I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
They should cancel their summer reccess until this sh1t is sorted out. You can't leave the country in limbo for months with everything that's going at the moment.
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
2. The fact that he is not only, everything that Boris isnt, but also has all the qualities that we should surely be looking for in any politician, makes me wonder why he is not more popular.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
2. The fact that he is not only, everything that Boris isnt, but also has all the qualities that we should surely be looking for in any politician, makes me wonder why he is not more popular.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
We get the politicians we deserve.
When Boris said he would "get Brexit done", he meant it.
He wasn't going to seek consensus, like May. He wasn't going to stand for people in his Party not obeying him as PM (I often wonder how long it would have taken Boris PM to throw Boris MP out of the Party). He was just going to steamroller Brexit through. And worry about the aftermath later.
And people voted for exactly that. So Brexit has been done. With little or no plan as to what comes next.
Boris has a certain populist charm. Starmer will never be a populist. But that does not mean he will not win the next election.
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
2. The fact that he is not only, everything that Boris isnt, but also has all the qualities that we should surely be looking for in any politician, makes me wonder why he is not more popular.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
I think that Brexit is still an extremely divisive topic. There are claims that there is now a majority in favour of remaining, and if the referendum was rerun today there would be a different result. I can believe that this is the case, due to the problems that are associated with Brexit. However lets say it is still a 50/50 issue. Therefore including a pro Brexit message in a manifesto risks alienating 50% of the electorate. Although if it was a Labour manifesto, it may attract Tory remainers, but also drive Labour leavers away. The same would apply to an anti Brexit view. Brexit will undoubtedly complicate matters.
Interestingly a YouGov poll this morning on the Tory leadership, made Ben Wallace, a remainer, the clear winner amongst Tory members with 48% in favour of him, with 29% in favour of Liz Truss in second.
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
2. The fact that he is not only, everything that Boris isnt, but also has all the qualities that we should surely be looking for in any politician, makes me wonder why he is not more popular.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
I think that Brexit is still an extremely divisive topic. There are claims that there is now a majority in favour of remaining, and if the referendum was rerun today there would be a different result. I can believe that this is the case, due to the problems that are associated with Brexit. However lets say it is still a 50/50 issue. Therefore including a pro Brexit message in a manifesto risks alienating 50% of the electorate. Although if it was a Labour manifesto, it may attract Tory remainers, but also drive Labour leavers away. The same would apply to an anti Brexit view. Brexit will undoubtedly complicate matters.
Interestingly a YouGov poll this morning on the Tory leadership, made Ben Wallace, a remainer, the clear winner amongst Tory members with 48% in favour of him, with 29% in favour of Liz Truss in second.
I genuinely have no idea how people seriously believe we can remain. That ship has sailed.
Rightly or wrongly, we have left. If we want to rejoin, it is not just a question of us rocking up and taking our seats.
We would have to apply to rejoin. Get accepted by the people we so publicly rejected. And abide by the conditions they would impose for re-entry. Which could well include not only the European Court, but Schengen and joining the Euro.
People voted to leave on empty promises. Rejoiners are doing exactly the same thing-voting for a deal before knowing what it is.
I've mentioned this before in a different thread, but it bears repeating.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or 2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016); May- 2017 election, (gone 2019) Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Do you think it would suit Labour to have a snap election? Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public? Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Taking those in turn:-
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship 2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing 3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
2. The fact that he is not only, everything that Boris isnt, but also has all the qualities that we should surely be looking for in any politician, makes me wonder why he is not more popular.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
I think that Brexit is still an extremely divisive topic. There are claims that there is now a majority in favour of remaining, and if the referendum was rerun today there would be a different result. I can believe that this is the case, due to the problems that are associated with Brexit. However lets say it is still a 50/50 issue. Therefore including a pro Brexit message in a manifesto risks alienating 50% of the electorate. Although if it was a Labour manifesto, it may attract Tory remainers, but also drive Labour leavers away. The same would apply to an anti Brexit view. Brexit will undoubtedly complicate matters.
Interestingly a YouGov poll this morning on the Tory leadership, made Ben Wallace, a remainer, the clear winner amongst Tory members with 48% in favour of him, with 29% in favour of Liz Truss in second.
I genuinely have no idea how people seriously believe we can remain. That ship has sailed.
Rightly or wrongly, we have left. If we want to rejoin, it is not just a question of us rocking up and taking our seats.
We would have to apply to rejoin. Get accepted by the people we so publicly rejected. And abide by the conditions they would impose for re-entry. Which could well include not only the European Court, but Schengen and joining the Euro.
People voted to leave on empty promises. Rejoiners are doing exactly the same thing-voting for a deal before knowing what it is.
I am not suggesting that anyone should propose rejoining. The point I am making is that Brexit is clearly not done. Therefore further work is needed. A closer relationship would lessen the problems, but also upset many leavers. What I am saying is that both of the main two parties will have voters that support both sides of the Brexit debate. Therefore the decisions that either party make on Brexit will please some of their supporters, but alienate others,
Comments
Suspect Gove won't be there
Difficult to make peace, after calling him a snake.
Raab is apparently favourite.
Every election in living memory, the Right Wing Press have had just 2 verdicts about Labour (with the exception of 1 Blair election). Either:-
1. The Labour Leader is a dangerous loony (for example Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, etc); or
2. If you vote for that normal-looking Labour leader, there is going to be some form of Stalinist Putsch, whereby the secret Red nobody voted for will come to power
Times the Labour leadership has changed during a period in power? 2. That would be the open secret of Blair-Brown, and Wilson stepping down for Callaghan when diagnosed with dementia.
Whereas, for the 3rd General Election in a row, the Conservatives have got people to vote for 1 person and, within 3 years, replaced them-without an election.
That is Cameron- in 2015 election (gone 2016);
May- 2017 election, (gone 2019)
Johnson- 2019 election (gone 2022)
If Governments choose to replace a leader, then they should ordinarily choose to have a General Election
Why do you think Keir Starmer doesnt seem to be cutting through with the public?
Do you think he has made the correct decision regarding Brexit?
Really? The former tax avoiding £Billionaire, whose policy differences with Boris centred on his unwillingness to help poor people with fuel bills?
That would be a brave call.
1. It wouldn't be a snap election. Going to take c.3 months to get a new leader in place-meanwhile (of course) we will have a rudderless ship
2. No idea. He lacks charisma-when was the last time a FTSE-100 CEO was passed over due to lack of charisma? He is everything Boris isn't-but that can be perceived as a bad thing
3. Never an easy call. For me, no. I believe the best course for Labour would be to propose staying out of the EU, but seeking to agree terms upon which we could all join the Single Market (not just NI). Would need careful planning
You can't leave the country in limbo for months with everything that's going at the moment.
3. Michael Hesseltine has just been on suggesting that his recent speeches on Brexit were designed specifically for a fight with Boris, and that he might have had a different view in the light of the Boris resignation.
When Boris said he would "get Brexit done", he meant it.
He wasn't going to seek consensus, like May. He wasn't going to stand for people in his Party not obeying him as PM (I often wonder how long it would have taken Boris PM to throw Boris MP out of the Party). He was just going to steamroller Brexit through. And worry about the aftermath later.
And people voted for exactly that. So Brexit has been done. With little or no plan as to what comes next.
Boris has a certain populist charm. Starmer will never be a populist. But that does not mean he will not win the next election.
There are claims that there is now a majority in favour of remaining, and if the referendum was rerun today there would be a different result.
I can believe that this is the case, due to the problems that are associated with Brexit.
However lets say it is still a 50/50 issue.
Therefore including a pro Brexit message in a manifesto risks alienating 50% of the electorate.
Although if it was a Labour manifesto, it may attract Tory remainers, but also drive Labour leavers away.
The same would apply to an anti Brexit view.
Brexit will undoubtedly complicate matters.
Interestingly a YouGov poll this morning on the Tory leadership, made Ben Wallace, a remainer, the clear winner amongst Tory members with 48% in favour of him, with 29% in favour of Liz Truss in second.
Rightly or wrongly, we have left. If we want to rejoin, it is not just a question of us rocking up and taking our seats.
We would have to apply to rejoin. Get accepted by the people we so publicly rejected. And abide by the conditions they would impose for re-entry. Which could well include not only the European Court, but Schengen and joining the Euro.
People voted to leave on empty promises. Rejoiners are doing exactly the same thing-voting for a deal before knowing what it is.
Another cabinet re-shuffle.
Chaos...
The point I am making is that Brexit is clearly not done.
Therefore further work is needed.
A closer relationship would lessen the problems, but also upset many leavers.
What I am saying is that both of the main two parties will have voters that support both sides of the Brexit debate.
Therefore the decisions that either party make on Brexit will please some of their supporters, but alienate others,