In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : oh the whole i run like carp (yes im talking about a type of fish here and not getting round a swear filter) also i tilt when this happens mean i then make mistakes. Tbh when im on a tougher table i actually play better as weird as it seems. Maybe compleceny is an issue. Posted by The_Don90
You cant be running bad (referring to your next post) for two years, surely!!!!!
However if complacency is an issue perhaps you should be playing at a higher level, to the detriment of BR management I know but it would appear failure is a self fulfilling prophecy if you stay @nl4.....No??
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : In the seven months I've been playing I'm down twenty buy-in's on stt's and mtt's, but up forty five buy-ins on Cash! I think you and I ought to get together. Z. Posted by ZedsDeadBa
thats the issue tho zebs. At higher stakes im +EV in cash. Just cant beat the super micros.
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : thats the issue tho zebs. At higher stakes im +EV in cash. Just cant beat the super micros. Posted by The_Don90
Well I'm not trying to be rude but that's just silly!
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : simple, i keep losing at NL4 and until ive beaten NL4 i cant play higher right? Posted by The_Don90
Do you have a job Don? I seriously think if you deposited say £60 just to have a little shot at NL20 then you could grind it up, imo your thinking would be better suited at that level
But you could take a shot, but doesn’t mean if it goes well he should move up
If you spin up, then use the winnings to move to NL8/NL10
Down swings happen, no matter what level you play
While running hot you think you can never lose, until you hit a bad spell and this can easily wipe you out if your playing with a large percentage of your BR- no matter how good you are
All this talk about playing bad players at NL4, and how this is not good – please cmon
As long as your getting you money in +EV then long term you will win provided your BR can take the downswing
Bad beats/ outdraws happen, that’s poker – higher stakes you may call a bluff and they still outdraw you – look
at the last MC top of the pots, mad outdraw for like £2000 –
Don I would advise you to put all you BR together and start playing NL8/10, your just on a NL4 tilt rollercoaster m8’ty
don, if you can make a profit at nl10 nl20 (which im fairly sure you can) then forget about nl4, people say dont move up stakes if you cant beat the level but i dont think this applys to nl4 despite what others say. i found it alot harder to grind cash on nl4 coz players only play their cards.
Seriously Don how would you feel if you 'took shot' at NL20 and lost ALL your roll it would be pretty nasty and then you would HAVE to start at NL4 but this time with a presumably tiny BR, at least now the beats shouldn't hurt but they would if you went back to £30-40 .
every week on this forum there's threads about nl4 & 8, normally with the same people saying the same things and no1 ever seems to get anywhere....
There's a pool of micro cash players, Don, Rancid, Lambert, Dudeskin, Debs, Junglegeek, MP33, Drsharp and prob some others who seem to have been working away for weeks/months (and in Dons case, years) to try and break out of the micros.......
I'm not saying none of you are making progress, and there's no rush to do so as long as you get there in the end, but constant speculation about br/shot taking and to a lesser extent table selection and strategy is just unneccessary & it's holding u all back imo!
As a 30nl player, I get to play against the micro stakes graduates before they go on into the proper games, and there's only really 2 people I can think of in the last year who have gone through the levels from scratch, and they are Ozzie & Pryce.......
Instead of constantly speculating about what you should and should not be doing, it's blatently obvious that you should just copy what they did!
Stuff like "it's easier to play nl10 & nl20 than nl4" just makes me wonder if some of you are for real.
How many times do you need it explaining that this is just absolute nonsense? Seriously. Had it with Don again on MSN this morning, the same convo we had a year ago. It's like there's just no progress @ all??? :S N it's not just Don, as this thread highlights......
Just copy what Ozzie and Pryce did, played alot of tables, for alot of hours, won alot of money, made alot of progress up the stakes! It's not rocket science and it's really not that hard.
Post all the hands and strategy questions u like, but constantly posting rubbish about what levels to play makes me wanna bang my head against the wall! Aaaaghhhhhh
Just re-read the post, prob shudnt have named ppl, nothing in the post is specific to any 1 person btw b4 ppl get offended! ......apart from the Don examples, which he wont mind as I tell him 75 times a day anyway Tomoro IDcallu! It'z onnnnnnn Posted by DOHHHHHHH
yer defo. i know its prob just variance, i have improved and tbh, over the past 24 months id be lucky to have played 50k in hands, this month alone im already just shy of 9k if i can keep pummilning out those kind of figures i have in the first week of december surley ill be on the move soon.
I hear what your saying Dohhhh but I feel for Don and others in a similar position because I am still in it. Very disheartening when in the majority you getting it in good and getting stuffed on turn/river. I don't blame Don for thinking if I take a shot and it goes well, happy days. Quite disappointed when I see him on MC and he was up £80 and to find out he down by the same amount on the other table. While there's many that maybe hope he continues to suffer the distress of NL4, I actually want to see him get out of it before he quits again There are **** luckers that get away with it, deposit £50 and spin it up to £500 in a week. So why do these not get bad beats and outdraws Your like the wise old man Dohhhh and I respect your game and what you say a lot but you gotta show some empathy ) Maybe just block Don on MSN !!! Posted by rancid
dohhhhh is very sound. usually when playing i hve an outlet to take my beats out on, usually it is JJ, unfortunetly yesterday and this morning dohhh wasnt awake during my irst two sessions, therefor by the time he gets out of bed im already on major tilt and i unleash it all in one mega frezy.
As one said before "my tilt tilts him" but tbh he takes it well, tells me to stfu and by the time ive de-tilted we're talking the long term solution again.
Dohhhhh does seem like a straight talking no nonsense kind of guy and I applaud him for it. He does kinda keep you in line and back on track with the correct BRM. Plus he knows what he is talking about and his input on this forum has helped me and countless others improve our game.
So you can’t really get annoyed with him can you)
But on a side note maybe WE should stop all this posting nonsense and just play some poker and endure the long grind ahead of us until we can actually play him and take his money, who will be laughing then )
Also I have been thinking that maybe posting so much about how we play as some kind of negative impact. Especially posting hands, don’t think this helps us. Maybe I am being paranoid but I don’t seem to be getting the action I once got In certain spots, maybe being an unknown has benefits.
In Response to Re: set mining with queens @ NL4 : dohhhhh is very sound. usually when playing i hve an outlet to take my beats out on, usually it is JJ, unfortunetly yesterday and this morning dohhh wasnt awake during my irst two sessions, therefor by the time he gets out of bed im already on major tilt and i unleash it all in one mega frezy. As one said before "my tilt tilts him" but tbh he takes it well, tells me to stfu and by the time ive de-tilted we're talking the long term solution again. Posted by The_Don90
Don if you are interested I am willing to work with you on this, PM me if you are interested and we can take it from there. Maybe I can take some of the pressure off dohhh.
every week on this forum there's threads about nl4 & 8, normally with the same people saying the same things and no1 ever seems to get anywhere.... There's a pool of micro cash players, Don, Rancid, Lambert, Dudeskin, Debs, Junglegeek, MP33, Drsharp and prob some others who seem to have been working away for weeks/months (and in Dons case, years) to try and break out of the micros....... I'm not saying none of you are making progress, and there's no rush to do so as long as you get there in the end, but constant speculation about br/shot taking and to a lesser extent table selection and strategy is just unneccessary & it's holding u all back imo! As a 30nl player, I get to play against the micro stakes graduates before they go on into the proper games, and there's only really 2 people I can think of in the last year who have gone through the levels from scratch, and they are Ozzie & Pryce....... Instead of constantly speculating about what you should and should not be doing, it's blatently obvious that you should just copy what they did! Stuff like "it's easier to play nl10 & nl20 than nl4" just makes me wonder if some of you are for real. How many times do you need it explaining that this is just absolute nonsense? Seriously. Had it with Don again on MSN this morning, the same convo we had a year ago. It's like there's just no progress @ all??? :S N it's not just Don, as this thread highlights...... Just copy what Ozzie and Pryce did, played alot of tables, for alot of hours, won alot of money, made alot of progress up the stakes! It's not rocket science and it's really not that hard. Post all the hands and strategy questions u like, but constantly posting rubbish about what levels to play makes me wanna bang my head against the wall! Aaaaghhhhhh #rant ova! Need some new blood in the 30nl games, hurry up! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
+1 Or put more simply learn how to beat the level you are playing at. People saying on here you can't bluff at nl4, why would you want to bluff at nl4? It's basics like this that need addressing.
I know all about bad beats, getting all the money in front and getting beat drives me mad too, I feel I’m a dog with all the money in ahead but at the end of the day getting all the money in ahead is the thing you can control, after that you can’t control the cards, I wish I could but I can't.
For those grinding nl4 you should listen to Doh, although he talks a lot of BS sometimes he is right. No way should you 'move up where they respect your raises!".
Learn how to play 6+ tables, sit there and fold until you have the nuts (which may well be top pair vs most players). Get reads, get the money in ahead and watch your balance tick up. I started with £20 in my Sky Acc just over a year ago and started learning cash at nl4, only moving up to nl8 when I had 160, nl10 when I had 200. I played nl30 until I had ~£2k, and since then I've been making a good living playing nl50/100 so with a lot of hours and hard work it can be done. As you move up you will need to adapt and learn every session, that's why it's important to take your time.
Tbf Don, I've only really read this thread of yours, havn't taken the time to read the others, but if you have solid reads like this you should be fine. I love the flat and knowing he has AA/KK is pretty sick. By the sounds of your reads and the table positions I probably would have made the same read.
I think if you want to move up I'd definitely mix in a few satellites here and there, try and get a £100+ bink that really gives your BR a boost and gives you a lot of confidence moving forward.
I'm not sure exactly what the odds are of being dealt AA but it's really not as unlikely as people think. Very roughly I think it's something like 1/169 Posted by Lambert180
Interesting thread. For those grinding nl4 you should listen to Doh, although he talks a lot of BS sometimes he is right. No way should you 'move up where they respect your raises!". Learn how to play 6+ tables, sit there and fold until you have the nuts (which may well be top pair vs most players). Get reads, get the money in ahead and watch your balance tick up. I started with £20 in my Sky Acc just over a year ago and started learning cash at nl4, only moving up to nl8 when I had 160, nl10 when I had 200. I played nl30 until I had ~£2k, and since then I've been making a good living playing nl50/100 so with a lot of hours and hard work it can be done. As you move up you will need to adapt and learn every session, that's why it's important to take your time. Tbf Don, I've only really read this thread of yours, havn't taken the time to read the others, but if you have solid reads like this you should be fine. I love the flat and knowing he has AA/KK is pretty sick. By the sounds of your reads and the table positions I probably would have made the same read. I think if you want to move up I'd definitely mix in a few satellites here and there, try and get a £100+ bink that really gives your BR a boost and gives you a lot of confidence moving forward. Posted by pryce6
Thanks for the feedback Pryce, it's nice to know players of your level started at NL4 and shows what can be achieved.
ty pryce tbh ive been playing really bad recently. Getting over confident, almost expecting results, because id actually started "grinding" rather than playing when i felt like it. Making lots of errors as a result.
I completely agree with Dohhh but he got there before me. It's completely ludicrious to say 10NL/20NL is easier than 4NL. 4NL is as easy as it gets, what more can you ask for than people who happily stack off with 2nd pair?
@Donk - I think it's a serious fault to say, I like to bluff so I don't like 4NL. Surely you adapt your game to the players regardless of what's going on? Sometimes you'll be on an MTT table with a bunch of maniacs and sometimes youll be on one with a bunch of supernits, you can't just have one game type and stick to it all the time.
The reason I'm still playing the micros stakes is A) because I basically just aint put enough hours in I've gotten my bankroll up before and blown it on other formats (DYMs and MTTs). So now I've ditched all the other stuff (with the exception of the weekly DTD but that's only about 1 BI at 4NL) and I'm grinding the cash again. I don't wanna do the whole diary thread and all that jive but I expect to be about £100 up ove the next 3-4 weeks, then I can start comfortably multitabling 10NL again.
P.S. Dohhh if you wanna do TeamViewer with me at some point to see if you can spot any leaks that my speed up my progress, let me know! I downloaded it last night.
Comments
However if complacency is an issue perhaps you should be playing at a higher level, to the detriment of BR management I know but it would appear failure is a self fulfilling prophecy if you stay @nl4.....No??
Z.
You have to move up surely.
Awaits the barage of abuse! ;o{
Don can’t move up because he has not got the BR
But you could take a shot, but doesn’t mean if it goes well he should move up
If you spin up, then use the winnings to move to NL8/NL10
Down swings happen, no matter what level you play
While running hot you think you can never lose, until you hit a bad spell and this can easily wipe you out if your playing with a large percentage of your BR- no matter how good you are
All this talk about playing bad players at NL4, and how this is not good – please cmon
As long as your getting you money in +EV then long term you will win provided your BR can take the downswing
Bad beats/ outdraws happen, that’s poker – higher stakes you may call a bluff and they still outdraw you – look
at the last MC top of the pots, mad outdraw for like £2000 –
Don I would advise you to put all you BR together and start playing NL8/10, your just on a NL4 tilt rollercoaster m8’ty
Seriously Don how would you feel if you 'took shot' at NL20 and lost ALL your roll it would be pretty nasty and then you would HAVE to start at NL4 but this time with a presumably tiny BR, at least now the beats shouldn't hurt but they would if you went back to £30-40
As one said before "my tilt tilts him" but tbh he takes it well, tells me to stfu and by the time ive de-tilted we're talking the long term solution again.
Dohhhhh does seem like a straight talking no nonsense kind of guy and I applaud him for it. He does kinda keep you in line and back on track with the correct BRM. Plus he knows what he is talking about and his input on this forum has helped me and countless others improve our game.
So you can’t really get annoyed with him can you)
But on a side note maybe WE should stop all this posting nonsense and just play some poker and endure the long grind ahead of us until we can actually play him and take his money, who will be laughing then )
Also I have been thinking that maybe posting so much about how we play as some kind of negative impact. Especially posting hands, don’t think this helps us. Maybe I am being paranoid but I don’t seem to be getting the action I once got In certain spots, maybe being an unknown has benefits.
+1 Or put more simply learn how to beat the level you are playing at. People saying on here you can't bluff at nl4, why would you want to bluff at nl4? It's basics like this that need addressing.
I know all about bad beats, getting all the money in front and getting beat drives me mad too, I feel I’m a dog with all the money in ahead but at the end of the day getting all the money in ahead is the thing you can control, after that you can’t control the cards, I wish I could but I can't.
@Donk - I think it's a serious fault to say, I like to bluff so I don't like 4NL. Surely you adapt your game to the players regardless of what's going on? Sometimes you'll be on an MTT table with a bunch of maniacs and sometimes youll be on one with a bunch of supernits, you can't just have one game type and stick to it all the time.
The reason I'm still playing the micros stakes is A) because I basically just aint put enough hours in
P.S. Dohhh if you wanna do TeamViewer with me at some point to see if you can spot any leaks that my speed up my progress, let me know! I downloaded it last night.