There have been many atrocities committed by both sides. Ant the recent one by Hamas has been 1 of the very worst.
But the reporting is not balanced. We just have a "good guy, bad guy" mentality. As he rightly says, when has any Israeli, or any Jewish religious leader, been asked to condemn acts carried out by Israel?
We report on Hamas as a "terrorist" organisation. And, IMHO, it is an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism, of which recent events have been particularly appalling.
But they are not just a terrorist organisation. They are the democratically elected Government of Gaza. Democracy is not restricted to Governments I like.
Meanwhile, the rhetoric goes on. Senseless killing on 1 side is portrayed as evil and barbaric. And on the other side a necessary act to protect borders. Whereas, to my mind, it is just not that simple.
Two wrongs.
No two wrongs don't make a right, but you can't call one side Jewish Settlers and the other side Palestinian Terrorists.
How about Jewish Occupiers and Palestinian Freedom Fighters or Jewish Oppressors Palestinian Subjugates.
Hmm, that doesn't quite set the right level of Hatred from the West does it.
What happened was abhorrent barbarity, that is undeniable, inexcusable and indefensible.
It's just a shame that the slaughter of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli Military in the same manner, over decades, seems somewhat un-newsworthy.
I will stick with the two wrongs. The attack last Saturday was evil, and committed by terrorists. Taking hostages was wrong. The Israeli retaliation is also wrong, and they have killed more innocent Palestinians. Cutting off food, water, and electricity, is apparently a war crime. There is likely to be more suffering, and casualties on the Palestinian side. While the terrorists continue to fire their rockets.
I would agree with your earlier comment about the press coverage being unbalanced. One of the articles that I posted earlier quotes the UN, saying that so far this year there have been 758 attacks on Palestinians, by Israeli settlers. That seems an awful lot, and no press coverage.
However nothing can excuse the evil attack on Saturday. The military wing of Hamas are terrorists. One of their goals is to kill as many Jews as they can.
Wow, I never expected Collymore to have the contextual understanding to eloquently discuss this, but absolutely spot on Stan.
He has obviously given it a lot of thought. However his fundamental point is that for a two state solution to be made possible, there will have to be some "give and take" on both sides. This is surely the "give and take" that has been sadly missing for the last 75 years, or perhaps longer. I think that any change in my lifetime is unlikely. Just more of the same for the foreseeable.
Palestinian death toll is now up to at least 1900. This figure includes 70, mostly women and children, killed in convoys, by airstrikes, while fleeing Gaza. So they were just doing what Israel ordered them to do. Another 11 were shot dead in the West Bank, 2 of them, when Israeli settlers attacked a funeral. Hamas have told them to stay where they are. The UN have said that any attempt to evacuate 1.1 million people in 24 hours, will end in disaster. Israel are saying go south if you want to live. Hamas are claiming that 13 of the hostages have been killed by Israeli air strikes. It can only end very badly.
I suspect Israeli military will blanket bomb everything in their path - shrugging their shoulders at the killing of hostages and fleeing civilians- pointing a finger at Hamas as justification.
Why does the British government always want to be the first to jump in and give their support ?, In the weeks / months to come we will see the suicide bombers and knife wielding terrorist nutters on the streets of this country.
Why does the British government always want to be the first to jump in and give their support ?, In the weeks / months to come we will see the suicide bombers and knife wielding terrorist nutters on the streets of this country.
So a few things to point out 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the forum would likely rush to say that Jewish is not a race or ethnicity and therefore you cannot be anti semetic. Yet saying anything negative against Islam is racist and Islam does count as a race.
Well I am already getting hostility as I go out and about so far it is dirty looks the guy who pushed in front of me at the all you can eat buffet and gave me a right dirty look like he was ready to go and a few people yelling obscenities at me. one time when all this kicked off I had a horde (somewhere between 15 and 20 is that a horde or lots?) of individuals outside my window yelling death threats and calling me down for a one and one fight. This is a situation I have seen a few times what it really means is one on one if I am losing but if I start to win there 15 mates jump in, this was not a crowd that would leave me with a **** nose and a black eye this was a crowd that would likely beat me to death or leave me disabled for life. I was not stupid I bolted my door shut and called the police. The University I was living at on student accommodation at the time recognised as one of the least anti sematic universities in the country (you have to be joking) Birmingham university. were absolutely furious, to say that they were incandscent with rage would be a huge huge understatement. how dare I call the police when I call the police and say death threats they have to take this seriously! they were clear I was not exactly welcome because of my race even though I never believed in the religion they were also clear that Jews are not a race. in fairness this was nearly two decades ago.
I have been in a situation when 13 when I had no choice but to fight for my life, and I mean literally a fight for my life no hyperbolic. there was a 6 foot 4 student who was an outspoken admirer of Adolf Hitler he was one belt of a black belt in karate and I had to my name two Taekwondo lessons and was 5 foot 1 at the time. I came to where I usually spent my lunch break to be pushed into a ring to fight this guy. he was not a guy who would have left me with a broken nose and a black eye he was ready to go for the kill I was pushed into the ring and it was a situation where there was no walking out i would have just been pushed back in. If there was a bookie taking bets on this fight I am pretty sure I would have been down as 100/1 or even longer. Some people claim that you never die your consciousness just shifts to a reality where you live when your body in this reality would die. I find that ridiculous but then its probably about as likely to be true as me winning that fight was. I did win that fight and to this day that still surprises me. if I had not though I would not be around to mention it here.
The schools stance at the time they are a Christian school so will take his side I was in big trouble oh and you cant be racist against jews because Jews are not a race. I have heard that line multiple times.
to be clear no one should be attacked because of what a country people rightly or wrongly believe to somehow be linked to them allegedly behave. I do not think muslims or arabs over here should have to answer for how Hamas isalmic state or Al Queeda behave. I do not think Russian people living over here should have to answer for how Putin behaves. I do not believe I should have to answer for how Israel behaves.
But of course its one group that always get attacks when this stuff goes down and that is not me just been hyperbolic. I have experienced it on multiple times.
my family have advised me to stay in unless essential to go out and this appears good advice I really should make plans to get out of this country though, its just staying on borrowed time the longer I remain.
PS I do have quite a few things I could say about this conflict, I have been advised not to by family and Jews in the community on grounds of my safety. I would like to think that my ethnicity and or differing opinions on a conflict would not result in me been shanked at an SPT or near the proximality of one. I do not have reason as of yet to believe that the sky community are anymore anti sematic then the general population. However if I assume for the sake of argument that the Sky community are a completely non biased representation of the UK population at large, (in normal non statistics speak this means to assume that the Sky community has the same proportion of anti semites as the population at large not more not less) then I would be well advised to take great concern for my safety and be alert on leaving and coming to the casino.
I do not think muslims or arabs over here should have to answer for how Hamas isalmic state or Al Queeda behave. I do not think Russian people living over here should have to answer for how Putin behaves. I do not believe I should have to answer for how Israel behaves.
BUT the minute Arabs over here take to the streets to protest they make themselves part of how the extremists behave because that shows support for Hamas/ISIS/Al Queeda et al.
It is also why counter protests by the Jewish communities in support of Israel will make them a target for anything that the Israeli state does.
Now if the "ordinary" Muslims protested against Hamas and the rest and all the exiled Jews ripped into Israel for its actions then maybe that would give a common ground from which to build.
I do not think muslims or arabs over here should have to answer for how Hamas isalmic state or Al Queeda behave. I do not think Russian people living over here should have to answer for how Putin behaves. I do not believe I should have to answer for how Israel behaves.
BUT the minute Arabs over here take to the streets to protest they make themselves part of how the extremists behave because that shows support for Hamas/ISIS/Al Queeda et al.
It is also why counter protests by the Jewish communities in support of Israel will make them a target for anything that the Israeli state does.
Now if the "ordinary" Muslims protested against Hamas and the rest and all the exiled Jews ripped into Israel for its actions then maybe that would give a common ground from which to build.
Yeah, like that's ever going to happen.
I agree with some of that. And disagree with part as well. Which is why it is lovely to live in a country where we are free to do so.
I totally agree that people of any race or nation should not be held accountable merely for belonging to that nation or religion.
I disagree on peaceful protest. I believe that both sides should be able to peacefully protest in the UK. Although I agree that it is a shame that there are never more conciliatory protests by either side.
I fervently hope that there is not an increase in either Anti-Semitism or Islamophobia as a result. I am saddened by the fact that the Press seem only able to concentrate on 1. Because both are more likely as a result. And both are equally wrong.
very very sad but its went on for a couple o thousand years now and am sorry but its not going to stop anytime soon as they dont want peace just to wipe each other out been that way for a long long time just horrible acts off terror , horrendous and all done for what kill kids or woman , take hostages , get people slaughtered ,all so wrong and religion used as always for acts off terror off innocents on both sides
that convoy thing sad i am surprized that after an air strike theres as much off the lorry left as there is ..... buildings fall down in air strikes ... lorry should be in small pieces ... and you can still see it clearly in pictures ... a hope it was not a booby trap device ....... but we will never no .. just sad ... they all need to stop shooting every shot is a crime ..... a could say a lot more kids covered in rubble kids beheaded in there homes protests all round the world..... but here you get people supporting the actions instead off telling them its wrong both sides need to tell them ...... hamas flags and hang glider tops ... acts off terror being glorified in this country is not on ... jail required for people who do .....especially if you dont want public opinion to turn against you ........ they flags n tops are already feeding the far right ..
Comments
The attack last Saturday was evil, and committed by terrorists.
Taking hostages was wrong.
The Israeli retaliation is also wrong, and they have killed more innocent Palestinians.
Cutting off food, water, and electricity, is apparently a war crime.
There is likely to be more suffering, and casualties on the Palestinian side.
While the terrorists continue to fire their rockets.
I would agree with your earlier comment about the press coverage being unbalanced.
One of the articles that I posted earlier quotes the UN, saying that so far this year there have been 758 attacks on Palestinians, by Israeli settlers.
That seems an awful lot, and no press coverage.
However nothing can excuse the evil attack on Saturday.
The military wing of Hamas are terrorists.
One of their goals is to kill as many Jews as they can.
However his fundamental point is that for a two state solution to be made possible, there will have to be some "give and take" on both sides.
This is surely the "give and take" that has been sadly missing for the last 75 years, or perhaps longer.
I think that any change in my lifetime is unlikely.
Just more of the same for the foreseeable.
This figure includes 70, mostly women and children, killed in convoys, by airstrikes, while fleeing Gaza.
So they were just doing what Israel ordered them to do.
Another 11 were shot dead in the West Bank, 2 of them, when Israeli settlers attacked a funeral.
Hamas have told them to stay where they are.
The UN have said that any attempt to evacuate 1.1 million people in 24 hours, will end in disaster.
Israel are saying go south if you want to live.
Hamas are claiming that 13 of the hostages have been killed by Israeli air strikes.
It can only end very badly.
Well I am already getting hostility as I go out and about so far it is dirty looks the guy who pushed in front of me at the all you can eat buffet and gave me a right dirty look like he was ready to go and a few people yelling obscenities at me. one time when all this kicked off I had a horde (somewhere between 15 and 20 is that a horde or lots?) of individuals outside my window yelling death threats and calling me down for a one and one fight.
This is a situation I have seen a few times what it really means is one on one if I am losing but if I start to win there 15 mates jump in, this was not a crowd that would leave me with a **** nose and a black eye this was a crowd that would likely beat me to death or leave me disabled for life. I was not stupid I bolted my door shut and called the police. The University I was living at on student accommodation at the time recognised as one of the least anti sematic universities in the country (you have to be joking) Birmingham university. were absolutely furious, to say that they were incandscent with rage would be a huge huge understatement.
how dare I call the police when I call the police and say death threats they have to take this seriously! they were clear I was not exactly welcome because of my race even though I never believed in the religion they were also clear that Jews are not a race.
in fairness this was nearly two decades ago.
I have been in a situation when 13 when I had no choice but to fight for my life, and I mean literally a fight for my life no hyperbolic. there was a 6 foot 4 student who was an outspoken admirer of Adolf Hitler he was one belt of a black belt in karate and I had to my name two Taekwondo lessons and was 5 foot 1 at the time. I came to where I usually spent my lunch break to be pushed into a ring to fight this guy. he was not a guy who would have left me with a broken nose and a black eye he was ready to go for the kill I was pushed into the ring and it was a situation where there was no walking out i would have just been pushed back in. If there was a bookie taking bets on this fight I am pretty sure I would have been down as 100/1 or even longer.
Some people claim that you never die your consciousness just shifts to a reality where you live when your body in this reality would die. I find that ridiculous but then its probably about as likely to be true as me winning that fight was. I did win that fight and to this day that still surprises me. if I had not though I would not be around to mention it here.
The schools stance at the time they are a Christian school so will take his side I was in big trouble oh and you cant be racist against jews because Jews are not a race. I have heard that line multiple times.
to be clear no one should be attacked because of what a country people rightly or wrongly believe to somehow be linked to them allegedly behave.
I do not think muslims or arabs over here should have to answer for how Hamas isalmic state or Al Queeda behave.
I do not think Russian people living over here should have to answer for how Putin behaves.
I do not believe I should have to answer for how Israel behaves.
But of course its one group that always get attacks when this stuff goes down and that is not me just been hyperbolic. I have experienced it on multiple times.
my family have advised me to stay in unless essential to go out and this appears good advice I really should make plans to get out of this country though, its just staying on borrowed time the longer I remain.
PS I do have quite a few things I could say about this conflict, I have been advised not to by family and Jews in the community on grounds of my safety. I would like to think that my ethnicity and or differing opinions on a conflict would not result in me been shanked at an SPT or near the proximality of one. I do not have reason as of yet to believe that the sky community are anymore anti sematic then the general population. However if I assume for the sake of argument that the Sky community are a completely non biased representation of the UK population at large, (in normal non statistics speak this means to assume that the Sky community has the same proportion of anti semites as the population at large not more not less) then I would be well advised to take great concern for my safety and be alert on leaving and coming to the casino.
I do not think Russian people living over here should have to answer for how Putin behaves.
I do not believe I should have to answer for how Israel behaves.
@Doubleme
Absolutely agree with those lines.
BUT the minute Arabs over here take to the streets to protest they make themselves part of how the extremists behave because that shows support for Hamas/ISIS/Al Queeda et al.
It is also why counter protests by the Jewish communities in support of Israel will make them a target for anything that the Israeli state does.
Now if the "ordinary" Muslims protested against Hamas and the rest and all the exiled Jews ripped into Israel for its actions then maybe that would give a common ground from which to build.
Yeah, like that's ever going to happen.
I totally agree that people of any race or nation should not be held accountable merely for belonging to that nation or religion.
I disagree on peaceful protest. I believe that both sides should be able to peacefully protest in the UK. Although I agree that it is a shame that there are never more conciliatory protests by either side.
I fervently hope that there is not an increase in either Anti-Semitism or Islamophobia as a result. I am saddened by the fact that the Press seem only able to concentrate on 1. Because both are more likely as a result. And both are equally wrong.