Don, I had this guy as a weak player, so he's passive and a bit of a station. Earlier he limp called my 3 bet w/ Q6dd, flop went 3 way and he made a house v another weak player holding Q8, board was QQ65A. Here he has a very big hand, he's passive and 3 betting your UTG raise out of the blinds, how many clues do we need? The range your putting him on is right and your a 60/40 dog against it. He's not 3 betting you with a hand your beating AQ/JJ/TT or the 1 combo of QQ so you can’t 4 bet this player in this spot for value. Your both deep so calling is the best play, if you flop a set the fact his range is so narrow means you will almost certainly win a very big pot, this player is never folding AA/KK as an over pair. The only hand your ahead of here is AK but again flatting is fine v this player in this spot as I doubt he would barrel a missed flop and turn. Your ip so I think you can plan to call any non AK flop and fold to a turn barrel. Folding on a non AK flop is too weak imo to a cbet when he can have AK in his range. If he checks flop I would bet/fold if he check raises you. Post hand I entered "dream spot for you Don v him there" in chat and it certainly was. IMO you played the hand well. You played another hand with him soon after where you lost half the money back to him, if I recall rightly you had AK and it went check/check on mono club flop A high, on a non club turn he c/c with JcTx and he only c/c river when he made his broadway straight. I seem to recall that your river "value" bet was too big and I that you should have bet the flop but this hand again showed this player to be passive and a bit of a station. Posted by stien
ty for the responce mate. Glad you think my read is right. i was in mini view at the time so didnt see it till after ud left the table.
The hand later your referring to is this one. TJ wasnt a hand i put him on and felt i beat most other things in his range. Misplayed it pre in fairness.
On KQx we can bet and get QQQ in for value as we are beating 6 combo's of AA, and 12 combo's of AK all hands this villain will get it in with on this flop, if he has one of the 3 combo's of KK it's just too bad. The point is we are trying to bet for value and pre flop there is no value in this spot v this player to 4 bet, but on a KQx flop there is value, so betting and getting it in is fine. Even against the narrowest of ranges of AA/KK we have 60% equity with QQQ.
I had an hour to kill and thought I’d have a bit of fun, plus getting all your money in ahead and getting beat only costs £4 at nl4, it's almost painless.
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : Jibbz busted his acc init Posted by CrazyBen23
Now, now Ben behave. Jibbz does have a remarkable knack of hitting with any two v me, It must be any two cos he calls almost all my raises, i'd love to know what he folds pre!
Thought oppo was some sorta 4nl superhero given he had over 550 bbs, I think you and stien had over 200 each when I joined and figured you'd been filleting the contents of a small grimsby trawler between you, so cautiously sat down and gave you all an uber wide berth whilst enjoying the game.
Although I know next to sodd all poker wise, my asessment of Oppo soon changed with all the limp calling and the flopped house hand mentioned by Stien.
However fwiw I recall thinking at the time that he had had either aces or kings against your queens as he'd clearly stopped faffing around and got all serious.
Which in itself poses more questions than it answers given the clinics advice runs counter to how he was playing his marginal hands. (Not that I'm suggesting the advice is wrong).
Don, I had this guy as a weak player, so he's passive and a bit of a station. Earlier he limp called my 3 bet w/ Q6dd, flop went 3 way and he made a house v another weak player holding Q8, board was QQ65A. Here he has a very big hand, he's passive and 3 betting your UTG raise out of the blinds, how many clues do we need? The range your putting him on is right and your a 60/40 dog against it. He's not 3 betting you with a hand your beating AQ/JJ/TT or the 1 combo of QQ so you can’t 4 bet this player in this spot for value. Your both deep so calling is the best play, if you flop a set the fact his range is so narrow means you will almost certainly win a very big pot, this player is never folding AA/KK as an over pair. The only hand your ahead of here is AK but again flatting is fine v this player in this spot as I doubt he would barrel a missed flop and turn. Your ip so I think you can plan to call any non AK flop and fold to a turn barrel. Folding on a non AK flop is too weak imo to a cbet when he can have AK in his range. If he checks flop I would bet/fold if he check raises you. Post hand I entered "dream spot for you Don v him there" in chat and it certainly was. IMO you played the hand well. You played another hand with him soon after where you lost half the money back to him, if I recall rightly you had AK and it went check/check on mono club flop A high, on a non club turn he c/c with JcTx and he only c/c river when he made his broadway straight. I seem to recall that your river "value" bet was too big and I that you should have bet the flop but this hand again showed this player to be passive and a bit of a station. Posted by stien
Sorry Stein I know you're a very good player but he's putting him on just AA/KK which I dont believe is possible unless he's played a silly amount of hands against him and if that is the case, since when was QQ 60/40 against AA/KK? He's either MILES behind or at best flipping if he does have AK (but that wasn't in the range Don gave him)
i would of called here aswell preflop it disguises ya strong hand it can cost you more on a low flop tho if opponent has aa or kk but i think a call is fine Posted by IDONKCALLU
Even when the Don has said that he has DEFINTELY got AA or KK?
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : Sorry Stein I know you're a very good player but he's putting him on just AA/KK which I dont believe is possible unless he's played a silly amount of hands against him and if that is the case, since when was QQ 60/40 against AA/KK? He's either MILES behind or at best flipping if he does have AK (but that wasn't in the range Don gave him) Posted by Lambert180
Lambert,
The important point from this hand is Don can't get value here against villain's range, I was at the table and my read on this player was passive, what hands does a passive player 3 bet an UTG raiser with out of the blinds?
Don put him on AA/KK is he right or wrong? I think he can also have AK here that's where the 60/40 dog comes from. I do however feel Dons flat was right because he can't 4 bet for value against a passsive players range in this spot 3 betting from the blinds, against other player types and 3 bets from other positions he would be able to but not here.
When you add up all the infomation in front of you 4 betting here is IMO burning money, Don can't fold because he can have AK and he can flop a set deep with implied odds. I agree a range of AA/KK is too tight, he should not have ruled out AK but he still can't 4 bet for value even if he had included it.
It is very possible to put a player on a very strong range when he tells you that's what he has. What are you putting the guy on, what are you doing in this spot and why?
Lambert i did state later i rekon AK made up a small % of his range. However i ruled out AQ/JJ/TT/QQ which meant his range was 3 hands, 1 i beat 2 i dont.
Fwiw stien ive played with him a few more times since and your read is pretty much right. I wasnt paying full attention to him during this session but glad my reads where still on the right lines. I missed the FH hand u mentioned.
Lambert I hope you haven’t got me wrong, I think it would be interesting to hear what you are putting the guy on, what are you doing in this spot and why?
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : Now, now Ben behave. Jibbz does have a remarkable knack of hitting with any two v me, It must be any two cos he calls almost all my raises, i'd love to know what he folds pre! Posted by stien
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : Why do you think you keep losing? "I dunno" is not a good enough answer I'm afraid. ;o) Z. Posted by ZedsDeadBa
oh the whole i run like carp (yes im talking about a type of fish here and not getting round a swear filter) also i tilt when this happens mean i then make mistakes. Tbh when im on a tougher table i actually play better as weird as it seems. Maybe compleceny is an issue.
this gonna sound weird but i think 10nl and 20 nl is easier then 4 nl because u cant bluff on 4nl u get called down all the time because people dnt know what fold is on that level on 10nl and 20nl u can do moves and get away with bluffs is it just me or any 1 else agree Posted by IDONKCALLU
i was actually just speaking to dohhh about this. Im in profit in tournys im in profit on STTs (not much tho) and on all cash levels ive played (less hands obv) but im over 150BIs down on NL4 in 2 years.
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : i was actually just speaking to dohhh about this. Im in profit in tournys im in profit on STTs (not much tho) and on all cash levels ive played (less hands obv) but im over 150BIs down on NL4 in 2 years. Makes no sense to me. Posted by The_Don90
In the seven months I've been playing I'm down twenty buy-in's on stt's and mtt's, but up forty five buy-ins on Cash!
Comments
The hand later your referring to is this one. TJ wasnt a hand i put him on and felt i beat most other things in his range. Misplayed it pre in fairness.
I had an hour to kill and thought I’d have a bit of fun, plus getting all your money in ahead and getting beat only costs £4 at nl4, it's almost painless.
Now, now Ben behave. Jibbz does have a remarkable knack of hitting with any two v me, It must be any two cos he calls almost all my raises, i'd love to know what he folds pre!
Remember the hand well!
Thought oppo was some sorta 4nl superhero given he had over 550 bbs, I think you and stien had over 200 each when I joined and figured you'd been filleting the contents of a small grimsby trawler between you, so cautiously sat down and gave you all an uber wide berth whilst enjoying the game.
Although I know next to sodd all poker wise, my asessment of Oppo soon changed with all the limp calling and the flopped house hand mentioned by Stien.
However fwiw I recall thinking at the time that he had had either aces or kings against your queens as he'd clearly stopped faffing around and got all serious.
Which in itself poses more questions than it answers given the clinics advice runs counter to how he was playing his marginal hands. (Not that I'm suggesting the advice is wrong).
Nice hand and nice pot though, well done.
Regards,
Z.
Fwiw stien ive played with him a few more times since and your read is pretty much right. I wasnt paying full attention to him during this session but glad my reads where still on the right lines. I missed the FH hand u mentioned.
Lambert I hope you haven’t got me wrong, I think it would be interesting to hear what you are putting the guy on, what are you doing in this spot and why?
don why do you play nl4? your clearly more skilled to play higher
"I dunno" is not a good enough answer I'm afraid. ;o)
Z.
Makes no sense to me.
I think you and I ought to get together.
Z.