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Lambert180 ----- Life After The Grind -------

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games : How often am I gonna get a fold here after that big of a 3bet? Because obviously I NEED to get folds to make it profitable when I'm gonna be flipping as the underdog nearly all the time.
    Posted by Lambert180
    So lets say oppo calls and turns over a pair, ok your flipping -
    if you only 4 bet AA/KK then how do you expect to get paid ever ?
    I may sound a bit hyprocrital but if oppo is a random, and you are readless - it's a totally differant situation if a tight reg 3 bets you from the blinds - the same question, can you really lay down AK -
    Do we ever get folds from mid-high prs with a shove, do we want folds long term in this spot with hands we open from UTG
    Hand in a vacum you can say yeah I fold, feel good about it - but long term is this correct

    What your image, someone that only 4 bets AA/KK

    Don't think the fold is bad or good, depends on your image and what your trying to achieve
    4 betting this spot the same as holding QQ+ is ok too

    Overall it's easier to find folds verus regs than randoms

    I don't agree with folding and waiting for the spot to appear versus someone else where we can then make a note
    You have AK jam it, make note - move on

    If we are rolled we can take these flips - be it pre or on the flop




  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited May 2012
    £2.10 dead money in there already remember..........

    So if he has a pair, and never folds, it's £9 more to win £10 (7.80 + 2.10) . Bit above evens to compensate for us only being 46% :P


  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2012
    Still think they fold sometimes, don't think the 3 bet is that big
    Would be nice to know if oppo 3 bet gets it in with JJ<
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited May 2012
    Also posted on the clinic thread.

    I 4bet shove, worst case scenario is we're crushed, but most of the time, we end up getting useful information on our opponent when he calls with the weaker end of his range.

    As others have said, I don't think the fold is terrible against some villains and it is one that I'll make from time to time, as well. Readless, I get it in and make notes for next time.
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    I don't think it that bad a fold tbh. Firstly you've raised UTG which is position of tightest range (presumably) and even with this he feels strong enough 3bet out of the blinds (the toughest positions to play post flop).
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    You go on about how nl4 players only look at their cards to the board and don't think about yours, yet give them credit to think abotut this?
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    Thanks for the input guys, I have taken it on board. I think part of the reason I made the decision was because I used to post loads of 4NL and 8NL hands in the clinic and I had quite a few comments on various different hands saying it seemed like I was being too gambly and was too up for a race. Even still, looking back, that was mighty nitty.

    Anyway, got a really really quick session in tonight, cos I didn't get a chance to start playing til late and then it was just getting too late and I gotta be up in the morning. Was still 4 tabling though so still got a good few hands in. 4tabling is a breeze now, might consider moving to 5-6 in the next session or two.

    Despite being a very short session, I still made a decent profit. Was getting a bit worried when I flopped bottom set and had it clicked back to me on the flop and turn, only to see this was how he plays TPTK :p

    Today's Profit: +£9.89
    Monthly Profit: +£9.91


    Had a go at the DYM laddering challenge earlier, got through the 30p and 60p pretty easy, then busted out of the £1.15 in a horrible spot... bit of limping pre I raise it right up to about 7x with AA, 2 callers. QTJ, don't really like the flop and as it's a DYM, I check to see what they do, small bet, I call, next card is another T and gives me a gutshot to the royal flush draw (and obv nut flush draw), river is another T to give me the best FH short of QQ or JJ, but it turns out he called my big raise pre with T9off :(

    Things are on the up in the cash though :)
  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    @ Donk, you say you're wanting to jam it in, then say I should 4bet to around £3 which is as good as a min-re-raise... what possible benefit is there from making that 4bet? If I 4bet jam, I get called by all the hands I don't wanna see, and make all the hands like AQ fold. And if I min-re-raise, I still probably fold out all the hands I wanna see, build a big pot when I have A-high which is likely to not be good here, and am just asking to get jammed on. @ Dazler, you say it's good if he's got a pocket pair, but if he has he's the favourite, then when I call and miss (which I will 2 out of 3 times), he is almost always gonna c-bet after that massive 3bet and I can't call if I miss. On the flip side, if I do hit my card and he has an underpair, chances are I aint gonna get much/anything out of him anyway. Not complaining about the input guys, I'm just explaining my thought process for folding. And yeah Dude I completely agree with you.
    Posted by Lambert180
    if he has pk pair you cant worry about that and fold truth is you dont know, thats why i said prob best to either call or 3 bet to take controll, depends on the texture of the flop so flatting him pre your still saying your strong by calling that amount anyway and you have postion if he has mid pk and over cards come he will prob play it safe and you can c-bet him, see what flop comes out make a decision based on that and if he c-bets you and you have outs for a st8 or you hit the A or K either reraise and if he comes back at you fold. Be brave but be sensible.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    even thinking of folding ak in cash is bad tbh i wouldnt of posted it as u are now saying u are willing to lay down big hands if 3 -bet alot of players would love to sit on your table now like pingu im sure he 3 bet u for fun ;) 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Well there's a number of points here.

    1) I think it's unlikely Pingu is gonna be sitting at my table anytime soon.

    2) Yes it was pretty weak but hence the post/discussion and thus can move forward, so next time someone 3bets me and I have AK, they may not be getting the same response.

    3) I think it's pretty mental to say it's bad to ever consider folding AK in cash. It's completely opponent dependent and in this case, I had no notes and probably should have continued in the hand and got some. Pingu said himself in the thread in the clinic about this hand that he's folded AK pre in similar spots to this before. Am not saying he is 'all knowing' but I think it's pretty silly to say there is anything hand you should never consider folding pre, short of like KK/AA
  • Spad3sSpad3s Member Posts: 269
    edited May 2012
    You can sometimes fold ak, but never at nl10, 100bbs deep, in my opinion.

    Even if his range is only AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AKo...which is the very top of his range, you still win 40 percent of the time against this range.

    If you start adding other hands and air, things look better.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    Thought I'd get a quick session in now. I can't really play the 6-7pm happy hour, cos with the two kids, that's like peak time for dinner/brushing teeth/pyjamas and all that jive. I've been trying to get on for the 11pm-midnight happy hour, and I thought I'd give the 1pm one a go, even though I thought it might be full of people who play 1 hand an hour but play 100 tables...

    Was a bit of a struggle to get on any 10NL at first to be honest, got on a few waiting lists, there were  few I didn't bother with, ones with like 4 regs sat on them and 1 guy with £3. Eventually managed to get up and running with 4 tables. Fairly happy with the session, slightly down in the end, but that was down to a lost flip all in pre for 100BB with JJ (perhaps a bit TOO gambly now lol). So was a BI down from that, but managed to win 3/4 of that back through bits and bobs.

    Today's Profit: -£2.57
    Monthly Profit: +£7.34

    Poker Points: 177

    Will be aiming to get another session in tonight as well, probably sometime around the late night happy hour
  • simonnatursimonnatur Member Posts: 330
    edited May 2012
    Agree with you Lambert, dont think youre doing much wrong folding AK against a lot of regs. I've been in this spot so many times, in say BB with AK against btn raiser - after getting 4-bet and thinking they cant really have AA/KK can they !!!????  but they always do...
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    @Rancid - That hand where you made it 30p, then I made it £1.20, you went £2.55, I flatted IP then you jammed your last £5 on KJx flop, dya mind telling me what you had? I had QQ and couldn't see anything I was beating when you played like that.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    Just got in a nice 2hr session and was 5tabling for the first time (at 10NL). Very up and down, lost a BI early by getting QQ in pre v AA. I got AA in that session literally more times than I can remember but then I was 5tabling so hey ho.

    Today's Profit: -£7.17
    Monthly Profit: +£0.17

    Poker Points: 237


    So I'm up a massive 17p so far, but I've only played about 5-6 sessions and I think I was making some serious mistakes in my first couple of sessions, which I think I've cut out now. At least I'm half way there to getting half a BI in C4P lol.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    @Rancid - That hand where you made it 30p, then I made it £1.20, you went £2.55, I flatted IP then you jammed your last £5 on KJx flop, dya mind telling me what you had? I had QQ and couldn't see anything I was beating when you played like that.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Sorry but I AM not going to say what I had, leave it to your imagination

    But what I will say Paul is, ask yourself why you flat pre - it's a 4 bet by me

    Once you flat a 4 bet and don't have a pot size bet left, you canny fold whatever the flop is

    I 4 bet half my stack Paul, did you not notice that I will not be folding

    It really doesn't matter what I had, maybe you can learn something here m8'ty
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Moon_River Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £11.99
    elpapagal Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £6.02
      Your hole cards        
    Jo_Oxo Call   £0.10 £0.25 £11.13
    rancid Raise   £0.50 £0.75 £10.56
    Lambert180 Raise   £1.50 £2.25 £10.99
    sharky9999 Fold        
    Moon_River Fold        
    elpapagal Fold        
    Jo_Oxo Fold        
    rancid Raise   £5.00 £7.25 £5.56
    Lambert180 Call   £4.00 £11.25 £6.99
    Flop
       
    • K
    • 5
    • J
         
    rancid All-in   £5.56 £16.81 £0.00
    Lambert180 Fold




  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    Cheers Rancid.

    I was thinking of another hand between you and me, where the betting went that way but you folded in that other hand. I hoped you might think I was trying to back at you for the above hand, I had AA I believe, but don't quote me on that.

    Looking back I played the above hand pretty horribly and am probably in for some abuse now lol
  • Spad3sSpad3s Member Posts: 269
    edited May 2012
    Lambert did you call half your stack with QQ, then fold flop.
    Beyond bad.

    If you think youre good go allin, or fold, calling pre cant be an option.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    Lambert did you call half your stack with QQ, then fold flop. Beyond bad. If you think youre good go allin, or fold, calling pre cant be an option.
    Posted by Spad3s
    Yes I know, looking back, I can't believe I did it.

    I should know better... think it was partly cos it was Rancid, but if anything that probably gives me more reason to call. But yeah with the pot size to his remaining stack, it's pretty horrible to fold.
  • JSTFLIPPINJSTFLIPPIN Member Posts: 255
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games:
    In Response to Re: Lambert180 - A Journey Through Cash Games : Yes I know, looking back, I can't believe I did it. I should know better... think it was partly cos it was Rancid, but if anything that probably gives me more reason to call. But yeah with the pot size to his remaining stack, it's pretty horrible to fold.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Taking poker advice from rancid is like taking driving lessons with a blind man
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited May 2012
    monster 4b by rancid clearly had AK lolol
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited May 2012
    can't fold - has to be allin either pre or post flop (maybe just maybe you can fold to a AKx suited flop)

    but don't listen to me - spent last night 5 betting into KK each time - not a good policy
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