, and The GC are hot on this, as they have with 888 recently. It is not good business to have BIG losing players on many fronts, regardless of what they are playing. A player could win 10 £2 hold em HU on the bounce... and on a saturday night pissd up decide to play omaha hi lo for £30... hes then a losing player and a risk to lose his custom.
Absolutely every site has these things in place now, whereas pre black friday it was just the greedy Pokerstars. I think if you are claiming Sky dont have the funds or capability, im suprised you are backing the deck as being state of the art and being able to compare with Pokerstars in the first place,
Let's look at this stage by stage.
1. You start with "why comment then?" And then answer your own question. Any "RNG" that does not randomly generate numbers is not an RNG. And poker sites don't have different systems for different types of stakes/games-as you have said yourself
2. If you "see the hands in MTT" it necessarily follows that you see them in all types of PLO8-see point 1
3. There is a huge amount of hi only flops...especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in the deck." Really? Read this, for example:-
Your maths is using the wrong basis. It is not as simple as 32 cards of 8 or lower. At least 3 of the 5 community cards have to be 8 or lower, AND be different numbers. AND then you need to have 2 cards of 8 or lower that are different to at least 3 of them.
The thing good players knew in 2011 was how important scooping was. But games evolve. People routinely overvalue low hands currently. I love getting nutted high and lows. But I take all the pot far more often when there is no low.
4. Your "vast experience". Where? Not on Sky. Define "vast experience". Because I am 1 of several players on this thread who have more than 10x your experience, and 10x your profit.
5. "888". Having previously been fined for safeguarding problem gambler issues, they still were not undertaking any meaningful checks until after people had deposited more than £40,000. And no meaningful money laundering checks.
6. Pre-Black Friday? Stars continued to accept US players for some time after the UIGEA was passed in 2006. For 5 years. Because Black Friday was inevitable for 5 years. While overtaking Party as the leading poker site as a result.
You have 10 x my 20yrs online experience? And u say my maths is using the wrong basis! Its all in the thread, im not repeating myself.
On sky based on sharkscope you have played 1481 games, Phil has played 28661. This doesn't include cash games and only focuses on sky but that is the point Phil was making. Also, groggy and myself have played more games on sky than that.
All these figures are a drop in the ocean, i would think sky would represent about 1% of my poker games in 20yrs. I do think sky is currently the best for me.
I dont know why i have never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop, even though all i play is hi lo heads up and hundreds of thousands of hands, which is a problem for me, even if we are keeping away from unusual amounts of long odds coming in, which you will never agree with.
The ins and outs of the technical side of how this is arrived at, that is not my field and not something i feel i need to explain, but have had a guess at. The fact that i have never seen a hand, which is the bread and butter of hi lo players, is what i know.
Something that has never happened, a normal flop, although i see runner runner for Quads etc. I mean, you got to acknowledge that is very odd if nothing else.
You have "never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop"? "Something that has never happened, a normal flop"?
I don't play HU PLO8. But I have played millions of hands of PLO8/O8 etc on this and other sites. The hands you mention are not "normal"-they are no more (and no less) likely than lots of other hands. Guess what? I've seen lots of different flops. All exactly in line with what anyone would expect. Including thousands of exactly the sort of flops you claim never to have seen.
SB&G is a small-ish part of the Flutter Group. Sky Poker is a tiny part of SB&G-probably about 1%. PLO8 is a tiny part of Sky Poker. Almost certainly considerably less than 1%. Of the sites that offer PLO8, Sky has one of the lowest PLO8 offerings. Sky Poker has Software that barely functions, as @hhyftrftdr rightly pointed out. Even if it wanted to (and it would need to be totally mad to do so), it lacks the capability.
There has been a range of posters on this thread. Some from recreational players-who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site. And, from at least 3 people (off the top of my head, without going through this thread) who have played a lot of poker. And have made significant money.
My experience is very different to yours.
You have not played HU hi lo. Well why comment then? My point is ALL the variations, brands of poker, MTT, Razz, different table sizes whatever.... have things in place to stop bad players losing more than they should.
That is one of the things in place for omaha hi lo heads up.
You do see these hands in MTT i agree. What i notice in MTT hi lo, is there is a huge amount of hi only flops, even when 5/6 have folded round, suggesting the deck is rich in low cards. Especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in a deck, still huge amount of hi flops with no-one in the pot. Poor players have been given an edge there.
This is my experience... my vast experience.
Its not about 'we are not going to touch this game, as there is not enough in it for us'... any edge a gambling house can gain is maximising its potential, same as any company that exists do.
Again its not about the money that can be made from hi lo in fees, its about retaining customers. If players lose alot of money, they leave. Some, as you know are stopped from depositing more, and The GC are hot on this, as they have with 888 recently. It is not good business to have BIG losing players on many fronts, regardless of what they are playing. A player could win 10 £2 hold em HU on the bounce... and on a saturday night pissd up decide to play omaha hi lo for £30... hes then a losing player and a risk to lose his custom.
Absolutely every site has these things in place now, whereas pre black friday it was just the greedy Pokerstars. I think if you are claiming Sky dont have the funds or capability, im suprised you are backing the deck as being state of the art and being able to compare with Pokerstars in the first place,
Let's look at this stage by stage.
1. You start with "why comment then?" And then answer your own question. Any "RNG" that does not randomly generate numbers is not an RNG. And poker sites don't have different systems for different types of stakes/games-as you have said yourself
2. If you "see the hands in MTT" it necessarily follows that you see them in all types of PLO8-see point 1
3. There is a huge amount of hi only flops...especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in the deck." Really? Read this, for example:-
Your maths is using the wrong basis. It is not as simple as 32 cards of 8 or lower. At least 3 of the 5 community cards have to be 8 or lower, AND be different numbers. AND then you need to have 2 cards of 8 or lower that are different to at least 3 of them.
The thing good players knew in 2011 was how important scooping was. But games evolve. People routinely overvalue low hands currently. I love getting nutted high and lows. But I take all the pot far more often when there is no low.
4. Your "vast experience". Where? Not on Sky. Define "vast experience". Because I am 1 of several players on this thread who have more than 10x your experience, and 10x your profit.
5. "888". Having previously been fined for safeguarding problem gambler issues, they still were not undertaking any meaningful checks until after people had deposited more than £40,000. And no meaningful money laundering checks.
6. Pre-Black Friday? Stars continued to accept US players for some time after the UIGEA was passed in 2006. For 5 years. Because Black Friday was inevitable for 5 years. While overtaking Party as the leading poker site as a result.
You have 10 x my 20yrs online experience? And u say my maths is using the wrong basis! Its all in the thread, im not repeating myself.
On sky based on sharkscope you have played 1481 games, Phil has played 28661. This doesn't include cash games and only focuses on sky but that is the point Phil was making. Also, groggy and myself have played more games on sky than that.
All these figures are a drop in the ocean, i would think sky would represent about 1% of my poker games in 20yrs. I do think sky is currently the best for me.
Jeeze, I hate to ask but what do you think of the RNGs on the other sites if you think the Sky site is best for you?
Hi The Waddy - thanks for the post. I am a winning player at the modest levels I play at. My stats used to be feely available to see on sharkscope but I think there was a change four or so years ago owing to data protection. At that time for the stats to be shown again for SkyPoker players you had to opt in to Sharkscope and I never bothered. However, if you check Sharkscope and do a search for me, you will see at the very stakes at which you play at present I achieved a diamond star two years in a row (2016 and 2017) for highest average profit from a streak of 500 games. Therefore hope that gives you sufficient comfort of my understanding of the game.
Late to the party on this one guys. I really wish you hadn't spilled the beans on the rigged RNG @TheWaddy but as you have I suppose it's only fair that I share my 'Rigged Sky MTT UTG Range' that helped me become a profitable player on Sky. Please everyone use this opening range and start raking in the £££ like me (oh and incase its not clear, always call or raise when facing a 3bet as you'll always beat those pesky 'premium' hands) ...
I dont know why i have never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop, even though all i play is hi lo heads up and hundreds of thousands of hands, which is a problem for me, even if we are keeping away from unusual amounts of long odds coming in, which you will never agree with.
The ins and outs of the technical side of how this is arrived at, that is not my field and not something i feel i need to explain, but have had a guess at. The fact that i have never seen a hand, which is the bread and butter of hi lo players, is what i know.
Something that has never happened, a normal flop, although i see runner runner for Quads etc. I mean, you got to acknowledge that is very odd if nothing else.
You have "never seen a hi lo big wrap draw on the flop"? "Something that has never happened, a normal flop"?
I don't play HU PLO8. But I have played millions of hands of PLO8/O8 etc on this and other sites. The hands you mention are not "normal"-they are no more (and no less) likely than lots of other hands. Guess what? I've seen lots of different flops. All exactly in line with what anyone would expect. Including thousands of exactly the sort of flops you claim never to have seen.
SB&G is a small-ish part of the Flutter Group. Sky Poker is a tiny part of SB&G-probably about 1%. PLO8 is a tiny part of Sky Poker. Almost certainly considerably less than 1%. Of the sites that offer PLO8, Sky has one of the lowest PLO8 offerings. Sky Poker has Software that barely functions, as @hhyftrftdr rightly pointed out. Even if it wanted to (and it would need to be totally mad to do so), it lacks the capability.
There has been a range of posters on this thread. Some from recreational players-who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site. And, from at least 3 people (off the top of my head, without going through this thread) who have played a lot of poker. And have made significant money.
My experience is very different to yours.
You have not played HU hi lo. Well why comment then? My point is ALL the variations, brands of poker, MTT, Razz, different table sizes whatever.... have things in place to stop bad players losing more than they should.
That is one of the things in place for omaha hi lo heads up.
You do see these hands in MTT i agree. What i notice in MTT hi lo, is there is a huge amount of hi only flops, even when 5/6 have folded round, suggesting the deck is rich in low cards. Especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in a deck, still huge amount of hi flops with no-one in the pot. Poor players have been given an edge there.
This is my experience... my vast experience.
Its not about 'we are not going to touch this game, as there is not enough in it for us'... any edge a gambling house can gain is maximising its potential, same as any company that exists do.
Again its not about the money that can be made from hi lo in fees, its about retaining customers. If players lose alot of money, they leave. Some, as you know are stopped from depositing more, and The GC are hot on this, as they have with 888 recently. It is not good business to have BIG losing players on many fronts, regardless of what they are playing. A player could win 10 £2 hold em HU on the bounce... and on a saturday night pissd up decide to play omaha hi lo for £30... hes then a losing player and a risk to lose his custom.
Absolutely every site has these things in place now, whereas pre black friday it was just the greedy Pokerstars. I think if you are claiming Sky dont have the funds or capability, im suprised you are backing the deck as being state of the art and being able to compare with Pokerstars in the first place,
Let's look at this stage by stage.
1. You start with "why comment then?" And then answer your own question. Any "RNG" that does not randomly generate numbers is not an RNG. And poker sites don't have different systems for different types of stakes/games-as you have said yourself
2. If you "see the hands in MTT" it necessarily follows that you see them in all types of PLO8-see point 1
3. There is a huge amount of hi only flops...especially as there are more cards of 8 or lower in the deck." Really? Read this, for example:-
Your maths is using the wrong basis. It is not as simple as 32 cards of 8 or lower. At least 3 of the 5 community cards have to be 8 or lower, AND be different numbers. AND then you need to have 2 cards of 8 or lower that are different to at least 3 of them.
The thing good players knew in 2011 was how important scooping was. But games evolve. People routinely overvalue low hands currently. I love getting nutted high and lows. But I take all the pot far more often when there is no low.
4. Your "vast experience". Where? Not on Sky. Define "vast experience". Because I am 1 of several players on this thread who have more than 10x your experience, and 10x your profit.
5. "888". Having previously been fined for safeguarding problem gambler issues, they still were not undertaking any meaningful checks until after people had deposited more than £40,000. And no meaningful money laundering checks.
6. Pre-Black Friday? Stars continued to accept US players for some time after the UIGEA was passed in 2006. For 5 years. Because Black Friday was inevitable for 5 years. While overtaking Party as the leading poker site as a result.
You have 10 x my 20yrs online experience? And u say my maths is using the wrong basis! Its all in the thread, im not repeating myself.
On sky based on sharkscope you have played 1481 games, Phil has played 28661. This doesn't include cash games and only focuses on sky but that is the point Phil was making. Also, groggy and myself have played more games on sky than that.
All these figures are a drop in the ocean, i would think sky would represent about 1% of my poker games in 20yrs. I do think sky is currently the best for me.
Jeeze, I hate to ask but what do you think of the RNGs on the other sites if you think the Sky site is best for you?
I have never called out sky particulary, i think you will find my posts relate to online poker in general and definitely 888 in that situation where the outcome was ever just one. I think ive said several times why i play here.
Hi The Waddy - thanks for the post. I am a winning player at the modest levels I play at. My stats used to be feely available to see on sharkscope but I think there was a change four or so years ago owing to data protection. At that time for the stats to be shown again for SkyPoker players you had to opt in to Sharkscope and I never bothered. However, if you check Sharkscope and do a search for me, you will see at the very stakes at which you play at present I achieved a diamond star two years in a row (2016 and 2017) for highest average profit from a streak of 500 games. Therefore hope that gives you sufficient comfort of my understanding of the game.
Thats cool TOOTRUE, its just i feel you HAVE to be a winning player to be able to comment on a RNG and related content. Cleary players who are not understanding maths and poker in general, are not in a position to comment.
The Edge here, has contributed aggressively the most on this... but now says he is a losing player and is depositing.... i mean wtf!
Are you seeing any flops of 3d 5c Jd, whilst holding Ad 2c Kd 4c? I never see wrap big hi lo draws in HU games... maybe big lo draw, but not both hi lo flops.
@waddy The cardplayer calc does both plo and hi/lo.
I think you saying "That is my experience of the modern day online poker, i cant change that or explain it" is quite telling.
It is your experience but you treat it as fact.
Are you really suggesting that myself, Phil, nostri (cant remember who else has posted) don't play much poker? Think we don't play outside of sky?
I think if you go back, i thanked Nostri, Feelgroggy for their eloquent poker posts. Yourself, essexphil just queried the term of 'sponsorship', which i attempted to explain it was Badbeat.coms terming that stuck with me. I appreciate backed is a better term and i agreed with that.
Any other post has been from 'professional sky forum posters', who have not tried to have a poker debate and just attacked me personally, just for answering the original post question from a guy who is struggling with the deck too.
They took on an argument, cos thats what they do.
Its my experience yes, 8yrs pre black friday and 11yrs post black friday. Hundreds of thousands of hands during both times. Combined im sure it will be in millions+ territory. I think its a decent cross section to have an opinion.
I also had the 888 experience (previous full info on player 'shipppy' post) where i could see there was an auto win in omaha heads up, after a player had called off a huge pot when obviously beat, to leave himself short stacked. The first all in preflop, i recorded hundreds of auto wins for them on the bounce. I didnt win one.
So yes my experience is ive become the most unluckiest player that ever lived since black friday, or something isnt right.
Strange, I don't recall you thanking me for my post, despite the fact that I spent quite a long time researching and arranging my findings and citing every single source as concisely and clearly as I could for you.
What you actually did was suggest I didn't understand what I had read, call me a "pain in the ****," and dismiss everything I said out of hand without any reference to anything factual, making a series of unsourced claims along the way.
You've given similar or worse treatment to several other people in this thread, among them very accomplished players, and several professional players, with solid win rates at the highest stakes the site offers, who I'm sure would all tell you they play poker in a way that doesn't make any concessions for a "rigged" deck. They, like the rest of us, have experienced their fair share of bad beats and one-outers. Yet they're not jumping on this thread agreeing with you, because they understand that it's simply how probabilities work.
It's a common theme in this thread that you are rude and dismissive of anyone who attempts to help you understand why you do not have a strong argument, yet nothing but good things to say about anyone who makes vaguely agreeable or understanding points in your favour.
Questioning the integrity of online casinos is a perfectly understandable thing to do but it could not be clearer that you have already decided your opinion is fact and you are not at all open to any other hypothesis. Claiming you are the unluckiest player who ever lived while being able to demonstrate an impressive win rate in the games you play on Sky is approaching the level of farce.
This is all one of the biggest failures of critical thinking I have ever seen.
If you would rather stew in your own confirmation bias then that is up to you but I don't think you should be surprised that people aren't taking your claims very seriously.
You appear to have very strong views and seem strong willed. That's fine, insulting people surely is not. In return you have had a bit of backlash shall we say while receiving the benefit of experienced poker players opinion. Quite frankly, you have had your fill.
Seems the 'only' person who gets you is Midnightma, he (I assume) gave an opinion that sees your point of view, to a point and you agree with it and has been the only person you agree with.
Can I put it to you that you just want people to agree with you and the rest of what is posted here is 'wrong' or is simply dismissed by yourself?
I have copied and pasted your insults to members of this forum and went through the whole thread. Below is the remarks you have made in the thread to others or speaking ill of people:-
"site fan loonies"
"tea club fanatics"
"your tea club"
"You have lost the ability to Moderate with a clear head and just let the Tea Club say the most inane things"
"you halfwits"
"5 fkwits"
"Another fkwit"
"so fk him too......."
" Just a pain in the ****."
"talk about one sided fkwits"
"Done. Thick as pigshite"
"'STFU im a christian'.... never seen that one on a placard"
"this is a poker site lad"
Try to sit on it and think through in a clearer frame of mind the comments that were posted by others and digest them. See it from a 3rd person perspective or show someone close to you this thread and see what they think. Ideally someone in your life who is able to challenge your thoughts and feelings.
Maybe take your medicine time?
Even I can see the point @Cammykaze is trying to make.
And I am "as thick as pigshite". Apparently
You forget to offset it with the comments i had... i mean STFU placard was simply putting on a placard what he had said to me, yet you fairly put this down as my comment. Good one.
Not unfair and I likely am in the wrong with this comment while not picking up the full context, my apologies.
To others and myself it 'seemed' you have came in like a bull in a china shop and are at odds with several posters here. Hopefully I am not one of them, if I am so be it.
Can you though, maybe accept the rest of the comments are not pleasant to read from a member of the forum with no real agenda? I am someone who enjoys playing on Sky to unwind and simply does not like to read these sorts of things when visiting the forum.
As I have touched on earlier in the thread, personally sarcasm is something I do not like (not from you btw) and we maybe agree on that one. I also believe this is not completely one sided and you are not 100% in the wrong. That would not be right.
GregDKY82 'a paranoid mess', 'get another hobby'
It's gregkdy82 btw and I don't think saying you are being a paranoid mess is really calling names. I would apologise for offending you but seeing as you are calling everyone names and continually trying to mock a man for his religious beliefs i won't bother. Having just caught up with the thread you've done nothing but prove me right in the 10 or so pages i have just read anyway. Imagine getting yourself into such a state you're actually emailing the gambling commission ffs.
My other comment 'find another hobby mate' I stand by also. You responded to this by saying you were up £22k (same as I am on Sky coincidentally). Well there are literally hundreds of other hobbies you could take up that could make you a bit of money on the side. Poker isn't for you if it is giving you the sort of mental problems you are experiencing even if you are winning a bit of money. I like partaking in sports betting and trading and make a bit from both but don't think they'd be for you either. My youngest sister makes a few quid decorating polystyrene teddy bears and selling them online, maybe you could give something like that a go.
Good Luck
'I would apologise for offending you'.... followed by 'poker is giving you mental problems' and 'maybe you would like to decorate teddy bears'......
I continually mock a man for his religious beliefs, perhaps because he is as rude as you and acts in the opposite to what any christian would behave..... in attacking someone just for his beliefs. Isnt that what happened to jesus, if i remember from school!?
Anyway this post shows you are of the same mind, so i wont win this one.
So pre Black Friday nobody with the exception of Stars was dodgy ?
Not Full Tilt, Pokah, Ladbrokes, Ultimate, Pacific, PKR, Midnight, Party, 888, or any of the other sites I might have played on and forgotten over the years.
As a losing player on Stars, Sky, Party and 888 since Black Friday why has none of this software helped me to not have to reload?
Balance is zero right now actually so reloading tomorrow.
Might come and search you out on the HU Hi/Lo PLO tables just to see if your theory holds water. I will wear a wetsuit though as I presume it will leak like a submarine with a screen door.
Reload is something i have NEVER needed to do, on any site, ever.
But hey i can see why you have contributed so much on this... despite clearly not being in a position to comment at all as it turns out. It gets weirder and weirder.
You havent even worked out why you are losing, so how on earth would you know if the deck is performing to maths or not?
In all seriousness though @TheWaddy, have you done any research at all on how poker sites use RNG? I don't want to waste too much time on you as you clearly have a pre-determined view on this that no amount of reason will change, however, if you had done even the slightest of research into how poker sites use RNG this thread wouldn't exist.
Hi Waddy - thanks for the post. Yes, from time to time I am seeing the types of flops that you are describing. However, it is worth mentioning that statistically you are not going to be dealt the type of hand that you are describing that often (double suited as well) and then for the flop to land perfectly for you but for your opponent to be holding a starting hand where the flop hits them just enough to keep them calling. With heads up plo8 play you are going to have to play a very wide variety of hands and then have to make decisions based on the flop and other streets. I don't want to go into too much tactical detail about my play but I play a style which is quite different to that played by many other players (and probably frowned upon) but is effective for me and allows me to exploit what I think are the weaker aspects of my opponent's play.
Tell me, who does the information on RNGs belong to? Poker sites, The Gambling Commission and external auditors? I mean, everyone can do that.
If you look on the Police website, it tells you what their good work does too, strangely doesnt mention any corruption or anything which is the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing......
So pre Black Friday nobody with the exception of Stars was dodgy ?
Not Full Tilt, Pokah, Ladbrokes, Ultimate, Pacific, PKR, Midnight, Party, 888, or any of the other sites I might have played on and forgotten over the years.
As a losing player on Stars, Sky, Party and 888 since Black Friday why has none of this software helped me to not have to reload?
Balance is zero right now actually so reloading tomorrow.
Might come and search you out on the HU Hi/Lo PLO tables just to see if your theory holds water. I will wear a wetsuit though as I presume it will leak like a submarine with a screen door.
Reload is something i have NEVER needed to do, on any site, ever.
But hey i can see why you have contributed so much on this... despite clearly not being in a position to comment at all as it turns out. It gets weirder and weirder.
You havent even worked out why you are losing, so how on earth would you know if the deck is performing to maths or not?
I lose because I play for sh17s and giggles, I don't play to win money I play as fun and entertainment. I gamble with thin draws, I push middle pairs and I always call a preflop all in.
Guess what, I am happy doing that. Poker for me isn't about making money, certainly not at the micros. Live I play very seriously, even £50 tourneys. Online I view £2.20 mtts and £1 sngs as nothing more than slot type fun without the dodgy graphics.
Oh and as for your recollections of Christian Doctrine. Unfortunately, that's how the world perceives most of it. You probably think Songs of Praise is a fair representation of the type of people we are and that we are all goody goody, turn the other cheek, walk all over us and abuse our love, grace and goodwill types.
I have used this point on here in the past to explain.
My Son, who is an adult with his own family is sometimes capable of being an absolute tw@t. I have no issues with calling him out and telling him to stop being a cnut and to wind his neck in.
The fact that I am a Christian has nothing to do with it. I love him unconditionally and always will.
The same applies to anybody else, I will always pray for them, and would never deny anybody grace or forgiveness for their wrongs but this does not preclude me from telling them straight if I think they're being complete douchebags.
So whilst telling you to STFU may be unorthadox, unusual and disconcerting, I'm fairly confident that it's no big issue with the Man upstairs.
Come on now where's that hug, you know it makes sense.
Hi The Waddy - thanks for the post. I am a winning player at the modest levels I play at. My stats used to be feely available to see on sharkscope but I think there was a change four or so years ago owing to data protection. At that time for the stats to be shown again for SkyPoker players you had to opt in to Sharkscope and I never bothered. However, if you check Sharkscope and do a search for me, you will see at the very stakes at which you play at present I achieved a diamond star two years in a row (2016 and 2017) for highest average profit from a streak of 500 games. Therefore hope that gives you sufficient comfort of my understanding of the game.
Thats cool TOOTRUE, its just i feel you HAVE to be a winning player to be able to comment on a RNG and related content. Cleary players who are not understanding maths and poker in general, are not in a position to comment.
The Edge here, has contributed aggressively the most on this... but now says he is a losing player and is depositing.... i mean wtf!
Are you seeing any flops of 3d 5c Jd, whilst holding Ad 2c Kd 4c? I never see wrap big hi lo draws in HU games... maybe big lo draw, but not both hi lo flops.
Good to have a proper conversation!
Flops of 3d 5c Jd when holding Ad 2c Kd 4c never happen? How's 3d 6s Jd when holding Ad 2h 10s 4d ? Close enough?
By the way this was within 20 minutes of starting the one PLO8 MTT I played today.
Flops of 3d 5c Jd when holding Ad 2c Kd 4c never happen? How's 3d 6s Jd when holding Ad 2h 10s 4d ? Close enough?
By the way this was within 20 minutes of starting the one PLO8 MTT I played today.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
Enut
Small blind
15.00
15.00
2915.00
fish4it231
Big blind
30.00
45.00
2865.00
Your hole cards
4
10
2
A
Sky2182
Call
30.00
75.00
2910.00
Weeman67
Fold
smartca627
Call
30.00
105.00
6090.00
Gatherer
Fold
Enut
Raise
135.00
240.00
2780.00
fish4it231
Fold
Sky2182
Call
120.00
360.00
2790.00
smartca627
Call
120.00
480.00
5970.00
Flop
J
3
6
Enut
Bet
240.00
720.00
2540.00
Sky2182
Call
240.00
960.00
2550.00
smartca627
Call
240.00
1200.00
5730.00
Turn
5
Enut
Bet
480.00
1680.00
2060.00
Sky2182
Call
480.00
2160.00
2070.00
smartca627
Call
480.00
2640.00
5250.00
River
9
Enut
All-in
2060.00
4700.00
0.00
Sky2182
All-in
2070.00
6770.00
0.00
smartca627
Fold
Sky2182
Unmatched bet
10.00
6760.00
10.00
Enut
Show
4
10
2
A
Sky2182
Show
A
2
8
A
Enut
Win high
Flush to the Ace
3380.00
3380.00
Enut
Win low
6-low
1690.00
5070.00
Sky2182
Win low
6-low
1690.00
1700.00
Not HU mate, next.
Thought this thread was about Holdem anyway.
****, you're right, specifically it has to be £1 HU PLO8 DYMs, played by TheWaddy, in his front room, whilst standing on one leg and reciting the National Anthem, backwards. That **** rigged RNG is so specifically rigged.
Hi Enut - thanks for posting an example. I was going to reply back to The Waddy re his example to talk about equity positions when the flop seemingly hits us perfectly but this is a good enough example. If this was a heads-up game and only you and Sky2182 were playing then equity position pre flop is 63% to 37% in Sky2182's favour. Now when the flop comes I can imagine that you are pretty pleased but at that stage you only have 52% equity compared to Sky's 48%. In Waddy's example he is including more straight possibilities so if we were to swap the 6s on the flop for 5s to include more straight draws then the equity only improves to 57% in your favour compared to your opponent's 43%. In your example the diamond comes straightaway on the turn. However, let's assume that the turn came Jh. At that stage you might be feeling less confident and your equity positions at that stage have changed so that you only have 33% equity and your opponent will now scoop the pot 45% of the time compared to just a 12.5% scoop possibility for you. You also now have it in the back of your mind that your flush draw might not be good. Therefore just wanted to highlight how sometimes in plo8 you can feel you are ahead more than you are and therefore when you don't scoop that you fell you have been more unlucky than was really the case.
Comments
Hold-em is easier but can be tricky when you only get dealt half a card.
My other comment 'find another hobby mate' I stand by also. You responded to this by saying you were up £22k (same as I am on Sky coincidentally). Well there are literally hundreds of other hobbies you could take up that could make you a bit of money on the side. Poker isn't for you if it is giving you the sort of mental problems you are experiencing even if you are winning a bit of money. I like partaking in sports betting and trading and make a bit from both but don't think they'd be for you either. My youngest sister makes a few quid decorating polystyrene teddy bears and selling them online, maybe you could give something like that a go.
Good Luck
Clearly in an industry where the biggest thread ever was on the subject of randomness and its a key part of a players decision of whether to play on a certain site. clarity would certainly help.
i think if you have watched my games and im sure ive played you too a few times as i recognise the name, you will know im commenting on the silly outcomes all the time ;0)
The Edge here, has contributed aggressively the most on this... but now says he is a losing player and is depositing.... i mean wtf!
Are you seeing any flops of 3d 5c Jd, whilst holding Ad 2c Kd 4c? I never see wrap big hi lo draws in HU games... maybe big lo draw, but not both hi lo flops.
Good to have a proper conversation!
I continually mock a man for his religious beliefs, perhaps because he is as rude as you and acts in the opposite to what any christian would behave..... in attacking someone just for his beliefs. Isnt that what happened to jesus, if i remember from school!?
Anyway this post shows you are of the same mind, so i wont win this one.
But hey i can see why you have contributed so much on this... despite clearly not being in a position to comment at all as it turns out. It gets weirder and weirder.
You havent even worked out why you are losing, so how on earth would you know if the deck is performing to maths or not?
If you look on the Police website, it tells you what their good work does too, strangely doesnt mention any corruption or anything which is the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing......
I lose because I play for sh17s and giggles, I don't play to win money I play as fun and entertainment. I gamble with thin draws, I push middle pairs and I always call a preflop all in.
Guess what, I am happy doing that. Poker for me isn't about making money, certainly not at the micros. Live I play very seriously, even £50 tourneys. Online I view £2.20 mtts and £1 sngs as nothing more than slot type fun without the dodgy graphics.
Oh and as for your recollections of Christian Doctrine. Unfortunately, that's how the world perceives most of it. You probably think Songs of Praise is a fair representation of the type of people we are and that we are all goody goody, turn the other cheek, walk all over us and abuse our love, grace and goodwill types.
I have used this point on here in the past to explain.
My Son, who is an adult with his own family is sometimes capable of being an absolute tw@t. I have no issues with calling him out and telling him to stop being a cnut and to wind his neck in.
The fact that I am a Christian has nothing to do with it. I love him unconditionally and always will.
The same applies to anybody else, I will always pray for them, and would never deny anybody grace or forgiveness for their wrongs but this does not preclude me from telling them straight if I think they're being complete douchebags.
So whilst telling you to STFU may be unorthadox, unusual and disconcerting, I'm fairly confident that it's no big issue with the Man upstairs.
Come on now where's that hug, you know it makes sense.
Flops of 3d 5c Jd when holding Ad 2c Kd 4c never happen?
How's 3d 6s Jd when holding Ad 2h 10s 4d ? Close enough?
By the way this was within 20 minutes of starting the one PLO8 MTT I played today.
Thought this thread was about Holdem anyway.