I think this is good fold in terms of the stage of the tornament, but an even better fold in terms of his read of his opponent.
This for me highlights the difference in ability amonst players on sky. I know I am not good enough to put people on hands, so basically play the cards, not the person. Greg plays both, and wins the tournament.
I also think this thread would be better served in the strategy section.
Excellently done Greg, I like the way that you played the player and not the cards. Its a shame that some people who dont play the deepstacks can't understand that in the early stages its not worth risking your entire tournament on one hand. Posted by Kiwini4u
This is the key i think, there are many things you have to factor in when making a decision in a hand (rather quickly) but sometimes things just feel right and you know the player isn't doing that with rubbish..(if he is fair play!) So it was an insta fold, i actually typed in the chat box so you have 2 pair then... (KJ) i thought, and Mark kindly showed K9.
Then when i went on to win i remembered this hand and thought that people might find the hand interesting because to many it would seem like a call. (im sure a few months back id have called) I just wanted to explain why calling here was not on my mind and why deepstacks are a different kind of poker to the faster structured mtts we have become accustomed to on Sky.
I think this is a great time to reflect on how far we have actually come, as a forum, and as a site together with the excellent current range of deepstacks on offer at all buyins and the fact that the standard tourneys have great blind structures now (even the BH's which are NOT my speciality lol) The deepstacks have really improved my game and i would encourage anyone who has not tried playing this style of poker to give it a go, you might like it...
tikay started to get the interest in deepstacks going on this site and did a great deal of work to get this moving as did all the behind the scenes people at Sky. Barry and many others have promoted and stayed loyal to the deepstacks and i believe we are now thriving as a site with a lot of very good poker being played. I cant see me playing elsewhere regularly, because quite frankly i cant get what sky poker offers anywhere else!
Thanks to every one for their feedback and comments it is most appreciated
A truly brilliant thread (and a mighty dignified response), Gregg. Thanks for sharing.
...And a very good point about deep stacks being an excellent discipline for improving your overall game, I couldn't agree more: You're not thinking about the cash that's being won or lost, you're only thinking about gradually accumulating 'units' over the long haul; you're aware of the lengthy structure ahead of you, so patience and stamina come in to play, Deepies tend to make you think and question so much more, and as a result your experience and wits improve... etc.
I love them and could go on gushing for hours, but you've made the point so well already.
well im the best player in the world believe it or not. im right u r all wrong. unless u agree with me. never ever folding there who cares wat the blind structure is? move in, he folds, n u win the tourny. simples dohh Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Ok doughnut, why push 2/3 of your stack into a 3/1 shot when blinds are so low, this would be ok for a scary or late on when blinds are big or you are short stacked, but nothing wrong with the play me thinks
nice fold gregg ,congrats on your win too m8 ,have seen a few of your hand history s in recent weeks gregg ........jeeeeeezzzzzzzzz u dont half come across as a solid rock lol ...........any1 else agree ?????gregg the rock ... n1 m8 lol ten
nice fold gregg ,congrats on your win too m8 ,have seen a few of your hand history s in recent weeks gregg ........jeeeeeezzzzzzzzz u dont half come across as a solid rock lol ...........any1 else agree ?????gregg the rock ... n1 m8 lol ten Posted by TENOFSPADE
Thanks Tenof, Hmmm maybe thats the image i try to portray, believe me, i have my donkey moments too!
In Response to Re: Why folding is the key to winning deepstacks... : Thanks Tenof, Hmmm maybe thats the image i try to portray, believe me, i have my donkey moments too! Posted by GREGHOGG
yes but no one knows them cos everyone respects you and insta folds.
im so bad at 'deepstacks' live last night at 50/100 with a 9k stack. Mp raises to 500, I re-raise to 1350 and he insta AI. i snap with AKcc with like 90bb w tf im such a fish ofc he had KK.
In Response to Re: Why folding is the key to winning deepstacks... : yes but no one knows them cos everyone respects you and insta folds. im so bad at 'deepstacks' live last night at 50/100 with a 9k stack. Mp raises to 500, I re-raise to 1350 and he insta AI. i snap with AKcc with like 90bb w tf im such a fish ofc he had KK. i need to be a nit so badddddddddd Posted by scotty77
Not always true, Oh and if thats the case how do i get paid?
Great thread - & it shows the divide in thinking between old school - "Tournament life is EVERYTHING" - & new school - "don't worry, there's another Tourney about to start".
And in my experience, one school goes busto - proper busto - & the other does not.
It is very hard to understand the thought processes that go through some peoples mind. The deepstack takes a long time to get through and a large proportion of hands consist of preflop raise and everybody folds. Why would anyone even consider that a fold is anything but the right play. Even if the opponent is bluffing there is so much time left and more than enough chips left to come good. A call with top pair top kicker and a draw would be a losing play over time. The deepstack is a tourny where you can justify folding every hand for the first hour. If you do that you will still have a competitive stack and can move up the gears in hour 2. Some people still believe that throwing chips over the line is good. The tourny can not be won at this stage, only lost. Great fold Greg, nice to see an intelligent post about intelligent play. More great plays like that and more tourny victories will come your way, well done. Posted by Talon
A truly brilliant thread (and a mighty dignified response), Gregg. Thanks for sharing. ...And a very good point about deep stacks being an excellent discipline for improving your overall game, I couldn't agree more: You're not thinking about the cash that's being won or lost, you're only thinking about gradually accumulating 'units' over the long haul; you're aware of the lengthy structure ahead of you, so patience and stamina come in to play, Deepies tend to make you think and question so much more, and as a result your experience and wits improve... etc. I love them and could go on gushing for hours, but you've made the point so well already. Posted by FlutNush
And my other bestest reply.
A shame the Thread was tanted by some brusque & ill-mannered comments though. We are all entitled to our different opinions & should not have to be belittled because others disagree.
Very well done Greg. I know you are a very solid and tight player who can put people on hands and bet or fold accordingly. I must start playing more deep stack games to help improve my game.
Heyyyyy, As for the deepstack 'challenge' alot of you have issued throughout this post.....
I would love to come and play you all but there are a couple of reasons why I cant/chose not to, You might be able to help me.
Since starting to play properly/reguarly on skypoker, I've noticed that when multi-tabling, the tables stick/go slow and often I am half way through my thinking time when my screen shows its my turn to act. (cost me a few quid until i decided it just wasnt gonna work) I have never had this problem before on my old poker site, and regulary played 3/4 tables (normally 2 6 handed cash tables, and an mtt with a steady structure)
As I struggle to play 2 tables, and am mainly a cash game player (95% cash, 5% tourny), I like to focus on 2 cash tables as this is the best way for me to make money, which is ultimately my aim. I know alot of people priotirise enjoyment but the most enjoyable part of the game for me is winning,
Any ideas what I could do to speed things up?
As for the deepstack game in genral, like you said it takes 3/4 hours to reach a decent cash, which I could make in half an hour If I have a good session on a cash table. (maybe be even x2 if I run good on both)
Back to the origonal example, big tip for ya if you see me in the future, im never laying that hand down if im trying to win the tourny (never play to do anything else, cashing isnt the aim) so if you have me beat, bet out, n we;ll get it in and see what happens gl to ya.
P.s, someone asked where I play, 25/50p cash tables, 3pm onwards mondays wednesdays fridays and saturdays. Working up to a bankroll to move to 50p/100p, nedarly there I think, question....what do u guyz think I wud need as a bankroll to play there? opinions greatfully recieved!
It seems from reading this thread that certain people don't understand the deep stack mantra. That was a great fold, and just goes to show that knowing your opponent is a big factor of winning in the long run.
Comments
I think this is good fold in terms of the stage of the tornament, but an even better fold in terms of his read of his opponent.
This for me highlights the difference in ability amonst players on sky. I know I am not good enough to put people on hands, so basically play the cards, not the person. Greg plays both, and wins the tournament.
I also think this thread would be better served in the strategy section.
ray
Then when i went on to win i remembered this hand and thought that people might find the hand interesting because to many it would seem like a call. (im sure a few months back id have called) I just wanted to explain why calling here was not on my mind and why deepstacks are a different kind of poker to the faster structured mtts we have become accustomed to on Sky.
I think this is a great time to reflect on how far we have actually come, as a forum, and as a site together with the excellent current range of deepstacks on offer at all buyins and the fact that the standard tourneys have great blind structures now (even the BH's which are NOT my speciality lol) The deepstacks have really improved my game and i would encourage anyone who has not tried playing this style of poker to give it a go, you might like it...
tikay started to get the interest in deepstacks going on this site and did a great deal of work to get this moving as did all the behind the scenes people at Sky. Barry and many others have promoted and stayed loyal to the deepstacks and i believe we are now thriving as a site with a lot of very good poker being played. I cant see me playing elsewhere regularly, because quite frankly i cant get what sky poker offers anywhere else!
Thanks to every one for their feedback and comments it is most appreciated
Greg
Try them Dohhhh, you may like them and you certainly will learn that poker is more than one move.
i invite you to joins us tonight in the 8.15 deepstack,
it will cost you a fiver,
for a man of your skill ,
should not be a problem ,
we are shaking in our boots,
oh please show us that you are not all mouth .
nice fold gregg ,congrats on your win too m8 ,have seen a few of your hand history s in recent weeks gregg ........jeeeeeezzzzzzzzz u dont half come across as a solid rock lol ...........any1 else agree ?????gregg the rock ... n1 m8 lol ten
im so bad at 'deepstacks' live last night at 50/100 with a 9k stack. Mp raises to 500, I re-raise to 1350 and he insta AI. i snap with AKcc with like 90bb w tf im such a fish ofc he had KK.
i need to be a nit so badddddddddd
EDIT: didn't read thread, If you guys have sick history then it's w/e
I have plenty of people gunning for me too!
Great thread - & it shows the divide in thinking between old school - "Tournament life is EVERYTHING" - & new school - "don't worry, there's another Tourney about to start".
And in my experience, one school goes busto - proper busto - & the other does not.
A shame the Thread was tanted by some brusque & ill-mannered comments though. We are all entitled to our different opinions & should not have to be belittled because others disagree.
I know you are a very solid and tight player who can put people on hands and bet or fold accordingly.
I must start playing more deep stack games to help improve my game.
Heyyyyy, As for the deepstack 'challenge' alot of you have issued throughout this post.....
I would love to come and play you all but there are a couple of reasons why I cant/chose not to, You might be able to help me.
Since starting to play properly/reguarly on skypoker, I've noticed that when multi-tabling, the tables stick/go slow and often I am half way through my thinking time when my screen shows its my turn to act. (cost me a few quid until i decided it just wasnt gonna work)
I have never had this problem before on my old poker site, and regulary played 3/4 tables (normally 2 6 handed cash tables, and an mtt with a steady structure)
As I struggle to play 2 tables, and am mainly a cash game player (95% cash, 5% tourny), I like to focus on 2 cash tables as this is the best way for me to make money, which is ultimately my aim. I know alot of people priotirise enjoyment but the most enjoyable part of the game for me is winning,
Any ideas what I could do to speed things up?
As for the deepstack game in genral, like you said it takes 3/4 hours to reach a decent cash, which I could make in half an hour If I have a good session on a cash table. (maybe be even x2 if I run good on both)
Back to the origonal example, big tip for ya if you see me in the future, im never laying that hand down if im trying to win the tourny (never play to do anything else, cashing isnt the aim) so if you have me beat, bet out, n we;ll get it in and see what happens
P.s, someone asked where I play, 25/50p cash tables, 3pm onwards mondays wednesdays fridays and saturdays. Working up to a bankroll to move to 50p/100p, nedarly there I think, question....what do u guyz think I wud need as a bankroll to play there? opinions greatfully recieved!
DOHHH