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set mining with queens @ NL4

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited December 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Ok oppo in this hand was seriously tight. He was on two of my tables, not playing many hands, (lowest of the 2 stacks was 300BB) and this was the first time id seen him 3bet another tight player. I put him onto a very tight range. Is set mining ok in this spot, this deep?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
xSmall blind  £0.02 £0.02 £21.66
ZedsDeadBa Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £3.96
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
   
The_Don90 Raise  £0.20 £0.26 £10.88
diamond8 Fold     
jaybeekay Fold     
stien Fold     
xRaise  £0.82 £1.08 £20.84
ZedsDeadBa Fold     
The_Don90 Call
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited December 2011
    Yh due to big stacks it should be ok, gets weird though when flop is 10 high, do you really fold to bet at NL4?

    Also that table looks rough, Zeds is reggy from past knowledge, stien isn't bad lol, you're a REG and you say x is tight too, NL4 getting hard clearly.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    Yh due to big stacks it should be ok, gets weird though when flop is 10 high, do you really fold to bet at NL4? Also that table looks rough, Zeds is reggy from past knowledge, stien isn't bad lol, you're a REG and you say x is tight too, NL4 getting hard clearly.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    i was on this table before Stien and Zebs both joined. it was nearing the end of the session and tbh i wasnt comfortable, However one player there is very good value. Also i felt ok opening up my range a little.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    Yh due to big stacks it should be ok, gets weird though when flop is 10 high, do you really fold to bet at NL4? Also that table looks rough, Zeds is reggy from past knowledge, stien isn't bad lol, you're a REG and you say x is tight too, NL4 getting hard clearly.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Please include sum kinda smiley to make it clear that you are joking.

    He doesn't need any encouragement!

    Quote (Donism) "Like I say, nl4 is only beatable if you run like God"

    Sigh.

    ---------

    Flatting is fine.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited December 2011
    I prefer flatting pre even if you are not just setmining
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : Please include sum kinda smiley to make it clear that you are joking. He doesn't need any encouragement! Quote (Donism) "Like I say, nl4 is only beatable if you run like God" Sigh. --------- Flatting is fine.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    You can tell the players that are playing with your guide though Dohhhhh )
    So yeah it is getting harder or easier depending on how you look at it

    Table selection is important at NL4, more than 2 regs and it just ain't worth it tbh





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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited December 2011
    3rd best starting hand at nl4 and your taking a defensive stance. like dude says what you going to do on non paint board? fold pre and wait for aces lol
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011
    Don't mind the flat but your stacking on a 10 high flop

    At least you have position

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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    Don't mind the flat but your stacking on a 10 high flop At least you have position
    Posted by rancid
    im folding any flop that doesnt contain a Queen. This guy was a mega nit.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : im folding any flop that doesnt contain a Queen. This guy was a mega nit.
    Posted by The_Don90
    How did oppo get that stack, that would help me decide if to set mine or 4 bet

    Kinda thinking if oppo has shown AA/KK already in a two hour session, then it's highly likely oppo has not got it unless oppo is just running like god
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2011
    To be honest, if truly are JUST set-mining and you will fold any flop that doesnt have a Queen, then I definitely fold now cos it's just way too big a bet.

    If you're set mining then you're probably gonna stack him just as often with a set of 2s as you are with a set Aces, so if you are JUST set mining then your QQ might aswell be 22 now and I don't believe you ever flat this bet with 22.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : How did oppo get that stack, that would help me decide if to set mine or 4 bet Kinda thinking if oppo has shown AA/KK already in a two hour session, then it's highly likely oppo has not got it unless oppo is just running like god
    Posted by rancid
    No offence but whether he's shown AA/KK earlier is a ridiculous and useless method of seeing whether he has it now. As we all know, if a coin is flipped 10 times and it comes 10 heads in a row, the odds of the next flip being a head are still just as even as it being tails...

    I've had AA in back to back hands on the same table a couple of times. There's no way you can say he's had it once recently so he won't have it now.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : How did oppo get that stack, that would help me decide if to set mine or 4 bet Kinda thinking if oppo has shown AA/KK already in a two hour session, then it's highly likely oppo has not got it unless oppo is just running like god
    Posted by rancid
    tbh he had most of it before i sat down. I think he stacked someone not long before for the final lil bit. He hasnt shown AA/KK that i know of. However he also hasnt 3bet either me or Stien.
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited December 2011

    don, unless you play this guy day in day out you cant put him on a range of 2 hands just because he "3" bets, and if he does only 3 bet with aa or kk then he is a very very bad player. i would suggest this is more a csae of negitive thinking due to bad results. 4 bet to £3.20 and stop being a wuss!

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011


    @Lambert

    I just use all information I have to make a decision, if you have no information then you have to go with what you've got. Is this really ridic ) We are talking about the law of averages here !
    While it's possible to have AA/KK dealt within a short space of time, the fact is you just dont unless your a **** lucker

    Don has QQ, if oppo has recently shown AA/KK then frankly 4 bet looking to get it in
    If oppo shows up again with AA/KK then hey ho, well f^^k me down run better

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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    don, unless you play this guy day in day out you cant put him on a range of 2 hands just because he "3" bets, and if he does only 3 bet with aa or kk then he is a very very bad player. i would suggest this is more a csae of negitive thinking due to bad results. 4 bet to £3.20 and stop being a wuss!
    Posted by pod1
    hows this for a read.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    xSmall blind  £0.02 £0.02 £21.66
    ZedsDeadBa Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £3.96
     Your hole cards
    • Q
    • Q
    		   
    The_Don90 Raise  £0.20 £0.26 £10.88
    diamond8 Fold     
    jaybeekay Fold     
    stien Fold     
    xRaise  £0.82 £1.08 £20.84
    ZedsDeadBa Fold     
    The_Don90 Call  £0.64 £1.72 £10.24
    Flop
      
    • Q
    • J
    • 6
    		   
    xBet  £0.86 £2.58 £19.98
    The_Don90 Raise  £3.44 £6.02 £6.80
    xAll-in  £19.98 £26.00 £0.00
    The_Don90 All-in  £6.80 £32.80 £0.00
    xUnmatched bet  £10.60 £22.20 £10.60
    xShow
    • A
    • A
    		   
    The_Don90 Show
    • Q
    • Q
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 3
    		   
    River
      
    • 8
    		   
    The_Don90 Win Three Queens £20.80  £20.80
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011
    nh _)
    Does oppo never 3 bet like this with AK/JJ !!
    Even on this occasion you are right, what about when your wrong.

    Would it not be better to know oppo's 3 betting range in these spots

    Do we need more reads for this flat ?

    open to the floor.....................
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4:
    @Lambert I just use all information I have to make a decision, if you have no information then you have to go with what you've got. Is this really ridic ) We are talking about the law of averages here ! While it's possible to have AA/KK dealt within a short space of time, the fact is you just dont unless your a **** lucker Don has QQ, if oppo has recently shown AA/KK then frankly 4 bet looking to get it in If oppo shows up again with AA/KK then hey ho, well f^^k me down run better
    Posted by rancid
    Well no we're talking about the laws of probability and I said, you could flip a coin and get heads 1 million times in a row, and that still does not affect the odds of the next flip in the slightest.

    I'm not sure exactly what the odds are of being dealt AA but it's really not as unlikely as people think. Very roughly I think it's something like 1/169 but the odds of it happening again 20 mins later are still 1/169 and we just have no idea whether this guy is on the worst run bad of his life or is running like god, I've heard of people getting AA pre 3 hands in a row. I'm not saying it's likely, you're probably never gonna see that happen but I wouldnt like to base my decisions on the random odds of random cards being dealt.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2011
    No offence Don, but depsite winning this, I doubt think set-mining here is profitable. It could be profitable if you're not so sure he has AA/KK and you're willing to continue on different flops but if you're JUST set-mining, I don't think calling about 20 BBs from a 200BB stack (10% of your stack) to hit 1 in 9 times.

    So just logically speaking 9 times combined you'll put in 180BBs and ok if you stack him when you hit  that once you get 200BBs but can you really be sure you're gonna stack EVERY time you hit the set?? What happens when you hit the set and only win 100BBs, then you're 80BBs down.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2011
    Lambert i was pretty certain he had AA/KK there fore i rekoned if i hit my set im getting full stack 99% of the time. tbh ive played about 5500 hands in the last 3 days, and this particular oppo keeps cropping up, very rarley have i seen him get it in light. He seems like a better player than most at NL4.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited December 2011
    @Lambert
    So....

    Situation 1. oppo has shown AA & KK in the last two hours

    Are you more likely to 4 bet


    Situation 2. oppo has not played a hand for two hours

    are you more likely to flat

    If the situation/dynamics at the table do not affect your decision then what do you base your next move on ?

    Oppo raises three time on the bounce, you have 9's - what do you do ?
    oppo not moved a chip for an hour raises, you have 9's - what do you do ?

    cmon lets play poker

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