Greg - quality fold and shows the difference between the players and plays in the decent structures against some of the 'faster' games. Also, very well done for the win m8......pleased for ya
Anyone who advocates the shoving really has been brought up on the bounty hunter style of play and should really either stick to them or come and rail the deepstacks and watch and learn the finer points of poker!
Heyyyyy, As for the deepstack 'challenge' alot of you have issued throughout this post..... I would love to come and play you all but there are a couple of reasons why I cant/chose not to, You might be able to help me. Since starting to play properly/reguarly on skypoker, I've noticed that when multi-tabling, the tables stick/go slow and often I am half way through my thinking time when my screen shows its my turn to act. (cost me a few quid until i decided it just wasnt gonna work) I have never had this problem before on my old poker site, and regulary played 3/4 tables (normally 2 6 handed cash tables, and an mtt with a steady structure) As I struggle to play 2 tables, and am mainly a cash game player (95% cash, 5% tourny), I like to focus on 2 cash tables as this is the best way for me to make money, which is ultimately my aim. I know alot of people priotirise enjoyment but the most enjoyable part of the game for me is winning, Any ideas what I could do to speed things up? As for the deepstack game in genral, like you said it takes 3/4 hours to reach a decent cash, which I could make in half an hour If I have a good session on a cash table. (maybe be even x2 if I run good on both) Back to the origonal example, big tip for ya if you see me in the future, im never laying that hand down if im trying to win the tourny (never play to do anything else, cashing isnt the aim) so if you have me beat, bet out, n we;ll get it in and see what happens gl to ya. P.s, someone asked where I play, 25/50p cash tables, 3pm onwards mondays wednesdays fridays and saturdays. Working up to a bankroll to move to 50p/100p, nedarly there I think, question....what do u guyz think I wud need as a bankroll to play there? opinions greatfully recieved! DOHHH Posted by DOHHHHHHH
So there we have it.
This is a thread about tournament play, started by a successful Tournament player, who's always had a good record on Sky Poker, & qualified for Vegas with Sky Poker & did us proud out there. In his wisdom, he made a fold, because he understands deepstack tournament play. His record proves that, beyond doubt.
And you have made about 10 Posts on this thread, most of them extremely "forceful" & citing very strong opinions, including suggesting those who don't agree with you are, & I quote, "ignorant", which seemed rather un-necessary imo.
And you are a cash-player, and only 5% of your play is in Tourneys.
I think a little more tolerance of other peoples views, and perhaps debating less aggressively, might earn you the respect I'm sure you richly deseve.
Although I don't play alot of tournys, I'm a winning tourny player, and im sure ull agree playing deepstacks is alot like playing cash games anyway. This doesnt make aggression any less effective the idea is still to get the other blokes chips. If people are gonna roll over and fold huge hands like that, then its gonna make my style even more effecitve.
As ya can see the fields ive got through to make those cashes are large, and the tournys ran for ages, so I have the game to compete and win at deepstak tournys.
By the way has anyone any ideas why i have problems multi tabling? has anyone had any similar problems with connection speeds on here? When it comes to IT im rubbish.
Is it really necessary to describe other Posters as "ignorant" because they hold a different view to you?
PS - Nice Stats by the way, assuming you have only played 3 Tourneys.
You got very angry because most people opposed your view. If you wanted their agreement, & you clearly did, as we could see the steam emenating from your ears from here, it's maybe better not to get quite so aggro with them.
I get the same problem when I am multi-tabling. When I asked cuctomer services about it, I was told it is something you get with a wireless connection and to go to a hardwire connection. Also switching to mozilla firefox can help some people.
Haha I've played a few more! Was just a post to prove im not a complete tourny/deepstack novice, and to answer the people who have suggested i take part in the deepstacks to try and 'learn'. I'm sure my tourny stats on sky poker are in the positive too, but its early days here.
I dont neccesserily want people to agree with me, i'm just so adamant that i'm right. And sometimes it is annoying that I seem to be the only one who thinks I am I suppose! haha
If im not sure about something, I will ask, (bankrolls, internet connection speeds, firefox?? etc.) Otherwise, my way is the only way! (in my mind) haha
Thanx for the reply from the fella about my connection speeds, I think its best if I just contact sky and have them talk me through it, I don't really understand alot of what you said, but ill take note and ask them. So frustrating not being able to multi table .
DOHH the thing to remember is that in poker with the exception of calling an all-in with the stone cold nuts, there are NO definite rights or wrongs. Everyhand ever played could be debated and taken apart and several different ways of playing it would come out. The only thing we can do on each hand is play it the best way we can whether it be fold call or raise. If we make decisions that we believe are right then we can be happy with our play. You obviously have a very aggressive style of play and believe that is best for you. That is fine but other players are more cautious in their approach. It does not make them wrong it makes them different.
The deepstack actually favours the more cautious player as the over agressive players find themselves getting trapped and getting outplaed.
The measure of the greatness of a player is not how aggressive or cautious they are but how they can adapt to the situation they are in.
I understand, and guess what actually 'agree' with alot of your comments. However, I disagree(kinda) with you saying there is no right or wrong way. There must be an 'optimum play' to win over a period of time, and although circumstances change alot, espoecially in tourny poker (not so much in deepstacks) I'm sure the aggressive way is aways the right way.
" The deepstack actually favours the more cautious player as the over agressive players find themselves getting trapped and getting outplayed."
Huggggely disagree with this comment, maybe the word 'over' before the second adjective aggressive makes it slightly more valid, but still over aggression is better than being overly cautious when trying to whin a tourny. (I assume thats everyones aim)
I'm gonna have to play one of these deepstacks, can anyone tell me when there is one with the biggest field? buy in between 10-30 quid ish? Ive seen them in tghe lobby but never taken much notice. Sky can put a bounty on my head Haha
There is a £22 deepstack at 7:30pm every evening. This usually has a small field but I suspect that if you entered it would boost the numbers significantly. I'm sure that SkyPoker would love you to enter. ;-)
HAHA maybe they shud put me in free of charge, everyones a winner then. Im playing cash from now (in bout 20 mins) until whenever, so ill see how it goes! thanx for the info m8! might see cya there
(cash low stakes for half hour-ish then 25p/50p, spose some of u still class that as low!)
well its an auto all in, fact. explanation read, digested, understood. just shove it in on the flop u take the pot down. stop being result orientated, so frustrating. dohh Posted by DOHHHHHHH
ive found just shoving it on the flop will not get rid of most online players with 2nd pair,who then go on to suck out on me/you
A number of members of the forum have criticised you for the way you have argued your point in the forum threads, including myself. But the way you have replied to talon's post is far more respectful so that even though you disagree with his ideas, you have argued your perspective in a reasoned manner.
Is this a new improved dohhhhh, and if so long may it continue, as you are clearly a good player, and will have plenty to offer the forum mate.
In Response to Re: Why folding is the key to winning deepstacks... : ive found just shoving it on the flop will not get rid of most online players with 2nd pair,who then go on to suck out on me/you Posted by DAVEYZZ
TOTALLY AGREE , I ONLY PLAY THE LOW BUY IN DEEP STACKS . HOW OFTEN HAVE I SEEN PEOPLE IN THOSE EVEN CALL WITH AIR AND HIT RUNNER RUNNER .
In Response to Re: Why folding is the key to winning deepstacks... : ive found just shoving it on the flop will not get rid of most online players with 2nd pair,who then go on to suck out on me/you Posted by DAVEYZZ
More to the point is that you would be (marginally) behind here even if called by 2nd pair so it wouldn't be a suck-out by any means. The hands that are likely to call your all-in are crushing the AsKs. People playing deepstacks know that they will get much better opportunities during the course of the tournament. There is absolutely no need to gamble your stack in the hope that your opponent has a weak enough hand to fold. It's a pretty simple thought process really.
The point is, if u get called by the nuts, u still have lots of outs to win anyway. And the If is a huge if. The way people seem to treat this tourny, as its got the word 'deep' before its name, I wouldnt be surprised if someone folded top set in this example to not risk geting out drawn by the flush! Just coz it normally takes hours doesnt mean it has to everytime neccesserily. Far fetched example but i hope the genral point has got accross. Bound to get the absolute nuts in 5 hours, I guess this is what uze r waiting for?
The point is, if u get called by the nuts, u still have lots of outs to win anyway. And the If is a huge if. The way people seem to treat this tourny, as its got the word 'deep' before its name, I wouldnt be surprised if someone folded top set in this example to not risk geting out drawn by the flush! Just coz it normally takes hours doesnt mean it has to everytime neccesserily. Far fetched example but i hope the genral point has got accross. Bound to get the absolute nuts in 5 hours, I guess this is what uze r waiting for? DOHH Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Your general point does not fit this particular instance. You seem to insist on a specific, narrow dogma that does not suit the dynamics of this hand or tournament. Although aggression is generally the optimal tactic over time, it is the WRONG play here simply because if you get called you are most likely crushed. Any set or two pair will call you. If you get called by any pair you are a slight underdog. Going all-in on the flop is not optimal strategy here - not even close to it. If you want to debate this further (and I'm happy to do so) PM me - we've got to the point where everyone else must be extremely bored by now.
Comments
Greg - quality fold and shows the difference between the players and plays in the decent structures against some of the 'faster' games. Also, very well done for the win m8......pleased for ya
Anyone who advocates the shoving really has been brought up on the bounty hunter style of play and should really either stick to them or come and rail the deepstacks and watch and learn the finer points of poker!
This is a thread about tournament play, started by a successful Tournament player, who's always had a good record on Sky Poker, & qualified for Vegas with Sky Poker & did us proud out there. In his wisdom, he made a fold, because he understands deepstack tournament play. His record proves that, beyond doubt.
And you have made about 10 Posts on this thread, most of them extremely "forceful" & citing very strong opinions, including suggesting those who don't agree with you are, & I quote, "ignorant", which seemed rather un-necessary imo.
And you are a cash-player, and only 5% of your play is in Tourneys.
I think a little more tolerance of other peoples views, and perhaps debating less aggressively, might earn you the respect I'm sure you richly deseve.
Although I don't play alot of tournys, I'm a winning tourny player, and im sure ull agree playing deepstacks is alot like playing cash games anyway. This doesnt make aggression any less effective the idea is still to get the other blokes chips. If people are gonna roll over and fold huge hands like that, then its gonna make my style even more effecitve.
As ya can see the fields ive got through to make those cashes are large, and the tournys ran for ages, so I have the game to compete and win at deepstak tournys.
By the way has anyone any ideas why i have problems multi tabling? has anyone had any similar problems with connection speeds on here? When it comes to IT im rubbish.
Thanx, DOHH
Misses the point DOHx7.
Is it really necessary to describe other Posters as "ignorant" because they hold a different view to you?
PS - Nice Stats by the way, assuming you have only played 3 Tourneys.
You got very angry because most people opposed your view. If you wanted their agreement, & you clearly did, as we could see the steam emenating from your ears from here, it's maybe better not to get quite so aggro with them.
When I asked cuctomer services about it, I was told it is something you get with a wireless connection and to go to a hardwire connection.
Also switching to mozilla firefox can help some people.
My connection is much improved after switching to Firefox, too.
Haha I've played a few more! Was just a post to prove im not a complete tourny/deepstack novice, and to answer the people who have suggested i take part in the deepstacks to try and 'learn'. I'm sure my tourny stats on sky poker are in the positive too, but its early days here.
I dont neccesserily want people to agree with me, i'm just so adamant that i'm right. And sometimes it is annoying that I seem to be the only one who thinks I am I suppose! haha
If im not sure about something, I will ask, (bankrolls, internet connection speeds, firefox?? etc.) Otherwise, my way is the only way! (in my mind) haha
Thanx for the reply from the fella about my connection speeds, I think its best if I just contact sky and have them talk me through it, I don't really understand alot of what you said, but ill take note and ask them. So frustrating not being able to multi table
Thanx again, DOHH
Everyhand ever played could be debated and taken apart and several different ways of playing it would come out. The only thing we can do on each hand is play it the best way we can whether it be fold call or raise. If we make decisions that we believe are right then we can be happy with our play. You obviously have a very aggressive style of play and believe that is best for you. That is fine but other players are more cautious in their approach. It does not make them wrong it makes them different.
The deepstack actually favours the more cautious player as the over agressive players find themselves getting trapped and getting outplaed.
The measure of the greatness of a player is not how aggressive or cautious they are but how they can adapt to the situation they are in.
MY ALLTIME FAV. THREAD IN THIS FORUM . SOME WONDERFUL POSTS ON HERE . CONGRATS ON YOUR WIN GREGG AND A GREAT FOLD .
R.E Talon,
I understand, and guess what actually 'agree' with alot of your comments. However, I disagree(kinda) with you saying there is no right or wrong way. There must be an 'optimum play' to win over a period of time, and although circumstances change alot, espoecially in tourny poker (not so much in deepstacks) I'm sure the aggressive way is aways the right way.
" The deepstack actually favours the more cautious player as the over agressive players find themselves getting trapped and getting outplayed."
Huggggely disagree with this comment, maybe the word 'over' before the second adjective aggressive makes it slightly more valid, but still over aggression is better than being overly cautious when trying to whin a tourny. (I assume thats everyones aim)
I'm gonna have to play one of these deepstacks, can anyone tell me when there is one with the biggest field? buy in between 10-30 quid ish? Ive seen them in tghe lobby but never taken much notice. Sky can put a bounty on my head
DOHH
This usually has a small field but I suspect that if you entered it would boost the numbers significantly.
I'm sure that SkyPoker would love you to enter. ;-)
HAHA maybe they shud put me in free of charge, everyones a winner then. Im playing cash from now (in bout 20 mins) until whenever, so ill see how it goes! thanx for the info m8! might see cya there
(cash low stakes for half hour-ish then 25p/50p, spose some of u still class that as low!)
DOHH
A number of members of the forum have criticised you for the way you have argued your point in the forum threads, including myself. But the way you have replied to talon's post is far more respectful so that even though you disagree with his ideas, you have argued your perspective in a reasoned manner.
Is this a new improved dohhhhh, and if so long may it continue, as you are clearly a good player, and will have plenty to offer the forum mate.
Ray
The hands that are likely to call your all-in are crushing the AsKs.
People playing deepstacks know that they will get much better opportunities during the course of the tournament.
There is absolutely no need to gamble your stack in the hope that your opponent has a weak enough hand to fold.
It's a pretty simple thought process really.
The point is, if u get called by the nuts, u still have lots of outs to win anyway. And the If is a huge if. The way people seem to treat this tourny, as its got the word 'deep' before its name, I wouldnt be surprised if someone folded top set in this example to not risk geting out drawn by the flush! Just coz it normally takes hours doesnt mean it has to everytime neccesserily. Far fetched example but i hope the genral point has got accross. Bound to get the absolute nuts in 5 hours, I guess this is what uze r waiting for?
DOHH
You seem to insist on a specific, narrow dogma that does not suit the dynamics of this hand or tournament.
Although aggression is generally the optimal tactic over time, it is the WRONG play here simply because if you get called you are most likely crushed. Any set or two pair will call you. If you get called by any pair you are a slight underdog. Going all-in on the flop is not optimal strategy here - not even close to it.
If you want to debate this further (and I'm happy to do so) PM me - we've got to the point where everyone else must be extremely bored by now.