Is no1 getting it??? there is no decision if u shove the flop? am i talking to myself??? in the end good fold but it shudnt have got to that stage..... plz explain why im wrong??? (im not btw) Posted by DOHHHHHHH
shoving 5k into a 500 pot on the flop "with a draw" is clearly gonna be a losing play over time and would actually get called quite often as you are basically announcing "i have a flush draw" any pair is good here...that's why you're wrong.
longplay id lurvvvveeee a pair to call me there, i have 2 overs n the nut draw. The opponent HAS to have the pair, then HAS to make the call, and if he does happy days.
longplay id lurvvvveeee a pair to call me there, i have 2 overs n the nut draw. The opponent HAS to have the pair, then HAS to make the call, and if he does happy days. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
but you are only winning 1/10th of your current stack,you would have to win this situation more than 9 times out of ten to be a winning play in the long run.
well we r winnin 9 times outta ten. dnt forget we r raising, they have to call, sets snap it, we have outs.....i dnt see why ur so scared to commit urself to the hand? what more do u want playin ak suited? lol fold it pre? thats the only other option!!
well we r winnin 9 times outta ten. dnt forget we r raising, they have to call, sets snap it, we have outs.....i dnt see why ur so scared to commit urself to the hand? what more do u want playin ak suited? lol fold it pre? thats the only other option!! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
in a deepstack with his stack he played it perfectly,he just happened to run into a loose call and then a nasty turn,it's not about being scared,it simply makes no sense putting 5k into a 500 pot with a drawing hand to increase your stack so little while risking so much,if he had 2k behind instead of 5k then of course he shoves the flop all in.
in a deepstack with his stack he played it perfectly,he just happened to run into a loose call and then a nasty turn,it's not about being scared,it simply makes no sense putting 5k into a 500 pot with a drawing hand to increase your stack so little while risking so much,if he had 2k behind instead of 5k then of course he shoves the flop all in.
loose = bad?
and if he shoved the flop he wins the pot, how can that possibly be a bad play?
in a deepstack with his stack he played it perfectly,he just happened to run into a loose call and then a nasty turn,it's not about being scared,it simply makes no sense putting 5k into a 500 pot with a drawing hand to increase your stack so little while risking so much,if he had 2k behind instead of 5k then of course he shoves the flop all in. loose = bad? and if he shoved the flop he wins the pot, how can that possibly be a bad play? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
loose=iffy
2k to win 500=good increase and defintely a winning play long run. "5k" to win 500-v small increase and a losing play in the long run.
are u just being ignorant or dont u understand? I WANT A CALL! its a win win situation! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
It's you who is being "results" oriented here.
The all-in move only looks good because you know what the opponent's cards are.
Of course, Greg has MASSIVE fold equity but there is absolutely no need to risk his stack here. In most situations he gets exactly the same result with his more subtle (more intelligent) play.
You seem to be unaware (or unwilling to accept) that, in a deepstack, there is no need to risk your tournament with marginal plays.
Even with the given hands, Greg is only 47% to win after the flop. During the course of a deepstack there are almost certainly going to be several better spots for getting your chips in.
If Greg's opponent has a set (or even two pair) it's a snap call and Greg is drawing very thin - he would be 3/1 dog against a set, for instance.
In a turbo MTT, I would be shoving with the AK every day of the week, in a deepstack it is a VERY poor play.
are u just being ignorant or dont u understand? I WANT A CALL! its a win win situation! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Dohhh,
The key to a deepie is to NOT go all in on level 2 without a stronger hand than top pair.
Gregghogg is one of the most consistant players on this site and truly knows what he is doing with regards to this type of event.
Deepies can last 4 hours, why risk it all after 15 minutes?
They play like no other type of tournament and you always see the same names on the final table. This is no coincidence and you need to lose the 'open' mentality of push push push to succeed there.
If I had to bankroll a player to play a deepie, Gregg would be one of the best options I could have.
Well, next to the Orford! But you know what they say, the exception proves the rule.
It is very hard to understand the thought processes that go through some peoples mind. The deepstack takes a long time to get through and a large proportion of hands consist of preflop raise and everybody folds.
Why would anyone even consider that a fold is anything but the right play. Even if the opponent is bluffing there is so much time left and more than enough chips left to come good. A call with top pair top kicker and a draw would be a losing play over time.
The deepstack is a tourny where you can justify folding every hand for the first hour. If you do that you will still have a competitive stack and can move up the gears in hour 2. Some people still believe that throwing chips over the line is good. The tourny can not be won at this stage, only lost.
Great fold Greg, nice to see an intelligent post about intelligent play. More great plays like that and more tourny victories will come your way, well done.
Well played greg, not so sure its great fold becuase it is the right fold and you should be doing this everytime in that situation at that time in the tourny.
Well played Gregg. Good win.....very good win. I am not sure about the fold but will not get into the 'great debate' going on about it on here!. What i will say is that in the other deepie last nite i got crippled with AK v A5!!! and again in the £1500 b/h with the same cards!!.
So i think you may be the 1st sky poker player to crack the unwritten code.....
AK.......you never win WITH it but always LOSE against it. Go figure ....and see my thread about it in area51.
Excellently done Greg, I like the way that you played the player and not the cards.
Its a shame that some people who dont play the deepstacks can't understand that in the early stages its not worth risking your entire tournament on one hand.
DOHHHH Why dont you play in the £22 deepstack if your so great!?!?! The same players play in it day in day out, you learn alot about how every player plays, mabsue and greg would of played together loads, and know each others game inside out. Enter the £22 deepie and see how you get on
Comments
loose = bad?
and if he shoved the flop he wins the pot, how can that possibly be a bad play?
2k to win 500=good increase and defintely a winning play long run.
"5k" to win 500-v small increase and a losing play in the long run.
seeya,it's late.
The all-in move only looks good because you know what the opponent's cards are.
Of course, Greg has MASSIVE fold equity but there is absolutely no need to risk his stack here. In most situations he gets exactly the same result with his more subtle (more intelligent) play.
You seem to be unaware (or unwilling to accept) that, in a deepstack, there is no need to risk your tournament with marginal plays.
Even with the given hands, Greg is only 47% to win after the flop. During the course of a deepstack there are almost certainly going to be several better spots for getting your chips in.
If Greg's opponent has a set (or even two pair) it's a snap call and Greg is drawing very thin - he would be 3/1 dog against a set, for instance.
In a turbo MTT, I would be shoving with the AK every day of the week, in a deepstack it is a VERY poor play.
Now, do you understand?
To open ship the turn is also the LOLest of LOL things in LOLsville.
The key to a deepie is to NOT go all in on level 2 without a stronger hand than top pair.
Gregghogg is one of the most consistant players on this site and truly knows what he is doing with regards to this type of event.
Deepies can last 4 hours, why risk it all after 15 minutes?
They play like no other type of tournament and you always see the same names on the final table. This is no coincidence and you need to lose the 'open' mentality of push push push to succeed there.
If I had to bankroll a player to play a deepie, Gregg would be one of the best options I could have.
Well, next to the Orford! But you know what they say, the exception proves the rule.
Why would anyone even consider that a fold is anything but the right play. Even if the opponent is bluffing there is so much time left and more than enough chips left to come good. A call with top pair top kicker and a draw would be a losing play over time.
The deepstack is a tourny where you can justify folding every hand for the first hour. If you do that you will still have a competitive stack and can move up the gears in hour 2. Some people still believe that throwing chips over the line is good. The tourny can not be won at this stage, only lost.
Great fold Greg, nice to see an intelligent post about intelligent play. More great plays like that and more tourny victories will come your way, well done.
What a great fold,and really well done for wining it, what a great night woooo hooooo
Tough table
xxx
Well done on winning it once again.
Well played Gregg. Good win.....very good win. I am not sure about the fold but will not get into the 'great debate' going on about it on here!. What i will say is that in the other deepie last nite i got crippled with AK v A5!!! and again in the £1500 b/h with the same cards!!.
So i think you may be the 1st sky poker player to crack the unwritten code.....
AK.......you never win WITH it but always LOSE against it. Go figure
....and see my thread about it in area51.
Its a shame that some people who dont play the deepstacks can't understand that in the early stages its not worth risking your entire tournament on one hand.