Ok a question for you. Do you believe your girlfriend loves you ?
If so why? Love cannot be seen, or touched. By your own example above love cannot exist, because all we are ever aware of is the manifestation of an emotion via signs and gestures.
As much as we would wish otherwise believing that somebody loves us is an act of faith so tell me is love a positive thing.
So firstly I have strong evidence that my girlfriend exists I do not have that for your god nor do you.
as for whether my girlfriend loves me, I have many good reasons to believe that. how my girlfriend treats me how her behaviour suggests that emotional expressions and the fact that my girlfriend says she loves me.
is it conceivably possible that my girlfriend could be decieving me? well yes but thats a bit far fetched but no one can say for absolute certainty that their loved one is not decieving them.
In fact when you break it down you cannot be absolutely certain of anything. However there are many things we have very good reason to believe and I have very good reason to believe my girlfriend loves me.
You do not have good reason to believe in your imaginery friend.
I didn't ask if your girlfriend exists, but as you brought it up lets examine that for a moment.
I have never seen your girlfriend in fact as far as I know nobody on here has ever seen her so why should anybody believe she even exists. Sound familiar. Ooh that's you except you're talking about God.
Now back to the question in hand.
I asked if you believe she loves you.
If you do that is an example of faith.
The evidence you base that faith on is simply a manifestation of an emotion. You believe because of a series of events, words, acts and gestures.
It doesn't mean love is real, just that you have faith, and believe, in it.
The basis of my faith, in fact all faith, is exactly the same, whether that be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism, etc. etc. People believe that there have been certain manifestations from whoever they choose to call God or Gods.
These may be physical, spiritual, emotional. Choosing to believe something without absolute proof is the very core of faith.
So I believe in something that can't yet be proven, I also believe in something that can't be disproven.
If it's all a load of cr4p then why are people so afraid, if it's just another conspiracy theory then why give it so much attention, just file it under baloney along with crop circles, flat earth and alien abduction and move along.
Ok a question for you. Do you believe your girlfriend loves you ?
If so why? Love cannot be seen, or touched. By your own example above love cannot exist, because all we are ever aware of is the manifestation of an emotion via signs and gestures.
As much as we would wish otherwise believing that somebody loves us is an act of faith so tell me is love a positive thing.
So firstly I have strong evidence that my girlfriend exists I do not have that for your god nor do you.
as for whether my girlfriend loves me, I have many good reasons to believe that. how my girlfriend treats me how her behaviour suggests that emotional expressions and the fact that my girlfriend says she loves me.
is it conceivably possible that my girlfriend could be decieving me? well yes but thats a bit far fetched but no one can say for absolute certainty that their loved one is not decieving them.
In fact when you break it down you cannot be absolutely certain of anything. However there are many things we have very good reason to believe and I have very good reason to believe my girlfriend loves me.
You do not have good reason to believe in your imaginery friend.
I didn't ask if your girlfriend exists, but as you brought it up lets examine that for a moment.
I have never seen your girlfriend in fact as far as I know nobody on here has ever seen her so why should anybody believe she even exists. Sound familiar. Ooh that's you except you're talking about God.
Now back to the question in hand.
I asked if you believe she loves you.
If you do that is an example of faith.
The evidence you base that faith on is simply a manifestation of an emotion. You believe because of a series of events, words, acts and gestures.
It doesn't mean love is real, just that you have faith, and believe, in it.
The basis of my faith, in fact all faith, is exactly the same, whether that be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism, etc. etc. People believe that there have been certain manifestations from whoever they choose to call God or Gods.
These may be physical, spiritual, emotional. Choosing to believe something without absolute proof is the very core of faith.
So I believe in something that can't yet be proven, I also believe in something that can't be disproven.
If it's all a load of cr4p then why are people so afraid, if it's just another conspiracy theory then why give it so much attention, just file it under baloney along with crop circles, flat earth and alien abduction and move along.
well firstly both @MISTY4ME and @Tikay10 have met me and my girlfriend. so your wrong there, there is even a pic somewhere of us at an spt on the forums.
There is something we identify as love which we can see the signs of we do not have that for any deity these are not the same things. In fact there are actually patterns in the brain which have been studied and identified as love,
Ok a question for you. Do you believe your girlfriend loves you ?
If so why? Love cannot be seen, or touched. By your own example above love cannot exist, because all we are ever aware of is the manifestation of an emotion via signs and gestures.
As much as we would wish otherwise believing that somebody loves us is an act of faith so tell me is love a positive thing.
So firstly I have strong evidence that my girlfriend exists I do not have that for your god nor do you.
as for whether my girlfriend loves me, I have many good reasons to believe that. how my girlfriend treats me how her behaviour suggests that emotional expressions and the fact that my girlfriend says she loves me.
is it conceivably possible that my girlfriend could be decieving me? well yes but thats a bit far fetched but no one can say for absolute certainty that their loved one is not decieving them.
In fact when you break it down you cannot be absolutely certain of anything. However there are many things we have very good reason to believe and I have very good reason to believe my girlfriend loves me.
You do not have good reason to believe in your imaginery friend.
I didn't ask if your girlfriend exists, but as you brought it up lets examine that for a moment.
I have never seen your girlfriend in fact as far as I know nobody on here has ever seen her so why should anybody believe she even exists. Sound familiar. Ooh that's you except you're talking about God.
Now back to the question in hand.
I asked if you believe she loves you.
If you do that is an example of faith.
The evidence you base that faith on is simply a manifestation of an emotion. You believe because of a series of events, words, acts and gestures.
It doesn't mean love is real, just that you have faith, and believe, in it.
The basis of my faith, in fact all faith, is exactly the same, whether that be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism, etc. etc. People believe that there have been certain manifestations from whoever they choose to call God or Gods.
These may be physical, spiritual, emotional. Choosing to believe something without absolute proof is the very core of faith.
So I believe in something that can't yet be proven, I also believe in something that can't be disproven.
If it's all a load of cr4p then why are people so afraid, if it's just another conspiracy theory then why give it so much attention, just file it under baloney along with crop circles, flat earth and alien abduction and move along.
So firstly your wrong both @MISTY4ME and @Tikay10 have met me and my girlfriend there is even a picture somewhere of me and my girlfriend on the forums.
Now I have evidence that my girlfriend exists as I see her every day and I have evidence that she loves me with how she behaves.
Now your doing exactly what i said I dislike about religion and religious people doing. saying "believing anything without absolute proof is faith"
So is it faith that I believe the earth is not flat? It could hypothetically be the case that any observations I take are manipulated that everything I read is manipulated and really we live on a flat earth
is it faith that I believe there is a country called England It could be that I have been lied to my whole live and infact I live on a film set like Vanilla sky when i get in a plane the windows arent looking out to anything that is real but merely computer generated images been displayed so authentic looking to look like they are real
is it faith that I believe humans exist? It could hypothetically be the case that humans never existed and in fact I am a warrior member of an entirely different species, that are at war with yet a different species again and I have been captured and strapped to some advanced machine that is altering my perception of reality, to decieve me into thinking I am a human amongst the human specieis for whatever malevant purposes that would be done.
is it faith that I believe I am not just a brain in a vat being decieved by impulses? electircal impulses to the brain could simulate an entire reality and I could just be a brain in a vat
is it faith that I believe I am profitible at poker? It could be that really I have been losing money and unknown to me I am actually a millionaire who has been drugged to think they are profitible, when really they are losing money hand over fist the sharkscope and withdrawls all figments of my imagination induced by the girl who I think is my girlfriend working for a crime syndicate using a combination of drugs and hypnosis.
is it faith that 2+2 is 4? what if demons really exist and a demon is altering my thoughts so that every time I add 2 and 2 I get four when really the answer is 5? it may seem to make mathematical sense but really I am just been edited to believe that.
See because I will got there before you you do. In a court of law they say to proof guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. A court does not say to proof guilty beyond all doubt because if that were the case no one could ever be convicted. So to show how ridiciolous this gets lets entertain two hypothetical murder cases.
CASE A In this case the Suspect threatened the victim that they would murder them, They wrote on social media saying they were going to kill the victim and the whole world will see. They were caught on camera stabbing the victim multiple times, their dna is all over the scene there are multiple witnesses and police apprehended the suspect because he was still stabbing the dead corpse repeatidly when they arrived there multiple witnesses all testifying.
Do we have proof beyond all reasonable dount? yes. do we have proof beyond all doubt? nope see it could be that extra terristial aliens hacked his social media accounts. they also sent nanobots to hack the cameras and anything they feed media to, to edit the footage. the witnesses had their brains altered and never actually saw anything but they believed fully what they saw. The aliens altered the DNA evidence and actually used a robot which was identical to the suspect and then switched the suspect in as they slowed down time so that the police apprehended the innocent suspect.
So we have proof beyond all reasonable doubt that the suspect is guilty. However we definitely do not have proof beyond all doubt. So if the jury find the suspect guilty are they just finding him guilty as a matter of faith? would you feel justice has been done if someone is found guilty as a matter of faith?
CASE B lets go with another scenario then lets say there are no wittnesses no DNA evidence no social media posts the suspect lived a distance that would be a several hour drive from where the alleged victim was last seen. the victim has just gone missing no one knows for sure where they are or if they are still alive. However the suspect just looks a bit rough and the jury have bad vibes so just have a feeling that the suspect killed the victim. They find the suspect guilty just as a matter of faith.
I mean we don't have absolute proof in either case so are the convictions in both cases just a matter of faith?
its absolutely ridicolous to equate things we have lots of evidence for to be just as valid as something that we not only have no evidence for but even lots of evidence against.
If you want to throw your toys out the pram and say we cant know anything for absolute certainty and then try to assert therefore everything is a matter of faith then whatever but that is fundementally intellectually dishonest.
So because you say so, and because a couple of people can attest to having met her your girlfriend exists does she. Seems a bit hearsay really as I've never seen her. So I have to have faith that she exists based on that. No real proof.
Many thousands of people met/ saw/ heard Christ. Is that also hearsay, because I kinda didn't meet him either. So here as with your good lady I have to have faith based on that. No real proof. Ahh but there is. Back to that in a moment.
Firstly your cases don't really help your point.
CASE A We find guilt based on the evidence, evidence that is tangible, evidence that is physical and evidence of our own eyes and ears. NO faith aspect here because we have proof.
CASE B Without any evidence whatsoever we would not be judging the accused because without evidence the case would not even see the inside of a courtroom. NO faith aspect here because it's not required.
No back to the good bit.
There is plenty of evidence for the existence of God, historical, textural, creational. Faith therefore is based on evidence which exists but is open to debate and interpretation.
Jesus Christ was real, he is there in history, mentioned in several works by prominent people of the time, including Julius Caesar. The textural criticism of the writings is pretty much accepted a true indication that Jesus was very real.
Why is this such an important thing when talking about God. Because Jesus always refused to accept credit for his works, his words or his actions, insisting that the credit lay with a higher authority. God.
Now I'll not bore you with the Jesus was God made man and also Holy Spirit. It is fascinating but many Christians struggle with the concept of The Trilogy, the Three in One Godhead, it's not something that is explainable by the use of memes and winnis.
I'll leave you with this.
I honestly don't give a hoot whether you or anybody else thinks it's possible to have a relationship with God, I have one and that's good enough for me. I am also ambivalent as to whether anybody believes in God or in Jesus. Does that mean I don't care. No. Of course I care, I am sad when people reject God, but I'm not on a mission to save anybody and it has absolutely no impact on me either way, I'm confident in his promise and again that's good enough for me.
I am not running a recruitment campaign, that's not what I'm about. Yes I often mention my faith because that has got me through some really awful times. It's a part of who I am and that's why when I think that there's a pile on coming it's way, I revert to type, stand my ground and fire back.
If God exists, great. Faith rewarded and all is well. If it turns out he doesn't, great. I'll just be dead and will never know that I was wrong.
There's no doubt Jesus was a real man but, everything considered, it is far more likely he was a man with a lot of charisma or strong rhetoric or potentially psychosis or schizophrenia.
Whatever he did occurred in an age of poor communication, and knowing humans, a lot of wandering hyperbole. That led to dramatisation and various fables and tales leading someone to compend the Bible.
Now, that makes sense. Or you could believe the Bible is all true and real based on absolutely nothing quantifiable at all.
That would have a little credence if the bulk of the Bible hadn't been written over several centuries by many authors from different countries and backgrounds and also centuries before Jesus arrival.
However, your argument is well reasoned and delivered and I thoroughly respect that.
There's no doubt Jesus was a real man but, everything considered, it is far more likely he was a man with a lot of charisma or strong rhetoric or potentially psychosis or schizophrenia.
Whatever he did occurred in an age of poor communication, and knowing humans, a lot of wandering hyperbole. That led to dramatisation and various fables and tales leading someone to compend the Bible.
Now, that makes sense. Or you could believe the Bible is all true and real based on absolutely nothing quantifiable at all.
On a slightly more serious note, I am always reluctant to get too involved in religious debates.
Religion gives lots of pleasure to millions of people. And it is one of those pleasures-whether to believe, not believe or sit on the fence-that is important. As is the fact that we live in a country where we are free to debate the existence of God, and what flavour it might be.
I don't like Religious extremists. Doesn't matter which religion. Islam. Christianity. Judaism. All have tremendous people of faith. And a vocal minority of extremists. Who want to restrict our choices.
The Pope. I'm not knocking Catholicism. Or Catholics. But if a religious leader feels it is OK to refer to gay people as "faggots" in 2024 then he needs to take a long hard look at himself.
Same here Phil, I always refrain from getting involved in discussions about religion on Forums, it invariably leads to issues & nobody ever moves their position. "Live & let live", whatever makes them happy.
But I was apalled by the comments attributed overnight to the Pope. If he really did say what he is reported as saying, he has to resign immediately (can Popes resign?) or if not, he must be removed & defrocked or whatever they call it.
In the last 40 or 50 years of my lifetime our attitude to gay people has changed out of all recognition, and surprisingly, much of that was due to the bravery of folks such as Elton John, to name but one example.
We can't be going backwards now. I am 100% sure that if the Pope said what he has been reported as saying, he must go.
Same here Phil, I always refrain from getting involved in discussions about religion on Forums, it invariably leads to issues & nobody ever moves their position. "Live & let live", whatever makes them happy.
But I was apalled by the comments attributed overnight to the Pope. If he really did say what he is reported as saying, he has to resign immediately (can Popes resign?) or if not, he must be removed & defrocked or whatever they call it.
In the last 40 or 50 years of my lifetime our attitude to gay people has changed out of all recognition, and surprisingly, much of that was due to the bravery of folks such as Elton John, to name but one example.
We can't be going backwards now. I am 100% sure that if the Pope said what he has been reported as saying, he must go.
There are times when people can have an excuse. Or at least decent mitigation.
Something said when young. Something said while under the influence. A joke taken out of context.
This was at a Bishops conference. At a speech. Explaining why he objects to celibate gay men being Priests (when he has publicly said differently). And that he objects to an air of "faggotry" permeating the Church.
If that is true, that is hate speech.
On a lighter note, a friend used to work for a Bishop. And was asked by him whether he could think of a term for a group of Bishops.
He suggested "a flatulence of Bishops". And was delighted to see a group of Bishops cackling.
Does Doubleme have a real live flesh & blood Girlfriend. Was it his Sister he put out as being his Girlfriend only he knows if he has two imaginary friends or true Love.
Must say I'm somewhat envious of people that truly believe in God to the extent they would give up their lives for their beliefs. Went to School when we had RI Teachers that taught the Bible never could get to grips with the contradictions the miracles. Church on a Sunday praise the Lord, money spinner being in the Choir 10 Shillings a week singing in Latin never understood a word. Religion was water of Duck's back for me and the more I listened to preachers Evangelists ect, the more I knew it wasn't for me. So my Boys were not brought up with Religion not at home or School but with the rules & regs everyday life, always told them make your own mind up it's a personal thing. So can you have a relationship with God. ! You bet. Just I don't have Dandruff. ?
What an absolutely awful, divisive and just nasty thing to say. That should make his position untenable and he should stand down immediately.
There will be the usual fudging and mealy mouthed excuses, "taken out of context", "translation issues", "misquoted" blah blah. The Catholic Church are the masters in the art of the head in the sand strategy.
Many gay people already feel that they cannot attend Churches for fear of being ostracized due to their sexuality. Comments from this buffoon certainly will not allay those fears.
Jesus would probably have sat and taken food with them. He had a history of associating with those traditionally shunned, feared and misunderstood. I believe he did that to show that Gods love and compassion was for all, and yet here is the most powerful man in Christianity failing to understand that.
Once again he has displayed the ignorance, arrogance, and hypocrisy that permeates the traditional Church. Wealthy beyond belief, cocooned in an almost regal ivory tower and flanked by ambitious, power crazy acolytes, he has brought Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular into disrepute.
No wonder people feel disconnected from God.
Pope Francis, Your Eminence. Get your coat, phone a taxi, your time here is up.
Comments
I have never seen your girlfriend in fact as far as I know nobody on here has ever seen her so why should anybody believe she even exists. Sound familiar. Ooh that's you except you're talking about God.
Now back to the question in hand.
I asked if you believe she loves you.
If you do that is an example of faith.
The evidence you base that faith on is simply a manifestation of an emotion. You believe because of a series of events, words, acts and gestures.
It doesn't mean love is real, just that you have faith, and believe, in it.
The basis of my faith, in fact all faith, is exactly the same, whether that be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism, etc. etc. People believe that there have been certain manifestations from whoever they choose to call God or Gods.
These may be physical, spiritual, emotional. Choosing to believe something without absolute proof is the very core of faith.
So I believe in something that can't yet be proven, I also believe in something that can't be disproven.
If it's all a load of cr4p then why are people so afraid, if it's just another conspiracy theory then why give it so much attention, just file it under baloney along with crop circles, flat earth and alien abduction and move along.
There is something we identify as love which we can see the signs of we do not have that for any deity these are not the same things. In fact there are actually patterns in the brain which have been studied and identified as love, So firstly your wrong both @MISTY4ME and @Tikay10 have met me and my girlfriend there is even a picture somewhere of me and my girlfriend on the forums.
Now I have evidence that my girlfriend exists as I see her every day and I have evidence that she loves me with how she behaves.
Now your doing exactly what i said I dislike about religion and religious people doing.
saying "believing anything without absolute proof is faith"
So is it faith that I believe the earth is not flat?
It could hypothetically be the case that any observations I take are manipulated that everything I read is manipulated and really we live on a flat earth
is it faith that I believe there is a country called England
It could be that I have been lied to my whole live and infact I live on a film set like Vanilla sky when i get in a plane the windows arent looking out to anything that is real but merely computer generated images been displayed so authentic looking to look like they are real
is it faith that I believe humans exist?
It could hypothetically be the case that humans never existed and in fact I am a warrior member of an entirely different species, that are at war with yet a different species again and I have been captured and strapped to some advanced machine that is altering my perception of reality, to decieve me into thinking I am a human amongst the human specieis for whatever malevant purposes that would be done.
is it faith that I believe I am not just a brain in a vat being decieved by impulses?
electircal impulses to the brain could simulate an entire reality and I could just be a brain in a vat
is it faith that I believe I am profitible at poker?
It could be that really I have been losing money and unknown to me I am actually a millionaire who has been drugged to think they are profitible, when really they are losing money hand over fist the sharkscope and withdrawls all figments of my imagination induced by the girl who I think is my girlfriend working for a crime syndicate using a combination of drugs and hypnosis.
is it faith that 2+2 is 4?
what if demons really exist and a demon is altering my thoughts so that every time I add 2 and 2 I get four when really the answer is 5? it may seem to make mathematical sense but really I am just been edited to believe that.
See because I will got there before you you do. In a court of law they say to proof guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. A court does not say to proof guilty beyond all doubt because if that were the case no one could ever be convicted. So to show how ridiciolous this gets lets entertain two hypothetical murder cases.
CASE A
In this case the Suspect threatened the victim that they would murder them, They wrote on social media saying they were going to kill the victim and the whole world will see. They were caught on camera stabbing the victim multiple times, their dna is all over the scene there are multiple witnesses and police apprehended the suspect because he was still stabbing the dead corpse repeatidly when they arrived there multiple witnesses all testifying.
Do we have proof beyond all reasonable dount? yes. do we have proof beyond all doubt? nope see it could be that extra terristial aliens hacked his social media accounts. they also sent nanobots to hack the cameras and anything they feed media to, to edit the footage. the witnesses had their brains altered and never actually saw anything but they believed fully what they saw. The aliens altered the DNA evidence and actually used a robot which was identical to the suspect and then switched the suspect in as they slowed down time so that the police apprehended the innocent suspect.
So we have proof beyond all reasonable doubt that the suspect is guilty. However we definitely do not have proof beyond all doubt. So if the jury find the suspect guilty are they just finding him guilty as a matter of faith? would you feel justice has been done if someone is found guilty as a matter of faith?
CASE B
lets go with another scenario then lets say there are no wittnesses no DNA evidence no social media posts the suspect lived a distance that would be a several hour drive from where the alleged victim was last seen. the victim has just gone missing no one knows for sure where they are or if they are still alive. However the suspect just looks a bit rough and the jury have bad vibes so just have a feeling that the suspect killed the victim. They find the suspect guilty just as a matter of faith.
I mean we don't have absolute proof in either case so are the convictions in both cases just a matter of faith?
its absolutely ridicolous to equate things we have lots of evidence for to be just as valid as something that we not only have no evidence for but even lots of evidence against.
If you want to throw your toys out the pram and say we cant know anything for absolute certainty and then try to assert therefore everything is a matter of faith then whatever but that is fundementally intellectually dishonest.
Many thousands of people met/ saw/ heard Christ. Is that also hearsay, because I kinda didn't meet him either. So here as with your good lady I have to have faith based on that. No real proof. Ahh but there is. Back to that in a moment.
Firstly your cases don't really help your point.
CASE A We find guilt based on the evidence, evidence that is tangible, evidence that is physical and evidence of our own eyes and ears. NO faith aspect here because we have proof.
CASE B Without any evidence whatsoever we would not be judging the accused because without evidence the case would not even see the inside of a courtroom. NO faith aspect here because it's not required.
No back to the good bit.
There is plenty of evidence for the existence of God, historical, textural, creational. Faith therefore is based on evidence which exists but is open to debate and interpretation.
Jesus Christ was real, he is there in history, mentioned in several works by prominent people of the time, including Julius Caesar. The textural criticism of the writings is pretty much accepted a true indication that Jesus was very real.
Why is this such an important thing when talking about God. Because Jesus always refused to accept credit for his works, his words or his actions, insisting that the credit lay with a higher authority. God.
Now I'll not bore you with the Jesus was God made man and also Holy Spirit. It is fascinating but many Christians struggle with the concept of The Trilogy, the Three in One Godhead, it's not something that is explainable by the use of memes and winnis.
I'll leave you with this.
I honestly don't give a hoot whether you or anybody else thinks it's possible to have a relationship with God, I have one and that's good enough for me. I am also ambivalent as to whether anybody believes in God or in Jesus. Does that mean I don't care. No.
Of course I care, I am sad when people reject God, but I'm not on a mission to save anybody and it has absolutely no impact on me either way, I'm confident in his promise and again that's good enough for me.
I am not running a recruitment campaign, that's not what I'm about. Yes I often mention my faith because that has got me through some really awful times. It's a part of who I am and that's why when I think that there's a pile on coming it's way, I revert to type, stand my ground and fire back.
If God exists, great. Faith rewarded and all is well. If it turns out he doesn't, great. I'll just be dead and will never know that I was wrong.
Seems like a win/win.
Whatever he did occurred in an age of poor communication, and knowing humans, a lot of wandering hyperbole. That led to dramatisation and various fables and tales leading someone to compend the Bible.
Now, that makes sense. Or you could believe the Bible is all true and real based on absolutely nothing quantifiable at all.
However, your argument is well reasoned and delivered and I thoroughly respect that.
Religion gives lots of pleasure to millions of people. And it is one of those pleasures-whether to believe, not believe or sit on the fence-that is important. As is the fact that we live in a country where we are free to debate the existence of God, and what flavour it might be.
I don't like Religious extremists. Doesn't matter which religion. Islam. Christianity. Judaism. All have tremendous people of faith. And a vocal minority of extremists. Who want to restrict our choices.
The Pope. I'm not knocking Catholicism. Or Catholics. But if a religious leader feels it is OK to refer to gay people as "faggots" in 2024 then he needs to take a long hard look at himself.
@Essexphil
Same here Phil, I always refrain from getting involved in discussions about religion on Forums, it invariably leads to issues & nobody ever moves their position. "Live & let live", whatever makes them happy.
But I was apalled by the comments attributed overnight to the Pope. If he really did say what he is reported as saying, he has to resign immediately (can Popes resign?) or if not, he must be removed & defrocked or whatever they call it.
In the last 40 or 50 years of my lifetime our attitude to gay people has changed out of all recognition, and surprisingly, much of that was due to the bravery of folks such as Elton John, to name but one example.
We can't be going backwards now. I am 100% sure that if the Pope said what he has been reported as saying, he must go.
Something said when young. Something said while under the influence. A joke taken out of context.
This was at a Bishops conference. At a speech. Explaining why he objects to celibate gay men being Priests (when he has publicly said differently). And that he objects to an air of "faggotry" permeating the Church.
If that is true, that is hate speech.
On a lighter note, a friend used to work for a Bishop. And was asked by him whether he could think of a term for a group of Bishops.
He suggested "a flatulence of Bishops". And was delighted to see a group of Bishops cackling.
Must say I'm somewhat envious of people that truly believe in God to the extent they would give up their lives for their beliefs.
Went to School when we had RI Teachers that taught the Bible never could get to grips with the contradictions the miracles. Church on a Sunday praise the Lord, money spinner being in the Choir 10 Shillings a week singing in Latin never understood a word.
Religion was water of Duck's back for me and the more I listened to preachers Evangelists ect, the more I knew it wasn't for me. So my Boys were not brought up with Religion not at home or School but with the rules & regs everyday life, always told them make your own mind up it's a personal thing.
So can you have a relationship with God. ! You bet. Just I don't have Dandruff. ?
What an absolutely awful, divisive and just nasty thing to say. That should make his position untenable and he should stand down immediately.
There will be the usual fudging and mealy mouthed excuses, "taken out of context", "translation issues", "misquoted" blah blah. The Catholic Church are the masters in the art of the head in the sand strategy.
Many gay people already feel that they cannot attend Churches for fear of being ostracized due to their sexuality. Comments from this buffoon certainly will not allay those fears.
Jesus would probably have sat and taken food with them. He had a history of associating with those traditionally shunned, feared and misunderstood. I believe he did that to show that Gods love and compassion was for all, and yet here is the most powerful man in Christianity failing to understand that.
Once again he has displayed the ignorance, arrogance, and hypocrisy that permeates the traditional Church. Wealthy beyond belief, cocooned in an almost regal ivory tower and flanked by ambitious, power crazy acolytes, he has brought Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular into disrepute.
No wonder people feel disconnected from God.
Pope Francis, Your Eminence. Get your coat, phone a taxi, your time here is up.
But.! we all saw the picture of doubleme's girlfriend, so......