What was wrong with the hand was that he got lucky and rivered you. I'd probably raise bigger pre (although in this case it wont make much of a difference), check raise is fine if you're pretty confident they're gonna bet, cos you don't wanna miss out on a bet. Turn is fine, it's a pretty dry board anyway, you'd be loving it if you knew he had AQ. River just stinks but you need to get it in. Posted by Lambert180
5x not big enough )
Do we lead on a dry flop with such a big hand and very possibly get worse to fold or get called and go to turn with a smaller pot Or Do we check letting worse and bluffs bet Not that I know oppo has a Q but it's in the range, but the bet give me a good idea about oppo's hand
Do we have to shove river because it's very obvious oppo has a VERY possible Q
At NL4 I generally just do my own betting, unless you have pretty decent reads he will bet if checked to, it's risky as he checks behind and you again lose street of value. Also check raising is pretty powerful and on that board he can only call with Qx or better, obvz he has perfect hand here, overall though I prefer standard cbet then bet turn strong and if you bet right amounts river hsould be close to shove.
As played river is tough because as you said flop is arid so to call a c/r then strong turn bet can he do that with 99/1010/JJ ? You have half-pot bet left but it's still 40bb to lose which is sizeable maybe it's just one of those horror cards like an Ace falling that you have to check and hope for check behind.
At NL4 I generally just do my own betting, unless you have pretty decent reads he will bet if checked to, it's risky as he checks behind and you again lose street of value. Also check raising is pretty powerful and on that board he can only call with Qx or better, obvz he has perfect hand here, overall though I prefer standard cbet then bet turn strong and if you bet right amounts river hsould be close to shove. As played river is tough because as you said flop is arid so to call a c/r then strong turn bet can he do that with 99/1010/JJ ? You have half-pot bet left but it's still 40bb to lose which is sizeable maybe it's just one of those horror cards like an Ace falling that you have to check and hope for check behind. Posted by Dudeskin8
Are we just turning our hand into a bluff on the river ?
Oppo is never folding a Q here so…..maybe JJ pays off – does AA fold
How can I c/f river, only worse checks behind surely
Could have another shot right now (Cash BR - £443) but just ain't got the will power to grind cash so am sticking to MTT's which I enjoy a lot more, they're also going well in tems of cashes etc which helps lol. Will return to cash eventually when I get the bug but just need a rest now.
On the NL20 thing aren't you close to trying it out ?
Could have another shot right now (Cash BR - £443) but just ain't got the will power to grind cash so am sticking to MTT's which I enjoy a lot more, they're also going well in tems of cashes etc which helps lol. Will return to cash eventually when I get the bug but just need a rest now. On the NL20 thing aren't you close to trying it out ? Posted by Dudeskin8
In Response to Re: Rancid and his Roll (Diary of a losing recreational player) : Are we just turning our hand into a bluff on the river ? Oppo is never folding a Q here so…..maybe JJ pays off – does AA fold How can I c/f river, only worse checks behind surely Don’t see how I get away tbh Anyway how you doing, back playing NL20 yet ? Posted by rancid
You just answered your own question, if you think he only checks behind with worse, than you think he's probably beating you if he bets.
But i'm a station so I would prob never fold this : )
In Response to Re: Rancid and his Roll (Diary of a losing recreational player) : You just answered your own question, if you think he only checks behind with worse, than you think he's probably beating you if he bets. But i'm a station so I would prob never fold this : )
Posted by Poker_Fail
Indeed how can I get away, c/f init – oppo can never be bluffing here given previous action – like one of them hands when you say omg what a bad beat, terrible outdraw but you always have the option to get away. I feel, correct me if I am wrong, this is a major difference between the good and the great players !!
It’s hard though, when a lot of money has gone in already compared to stacks.
But a correct fold will always save you money over the long term.
Just returned from a small stay at another site, will follow with interest, good luck. Nice thread title by the way, sure I have seen it somewhere before, LOL.
Imo though, i think poker can be a very personal (and cruel) game sometimes, and when i used to treat it as a hobby, i always thought of it like this:
"If i lose money, im paying for my entertainment. If i break-even or win, i get it for free, or get paid to have fun!"
Relying on being a winning player is a lot to ask both of yourself and of the poker-gods. Plus, putting pressure on yourself to please the missus (imo) isn't going to be all dandelions and butterflies either! People outside of poker don't really understand what the game can be like sometimes, and it'd be so painful for you to feel like you have to win and taking you eyes of what poker is really about. ENJOYING YOURSELF
Too many players nowadays think they can make it out there and be consistant winners. I'm not saying you can't, i'm just saying be cautious, and take it with a pinch of salt. If you win, brilliant. If you lose, c'est la vie!
Finally... ummm, the KK hand you posted? Was... trying to say it nicely but... butchered? :P
You 5x'd it pre telling everyone you had a monster (acceptable at lower stakes though because people arn't too observant) You proceeded to try and check-raise a VERY dry board with an overpair (again telling people you have a monster) when there's absolutely no reason to protect your hand on a board like that (as well as giving him the chance to take a free card and scare the sh... out of you if an A peels.) You then bomb the river on the card which is the absolute worst for your hand. Do you think he calls you down with JJ there?? You virtually beat nothing on the river yet still shove because, well, you have kings! Sigh :P
Only saying all that coz i'd like to see you succeed out there sir, and wish you all the best.
GL at the tables, Cheers, Carlos Smitalos
EDIT: Sorry if i came across brash, all this is only my opinion sir, and as said, i wouldn't be writing all that if i didn't like the 'cut of your jip'! JOLLY GOOD THREAD SIR.
Yes I enjoy my poker 1st , before winning and pleasing the missus )
Saying I butchered the hand is kinda harsh, if I get an indication that oppo is game then I know at this level the c/r will not look ultra strong because they are not laying down top pair so I can get more money in the pot
Anyway since when as checking so oppo puts money in the pot deemed to be bad ?
We should never be scared of being outdrawn imo, I can’t see any reason to protect my hand.
Leading out is probably pretty standard so I understand where your at sir at higher levels no doubt and it’s good for balance in the long run.
Lets not talk about the river, bit of a sore subject with me at the moment )
Shove is down to stack sizes tbh but I still don’t love it, if deeper I can get away.
What I see in this hand is an oppo who is passive and I can’t see how we don’t get it in on the flop/turn. No Q on river and oppo is stacking right !
Overall it's not my standard line but I think it's not that bad, opinions welcome as always.
update - cash only NL4/NL8 playing 2x NL8 - 1X NL4
Creeping back up again, silly session by me, going great then lost three hands where I should have got so far involved, o well £16 lost rarther than gained !! :S Lesson needs a learning - DROP THE EGO
17/11/2011 Starting roll £437 C4P 1237 - Current roll £427 C4P 1649
In Response to Re: Rancid and his Roll (Diary of a losing recreational player) : Indeed how can I get away, c/f init – oppo can never be bluffing here given previous action – like one of them hands when you say omg what a bad beat, terrible outdraw but you always have the option to get away. I feel, correct me if I am wrong, this is a major difference between the good and the great players !! It’s hard though, when a lot of money has gone in already compared to stacks. But a correct fold will always save you money over the long term. Posted by rancid
Completely agree, I would RARELY get away from a spot like this, but it does seem to be a bit of a -EV spot
Why are you playing NL8 with over £400? when are you panning to move up?
Good luck, i would be surprised not to see you at NL20+ soon : )
In Response to Re: Rancid and his Roll (Diary of a losing recreational player) : Completely agree, I would RARELY get away from a spot like this, but it does seem to be a bit of a -EV spot Why are you playing NL8 with over £400? when are you panning to move up? Good luck, i would be surprised not to see you at NL20+ soon : ) Posted by Poker_Fail
I am a BR nit ) NL20 is a long way off, plus I would have to iron out some leaks first !
I prefer to beat the level on a consistent basis then move up.
So if I need to move back down again, winning would not be a problem.
Just returned from a small stay at another site, will follow with interest, good luck. Nice thread title by the way, sure I have seen it somewhere before, LOL. Posted by 68Trebor
update - cash only NL4/NL8 playing 2x NL8 - 1X NL4 Creeping back up again, silly session by me, going great then lost three hands where I should have got so far involved, o well £16 lost rarther than gained !! :S Lesson needs a learning - DROP THE EGO 17/11/2011 Starting roll £437 C4P 1237 - Current roll £427 C4P 1649 Posted by rancid
was watching for a bit last night while waiting for a table and you seemed to be going great the table I was watching did have a few loose/agro players from the short time I watched. must have been a cooler as you were showing restraint. think it was the nl4 one. good luck m8
By the way, do you ever play during the day rather than evening as I am having difficulty getting a nl8 table and was wondering as to the standard? is nl10 similar to nl8/nl4? is it worth by-passing nl8? my roll is a bit less than yours.
Comments
Do we lead on a dry flop with such a big hand and very possibly get worse to fold or get called and go to turn with a smaller pot
Or
Do we check letting worse and bluffs bet
Not that I know oppo has a Q but it's in the range, but the bet give me a good idea about oppo's hand
Do we have to shove river because it's very obvious oppo has a VERY possible Q
As played river is tough because as you said flop is arid so to call a c/r then strong turn bet can he do that with 99/1010/JJ ? You have half-pot bet left but it's still 40bb to lose which is sizeable maybe it's just one of those horror cards like an Ace falling that you have to check and hope for check behind.
Are we just turning our hand into a bluff on the river ?
Oppo is never folding a Q here so…..maybe JJ pays off – does AA fold
How can I c/f river, only worse checks behind surely
Don’t see how I get away tbh
Anyway how you doing, back playing NL20 yet ?
On the NL20 thing aren't you close to trying it out ?
I am not in any rush, want to beat NL10 first
But i'm a station so I would prob never fold this : )
In Response to Re: Rancid and his Roll (Diary of a losing recreational player) : You just answered your own question, if you think he only checks behind with worse, than you think he's probably beating you if he bets. But i'm a station so I would prob never fold this : )
Posted by Poker_Fail
Indeed how can I get away, c/f init – oppo can never be bluffing here given previous action – like one of them hands when you say omg what a bad beat, terrible outdraw but you always have the option to get away. I feel, correct me if I am wrong, this is a major difference between the good and the great players !!
It’s hard though, when a lot of money has gone in already compared to stacks.
But a correct fold will always save you money over the long term.
Nice thread title by the way, sure I have seen it somewhere before, LOL.
Imo though, i think poker can be a very personal (and cruel) game sometimes, and when i used to treat it as a hobby, i always thought of it like this:
"If i lose money, im paying for my entertainment. If i break-even or win, i get it for free, or get paid to have fun!"
Relying on being a winning player is a lot to ask both of yourself and of the poker-gods. Plus, putting pressure on yourself to please the missus (imo) isn't going to be all dandelions and butterflies either!
People outside of poker don't really understand what the game can be like sometimes, and it'd be so painful for you to feel like you have to win and taking you eyes of what poker is really about. ENJOYING YOURSELF
Too many players nowadays think they can make it out there and be consistant winners. I'm not saying you can't, i'm just saying be cautious, and take it with a pinch of salt. If you win, brilliant. If you lose, c'est la vie!
Finally... ummm, the KK hand you posted? Was... trying to say it nicely but... butchered? :P
You 5x'd it pre telling everyone you had a monster (acceptable at lower stakes though because people arn't too observant)
You proceeded to try and check-raise a VERY dry board with an overpair (again telling people you have a monster) when there's absolutely no reason to protect your hand on a board like that (as well as giving him the chance to take a free card and scare the sh... out of you if an A peels.)
You then bomb the river on the card which is the absolute worst for your hand. Do you think he calls you down with JJ there?? You virtually beat nothing on the river yet still shove because, well, you have kings! Sigh :P
Only saying all that coz i'd like to see you succeed out there sir, and wish you all the best.
GL at the tables,
Cheers,
Carlos Smitalos
EDIT: Sorry if i came across brash, all this is only my opinion sir, and as said, i wouldn't be writing all that if i didn't like the 'cut of your jip'! JOLLY GOOD THREAD SIR.
Hope you crush the tables and start moving up. But without taking any of my money obviously
Thanks for the kind words people
@ Smitalos
Yes I enjoy my poker 1st , before winning and pleasing the missus )
Saying I butchered the hand is kinda harsh, if I get an indication that oppo is game then I know at this level the c/r will not look ultra strong because they are not laying down top pair so I can get more money in the pot
Anyway since when as checking so oppo puts money in the pot deemed to be bad ?
We should never be scared of being outdrawn imo, I can’t see any reason to protect my hand.
Leading out is probably pretty standard so I understand where your at sir at higher levels no doubt and it’s good for balance in the long run.
Lets not talk about the river, bit of a sore subject with me at the moment )
Shove is down to stack sizes tbh but I still don’t love it, if deeper I can get away.
What I see in this hand is an oppo who is passive and I can’t see how we don’t get it in on the flop/turn. No Q on river and oppo is stacking right !
Overall it's not my standard line but I think it's not that bad, opinions welcome as always.
C4P 1237
-
Current roll £421
C4P 1610
update - cash only NL4/NL8
playing 2x NL8 - 1X NL4
Creeping back up again, silly session by me, going great then lost three hands where I should have got so far involved, o well £16 lost rarther than gained !! :S Lesson needs a learning - DROP THE EGO
17/11/2011 Starting roll £437
C4P 1237
-
Current roll £427
C4P 1649
Why are you playing NL8 with over £400? when are you panning to move up?
Good luck, i would be surprised not to see you at NL20+ soon : )
the table I was watching did have a few loose/agro players from the short time I watched.
must have been a cooler as you were showing restraint. think it was the nl4 one.
good luck m8
By the way, do you ever play during the day rather than evening as I am having difficulty getting a nl8 table and was wondering as to the standard?
is nl10 similar to nl8/nl4? is it worth by-passing nl8?
my roll is a bit less than yours.