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Supreme Court rules the Government's Rwanda policy is UNLAWFUL

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364

    Is that legal migration, illegal migration or economic migration ?

    Once again a banner headline without substance.

    It's like claiming that it's safer to drink drive as 80% of all accidents involve drivers who haven't been drinking.

    Apparently net migration.

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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    Also rather depends on how you calculate "net" Migration.

    In the last 14 years, net migration has been at record levels. Suppose, just for a second, that half of the people who have been coming in with their families on Study Visas actually leave. And half don't.

    We have now changed the Rules so that the vast majority of people coming in on Study Visas can no longer bring families in. That should have a major effect on Net Migration. But only for about 3 years.
    HAYSIE said:

    Is that legal migration, illegal migration or economic migration ?


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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    Also rather depends on how you calculate "net" Migration.

    In the last 14 years, net migration has been at record levels. Suppose, just for a second, that half of the people who have been coming in with their families on Study Visas actually leave. And half don't.

    We have now changed the Rules so that the vast majority of people coming in on Study Visas can no longer bring families in. That should have a major effect on Net Migration. But only for about 3 years.

    HAYSIE said:

    Is that legal migration, illegal migration or economic migration ?


    I am not convinced by anything they do regarding immigration.
    Lets say you come in on a Study Visa.
    You study for say three years.
    Yo decide to stay.
    Is there anything to stop the rest of your family coming over for a holday, and not leaving?
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited May 17
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    edited May 20
    You just lap up whatever politician supports your contention that Brexit is the root cause of everything.

    This has very little to do with Brexit. Good or bad. But you believe it every single time Sinn Fein or the SDLP pretend it is. Because they want a United Ireland. And have no intention of allowing any facts to get in the way of that.

    This goes back rather further than Brexit. Rather further than the Good Friday Agreement. And indeed rather further than the EU itself.

    There have been laws for a long time allowing freedom of movement between the different component parts of the British Isles. Including Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    The Ruling makes it clear that, once an asylum seeker has made it to Northern Ireland they cannot be forcibly transported to Rwanda. Because that impinges on his freedom to travel from Northern Ireland to Ireland. Contravening the rules of the CTA and the GFA.

    Exactly the same is likely to be true if Ireland tried to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with Brexit.

    And everything to do with Politicians either not understanding that all countries do not have the same control in relation to Emigration (forcible or otherwise) than they do on Immigration. Or pretending they do not.

    The "fun" bit is this. If this means that an Asylum seeker gets to Northern Ireland. And then has an unfettered right to go to Ireland. Logically, until the EU change their rules, the asylum seeker appears to have a similar right to travel throughout the EU.

    That will be stopped. And people will claim it breaches the GFA.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    You just lap up whatever politician supports your contention that Brexit is the root cause of everything.

    This has very little to do with Brexit. Good or bad. But you believe it every single time Sinn Fein or the SDLP pretend it is. Because they want a United Ireland. And have no intention of allowing any facts to get in the way of that.

    This goes back rather further than Brexit. Rather further than the Good Friday Agreement. And indeed rather further than the EU itself.

    There have been laws for a long time allowing freedom of movement between the different component parts of the British Isles. Including Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    The Ruling makes it clear that, once an asylum seeker has made it to Northern Ireland th thought this had a relevance ey cannot be forcibly transported to Rwanda. Because that impinges on his freedom to travel from Northern Ireland to Ireland. Contravening the rules of the CTA and the GFA.

    Exactly the same is likely to be true if Ireland tried to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with Brexit.

    And everything to do with Politicians either not understanding that all countries do not have the same control in relation to Emigration (forcible or otherwise) than they do on Immigration. Or pretending they do not.

    The "fun" bit is this. If this means that an Asylum seeker gets to Northern Ireland. And then has an unfettered right to go to Ireland. Logically, until the EU change their rules, the asylum seeker appears to have a similar right to travel throughout the EU.

    That will be stopped. And people will claim it breaches the GFA.

    Firstly I dont agree with every article I post.
    I post many articles that I dont agree with, because I think they may generate some debate.
    Also, if I though this was relevant to Brexit, I would have posted it on the Brexit thread.
    I havent actually read it yet.
    If I have anything to say about the article, I will do so subsequent to reading it.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited May 20
    Essexphil said:

    You just lap up whatever politician supports your contention that Brexit is the root cause of everything.

    I certainly dont believe that Brexit is the root cause of everything.
    That would be foolish.
    Although I do believe Brexit is responsible for a number of issues affecting the relationship between Ireland/NI/GB.
    I dont believe that anyone mentioned anything to do with any sort of Irish border in the whole of the Brexit debate.


    This has very little to do with Brexit. Good or bad. But you believe it every single time Sinn Fein or the SDLP pretend it is. Because they want a United Ireland. And have no intention of allowing any facts to get in the way of that.

    I dont.
    Although I could see that one of the possible solutions to this problem may further alienate Unionists in NI.


    This goes back rather further than Brexit. Rather further than the Good Friday Agreement. And indeed rather further than the EU itself.

    This particular problem doesnt.
    A recent court ruling in Northern Ireland has thrown UK immigration policy into chaos,


    There have been laws for a long time allowing freedom of movement between the different component parts of the British Isles. Including Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    This relates to the movement of illegal immigrants.

    The Ruling makes it clear that, once an asylum seeker has made it to Northern Ireland they cannot be forcibly transported to Rwanda. Because that impinges on his freedom to travel from Northern Ireland to Ireland. Contravening the rules of the CTA and the GFA.

    Throwing the UK immigration policy into chaos.

    Exactly the same is likely to be true if Ireland tried to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with Brexit.

    Except that prior to Brexit there was no border between the UK, and Ireland.

    And everything to do with Politicians either not understanding that all countries do not have the same control in relation to Emigration (forcible or otherwise) than they do on Immigration. Or pretending they do not.

    Brexit was responsible for the UK imposing an internal border.
    If emigration contols were also imposed, the Unionists will be up in arms.


    The "fun" bit is this. If this means that an Asylum seeker gets to Northern Ireland. And then has an unfettered right to go to Ireland. Logically, until the EU change their rules, the asylum seeker appears to have a similar right to travel throughout the EU.

    I can see the EU being keen to stop this.
    It is difficult to see how they would do this without a border on the island of Ireland.
    If they cant be deported from NI, then this screws the Rwanda policy.
    The boats wont stop the asylum seekers will just head for NI, on arrival.


    That will be stopped. And people will claim it breaches the GFA.

    A border on the island of Ireland does

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited May 20
    Essexphil said:

    You just lap up whatever politician supports your contention that Brexit is the root cause of everything.

    This has very little to do with Brexit. Good or bad. But you believe it every single time Sinn Fein or the SDLP pretend it is. Because they want a United Ireland. And have no intention of allowing any facts to get in the way of that.

    This goes back rather further than Brexit. Rather further than the Good Friday Agreement. And indeed rather further than the EU itself.

    There have been laws for a long time allowing freedom of movement between the different component parts of the British Isles. Including Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

    The Ruling makes it clear that, once an asylum seeker has made it to Northern Ireland they cannot be forcibly transported to Rwanda. Because that impinges on his freedom to travel from Northern Ireland to Ireland. Contravening the rules of the CTA and the GFA.

    Exactly the same is likely to be true if Ireland tried to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with Brexit.

    And everything to do with Politicians either not understanding that all countries do not have the same control in relation to Emigration (forcible or otherwise) than they do on Immigration. Or pretending they do not.

    The "fun" bit is this. If this means that an Asylum seeker gets to Northern Ireland. And then has an unfettered right to go to Ireland. Logically, until the EU change their rules, the asylum seeker appears to have a similar right to travel throughout the EU.

    That will be stopped. And people will claim it breaches the GFA.

    Assuming they lose the appeal, and that no border can be imposed on the island of Ireland, because of the GFA, then what do you think the solution might be, if wasnt wasnt passport checks, including British people, on entry into NI.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    The solution?

    People will lie.

    Same as usual ;)
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    The solution?

    People will lie.

    Same as usual ;)

    I am sure you knew what I meant.
    Assuming the government fail in their appeal.
    And asylum seekers can escape deportation to Rwanda by fleeing to NI.
    Rwanda would no longer be the deterrent that it might be.
    Do you think that they may opt for checking passports on the Irish Sea border?
    Which just happens to be the product of Brexit.
    Or do you think that might be a step too far?
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,458
    Sorry but I feel no sympathy when I read stories like this

    It's no more terrifying than fleeing Sudan, Eritrea and Afghanistan then crossing through several countries, maybe somebody could work out exactly how many as I really can't be 4rsed, then a perilous journey to the UK.

    What terrifies them is the thought that the easyish life could be over.

    Of course she wants to escape, they all do. Then they can disappear, switch locations and try to stay under the radar.

    Oh and one final note, how many of those protesters in that photograph would allow refugees to live with them. I'm guessing not many.

    At the end of the day refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants whatever term you wish to attach to them come about 11th on my list of top ten things to worry about.

    Maybe after the election and we know what direction we as a Nation are headed it will become relevant. Right now meh!
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